Of Tigers & Leopards. Garfiel Tinsel Vs Rob Lucci

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

another thing: since OP hasn't specified a starting distance, this is under SBA, meaning they start 100s of meters apart (since Lucci's maximum range is that)

This is true. SBA starting distance.

 

[Nierre]

That was before using his six powers abilities just to fight normal against luffy, he has no reason to do that against this enemy

That means he starts fights without using his Rokushiki. You'd have to prove otherwise.

You can't just say "Lucci has no reason to do that against the enemy" when if anything Lucci would've used it against Luffy seeing how he's literally a criminal, a worse target and enemy to him AND THE GOVERNMENT, than Garfiel is.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

That means he starts fights without using his Rokushiki. You'd have to prove otherwise.

You can't just say "Lucci has no reason to do that against the enemy" when if anything Lucci would've used it against Luffy seeing how he's literally a criminal, a worse target and enemy to him AND THE GOVERNMENT, than Garfiel is.

Stop misconstruing the events, he clearly did not use his abilities to distract luffy from going after robin

 

[Nierre]

Stop misconstruing the events, he clearly did not use his abilities to distract luffy from going after robin

???? what??

I'm literally going page by page, chapter by chapter. If Lucci wanted to stop/distract Luffy, he would've just blitzed Luffy with Soru every time to permanently stop him. That's way more effective than actively taking damage and clashing with him.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

after luffy ignored him did he start using his Rokushiki abilities

 

[Nierre]

im so confused on how my point is not being understood.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

???? what??

I'm literally going page by page, chapter by chapter. If Lucci wanted to stop/distract Luffy, he would've just blitzed Luffy with Soru every time to permanently stop him. That's way more effective than actively taking damage and clashing with him.

What you believe literally doesn't matter against what Lucci actually did

He faught with him in base with no abilities and once luffy ignored him and try to go after Robin, he stopped him and started to not hold back

 

[Nierre]

What you believe literally doesn't matter against what Lucci actually did

He faught with him in base with no abilities and once luffy ignored him and try to go after Robin, he stopped him and started to not hold back

So what did Lucci actually do.

held back

ok. so why wouldn't he do so here.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

So what did Lucci actually do.

ok. so why wouldn't he do so here.

because he's not there to distract/stop his opponent? He's there to kill him?

 

[Nierre]

because he's not there to distract/stop his opponent? He's there to kill him?

He's there to stop and arrest Luffy, something he can only do if he beats Luffy.
He's here so he can fight and defeat Garfiel, something he can only do if he beats Garfiel.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

I think the transformation debate is really silly now Icl.

Garfeil beating Lucci before he can transform relies on:

1) Lucci not realizing Garfeil is a major threat BEFORE Garfiel lands a solid hit on him. Keep in mind SBA distance means Lucci would already have a chance to test Garfiel power by using Rankyaku, and the fact that Garfiel's fighting spirit has a threatening aura that already raises the likelihood of Lucci deciding to transform.

2) Lucci being effectively stunlocked once Garfiel hits him, to the point that, despite being equal in speed, he can't get off ANY technique to get away. Despite Tekkai having no prepatory motions, and Zoan transformations being thought-based.

Is this a win-con? Sure. But it's really weird to bank literally your entire argument on it lol, I don't think it's that likely.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This is literally the first interaction and he did not held back, when he was going to kill luffy he literally straight up just used soru to kill him

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

He's there to stop and arrest Luffy, something he can only do if he beats Luffy.
He's here so he can fight and defeat Garfiel, something he can only do if he beats Garfiel.

This is literally the first interaction and he did not held back, when he was going to kill luffy he literally straight up just used soru to kill him

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Tbf Lucci already knew that Luffy was no threat to him in base, and had no knowledge of Gears that would kick his ass being a thing because he had just kicked everyone's asses a few chapters ago...by transforming against a Luffy who couldn't lay a finger on him in base either. I think he knew that Luffy had a more or less quote-even-unquote fight against Blueno but that was it.

Garfiel has an aura that screams how much of bad news he is. There's also no reason Lucci wouldn't be able to realize that he both can keep up with him and is hitting harder.

In the absence of prior, outdated intel that says low power level, kick his ass, initial distance, speed equal and amps there's nothing to say that Lucci doesn't get the literal minimum time that he needs the fight to extend through to transform. Or that he doesn't just go yolo and transforms right off the bat anyways for the heck of it.

 

[Nierre]

This is literally the first interaction and he did not held back, when he was going to kill luffy he literally straight up just used soru to kill him

ur literally proving my point

he blocked luffy's attack and tanked it with tekkai before blitzing with Soru

If he tries to block Garfiel's attack he will literally break his hand in an attempt to do so

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

ur literally proving my point

he blocked luffy's attack and tanked it with tekkai before blitzing with Soru

If he tries to block Garfiel's attack he will literally break his hand in an attempt to do so

Because he's stronger than luffy? If there's an attack that will damage him, he'll try to dodge with soru...

 

[Nierre]

1) Lucci not realizing Garfeil is a major threat BEFORE Garfiel lands a solid hit on him. Keep in mind SBA distance means Lucci would already have a chance to test Garfiel power by using Rankyaku, and the fact that Garfiel's fighting spirit has a threatening aura that already raises the likelihood of Lucci deciding to transform.

Good point on the aura. That does bring my analysis of the fight into more question, because even more so Lucci with his Zoan senses would definitely feel threatened by his aura.

Lucci being effectively stunlocked once Garfiel hits him, to the point that, despite being equal in speed, he can't get off ANY technique to get away. Despite Tekkai having no prepatory motions, and Zoan transformations being thought-based.

Err, in speed equal with a 5x ap gap you are DEFINITELY getting stun locked the **** LOL

 

[Nierre]

Because he's stronger that luffy? If there's an attack that will damage him, he'll try to dodge with soru...

He's not stronger, he's equally matched to Luffy and the profile literally states it as such.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

He's not stronger, he's equally matched to Luffy and the profile literally states it as such.

after luffy got stronger... Stop twisting shit

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Err, in speed equal with a 5x ap gap you are DEFINITELY getting stun locked the **** LOL

"Lol" is crazy considering how flimsy your argument has been this whole time, icl.

It's MUCH more likely that, by the time Garfiel closes the distance, Lucci would be using Tekkai. He has literally nothing to gain from enduring the attack otherwise, especially since he'd already know Garfiel is a threat. Either by his aura or the fact that he'd have likely dodged/tanked a ranged attack from Lucci at that point.

 

[Zabazab]

Things Garfiel has;

• AP advantage of course, he scales way above 205 Megatons.
• Really good instinctive action.
• The ability to roughly tell how strong someone is (excluding hax) and what type of martial arts they train in (if any).
• The Divine Blessing of Earth Spirits: As long as his feet are on the ground, the earth's blessing pours Mana into him. He has a tough guard of earth on his body, can manipulate the earth to move, sink, or explode, and accelarate recovery of his wounds and stamina. However when he is in a position where his feet aren't on the ground, his combat power will drop due to him being used to the Blessing supporting him.
• Beastification: He can partially or fully transform into a golden tiger, which has far greater power. However fully transforming can affect his ability to reason, massively reducing his skill in combat.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Voting Lucci with his many speed amps making not Garfiel be able to ever land a hit

And able to spam long ranged cutting attacks as well as combined with dura neg abilities he'll easily be able to land via his speed

There's not much Garfiel can do against that

 

[Nierre]

"Lol" is crazy considering how flimsy your train of logic has been this whole time, icl.

It's MUCH more likely that, by the time Garfiel closes the distance, Lucci would be using Tekkai. He has literally nothing to gain from enduring the attack otherwise, especially since he'd already know Garfiel is a threat. Either by his aura or the fact that he'd have likely dodged/tanked a ranged attack from Lucci at that point.

WHAT???

Yo I must be going crazy.

How has my logic been flimsy? I recognized the aura part and even said that puts my argument into question, because that's the ONLY reason why I'd see Lucci actually transforming on sight. That's the ONLY argument that you've used against mine that was actually valid.

I forgot about Garfiel's aura, and I was arguing under the assumption that Lucci would have no idea how strong he was and would try to BLOCK or PARRY his attacks like he did against Luffy, and OBVIOUSLY with a 5X GAP in AP, Lucci COULDN'T be able to fight back unless you assume that Garfiel RANDOMLY allows him to get a breather and transform.

If Garfiel was 1.5x or 2x stronger than Lucci, then I'd completely get why you'd think my argument is flimsy (as in, the stunlock/heavy blows), BUT A 5 TIMES GAP? HELLO??

My argument was literally IF Garfiel gets a hit, which I RECGONIZED in the first page, is likely. I wasn't saying Lucci CAN'T Speed blitz Garfiel, or that Lucci CAN'T win, I was saying that IF Garfiel ACTUALLY manages to hit him (this is before the aura argument mind you), then Garfiel WOULD win.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Ok you know what, fair enough. My bad. I think I misunderstood the purpose of your argument here.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

My argument was literally IF Garfiel gets a hit, which I RECGONIZED in the first page, is likely. I wasn't saying Lucci CAN'T Speed blitz Garfiel, or that Lucci CAN'T win, I was saying that IF Garfiel ACTUALLY manages to hit him (this is before the aura argument mind you), then Garfiel WOULD win.

And we're explaining how that's insanely unlikely to happen which you've been fighting against... That's all

Lucci with his tekkai is 2x under Garfiel, he'd still be fine plus he transforms when he's fighting seriously

 

[Nierre]

Ok you know what, fair enough. My bad. I think I misunderstood the purpose of your argument here.

All good dude, holy shit I got heated so forgive me for that.

As for the match itself, I'll retract my vote for now because everything changes now that Lucci is far far more likely to transform than I originally anticipated, due to Garfiel's overwhelming aura.

 

[Zabazab]

And able to spam long ranged cutting attacks as well as combined with dura neg abilities he'll easily be able to land via his speed

Do you think he can deal damage faster than Garfiel can regenerate the wounds?

Garfiel opened his mouth wide to bite off the shoulder on which the red handprint had been imprinted, tearing off the poison eating away at him. The taste of his own poisoned flesh and blood was terrible, as the bones his fangs grazed brought him unbearable pain.

However, the pain was only momentary. The deep gouge that was the shoulder wound emitted steam originating from blood, as the wound was restored by a tremendous surge of flesh――

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Voting Lucci with his many speed amps making not Garfiel be able to ever land a hit

And able to spam long ranged cutting attacks as well as combined with dura neg abilities he'll easily be able to land via his speed

There's not much Garfiel can do against that

I would like to point out that Garfiel does have several abilities that would help against someone with a speed advantage.

Perception Manipulation (Can reach perfect focus, making his opponent all that remains in his consciousness. By doing this all light, sound and unnecessary thing is removed from his field of view and he perceives everything in slow motion[17]),

Instinctive Action (Can move faster than his mind can think, reacting with sheer instinct.[3] Fights on the level of Garfiel are immediate, with no delay between decision making and action,[17] with the slightest delay being exploited by their opponent[17]),

Analytical Prediction (Superior to Emilia who dodged a rain of arrows by reading the shooters intent.[19] He can also predict the path of his opponents attacks[20])

Someone whose more knowledgeable on Re Zero could explain these in detail, but I'm just putting it out there.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I would like to point out that Garfiel does have several abilities that would help against someone with a speed advantage.

Perception Manipulation (Can reach perfect focus, making his opponent all that remains in his consciousness. By doing this all light, sound and unnecessary thing is removed from his field of view and he perceives everything in slow motion[17]),

Instinctive Action (Can move faster than his mind can think, reacting with sheer instinct.[3] Fights on the level of Garfiel are immediate, with no delay between decision making and action,[17] with the slightest delay being exploited by their opponent[17]),

Analytical Prediction (Superior to Emilia who dodged a rain of arrows by reading the shooters intent.[19] He can also predict the path of his opponents attacks[20])

Someone whose more knowledgeable on Re Zero could explain these in detail, but I'm just putting it out there.

all ready know about this... But it doesn't matter when the speed Amp is in the blitz levels

One Amp of Soru is blitz level, combined with his transformation, hes even faster... And with his transformation and soru it's not even comparable at all

 

[SlendVeny]

I care very little about Re:Zero, and have read none of that shit, but even then, I know Lucci has a might not be winning.

Mr. Garfield:
-Far higher AP, even higher with his transformation. His base beats Lucci's Tekkai or Zoan amps. I think he actually scales somewhat above the values used as well.
-Can sense danger, presences, auras, and in general has very good sensory abilities. He can also perceive things in slow motion by eliminating everything outside of the fight from his senses.
-Has Earth Manip within a few dozen meters
-Has Mid-Low Regen in base, and Low-Mid with his transformation.
-Can cause shockwaves with a roar.
-Actively causes pain with his aura.
-Can fight after being injured badly, being drained of mana, and then trading blows with some dude, through sheer tenacity.
-Has Instinctive Action, allowing him to move before he thinks.
-Uses Analytical Prediction above people who could predict the path of attacks through intent alone.
-Can redirect attacks in different directions through skill with his two shields, creating openings.
-Can exercise for a full week without getting tired.


Lucci:
-Has better LS
-Has higher mobility via Geppo
-Might possibly be able to use Haki, even though he never did until Egghead
-Is blitz levels above his normal self with Soru
-Outranges with Rankyaku
-Can use Tekkai while standing still, allowing him to handle the enemy attacks without being overpowered. He can also send the force back to the attacker sometimes. Hybrid Tekkai should be able to handle the opponent's base attacks.
-Can use Shigan to amp his power via piercing damage, with hybrid Shigan likely being able to keep up with the opponent's base. He can also fire Shigan attacks up to tens of meters by flicking.
-Can use Kami-e to avoid attacks, and Kami-e Bushin to reduce his Hybrid Form's size and weight.
-Will use Rokugan if all else fails, negating durability.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Do you think he can deal damage faster than Garfiel can regenerate the wounds?

yee... He won't be able to heal fast enough against attacks that damages his internal

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Do you think he can deal damage faster than Garfiel can regenerate the wounds?

Would that regeneration work on having his organs directly damaged or ruptured?

One of Lucci's techniques, Rokuogan, creates an intense shockwave that pierces through the opponent's body to damage their internals.

 

[SlendVeny]

yee... He won't be able to heal fast enough against attacks that damages his internal

Soru, I understand, but he is not going to be repeatedly using Rokugan.

 

[Zabazab]

yee... He won't be able to heal fast enough against attacks that damages his internal

Would that regeneration work on having his organs directly damaged or ruptured?

One of Lucci's techniques, Rokuogan, creates an intense shockwave that pierces through the opponent's body to damage their internals.

I think the regen would work at least.

While Garfiel’s entire body was bathed in a four-pronged barrage of antennae fired at an ultra-close range, he endured it with sheer force by healing his wounds as soon as he sustained them.

The uncommon defensive power, vitality, and extreme regenerative abilities that likely included the power of a Divine Blessing, were the gimmicks of the “monster” before Kafma’s eyes, and the cause of his enthusiasm.

The thorned vines released from his right arm had wound around the fierce tiger’s entire body, and the thorns were forcibly shaken off while they were tearing the skin to bits. His fists, covered in carapaces that thrust aside every slash, collided directly with Garfiel’s shining silver gauntlets, the carapaces shattering to pieces.

The “insect” eggs that had been planted with a flick of his left hand had burned in the flames, and the shockwave emitted once he had been forced down to his knees, which had caused his internal organs to churn, was still unable to overcome that recovery ability, falling flat.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

but he is not going to be repeatedly using Rokugan

He has no reason not to if his other attacks aren't doing enough damage, same thing he did with luffy and kept spamming it

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I think the regen would work at least.

yee it would work but not if his main internal organ gets continuously damaged or gets damaged on his heart, Lucci can still spam it via speed until it works

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Lucci:
-Has better LS

It's over, Garfiel........

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

ohh Damn, the LS difference is insane

I forgot fully the full speed rating of lucci, his transformation is also like a blitz Amp above, it's able to kinda keep up with gear 2nd luffy which completely blitzes your movement speed and obs Haki users, and he combines that with Soru + Kamisori amp as well

 

[SeijiSetto]

It's over, Garfiel........

not the Lucci Tear oh lord

 

[Zabazab]

not the Lucci Tear oh lord

Historical weakness to LS Choke???

If her shattered right hand was useless, then she’ll choke him with her arms. One arm wasn’t nearly enough to wrap around the neck far wider than her own body. Soaring, grappling, throwing in her legs as well to strangle the beast’s arteries, she dodged the claws closing in to swipe her away. Shifting with all her weight, one of her fingers snapped. The shriek felt good, like she was back home.