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Old King Thor

I would just like to point out that even outside of the storyline King Thor is from All Black has been able to kill celestials, literally the first thing Knull did when he made All Black is slaughter a bunch of them. If anything, the inconsistency should be characters less than King Thor, Phoenix Wolverine, or people amped by All Black fighting celestials, not the celestials being depicted as weak.
 
True also the All black sword was made out of knull when he was at his peak and not sealed away.

Wolverine, King Thor and Doom plus Loki and Gorr (both were using the all black sword the same one used to kill celestials and than Gorr unlocked its full potential) are Massively above everyone else.

Thor's grandchildren were useless in the story and couldn't do anything except fighting Doctor doom's goons.
 
They also did nothing to Galactus on their own and they needed specific ancient weapons just to be able to do anything beyond annoy him and he still ended up oneshotting them
 
Yup so far King Thor was the only one that could fight any of the villains that came up, after that Logan showed up and gave him a boost by letting Thor the Phoenix force, and Miljonir absorbed the rest of it.

Later on he fights Loki amped by necrosword and than Gorr, he been fighting only people that could rival cosmic beings.

The whole point of Old King Thor is to show him Massively above any other versions of him and Odin that exist.
 
To quote myself:
Antvasima said:
Well, the main problem is that Jason Aaron does not write any of these characters as anywhere near tier 2-A, which makes the scaling difficult, but yes, we should stop discussing this issue here.
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Antvasima said:
Just a few examples of Jason Aaron's inconsistencies:

Odin was matched by Jane Foster Thor and defeated by the regular Thor.

Mjolnir-less young Thor caused trouble to Gorr just like Old King Thor did.

The Celestials were essentially treated as weak giant robots that large versions of Thor, She-Hulk, and the Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider could handle.

Gorr, future Galactus, and Old King Thor usually only displayed High 4-C to 4-B level feats when truly exerting themselves.

Also, which members have you asked and gained agreement from regarding a 2-A Thor Weekly? A 2-A prime Odin was just rejected after a long discussion in another thread, so making Old King Thor infinitely stronger does not make any sense in relation to our other profiles.
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Antvasima said:
Anyway, I still do not think that we can scale Old King Thor any higher than 2-C given his relation to Odin.
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Antvasima said:
Here are some members that you should ask to comment here before you start making a 2-A Thor profile:

Sera EX, Kepekley23, Matthew Schroeder, Zensum, C2 of Omego, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Qawsedf234, PrinceOfTheMorning, Ultima Reality, SuperAPM, Zark2099, ClassicNESfa.
Click to expand...
 
@Ant the point is that even outside Jason Aaron's run of that comic All Black is depicted as being 2-A, and thats what people scale to
 
Well, I suppose that you might have a point, but you should ask the people I mentioned above to give input here.
 
Okay so let's see:

  • His power has grown exponentially since he got the Odin force millenia ago
    • Weeks after getting the Odin force when he was younger his power surpassed Odin so far that strange tried and failed to put a limiter on him
  • He accidentally oneshot 4-B Gorr while testing his power because he forgot how powerful he actually was
  • He fought on par with a well fed galactus
  • He fought on par with phoenix force wolverine
    • Phoenix wolverine killed celestials and traded blows with king doom
  • He fought on par with king doom
    • King doom could harm him and phoenix wolverine
  • He fought on par with king loki
    • King loki wielded the full power of all black which csn kill celestials and without all black he killed ego the necroworld who also wielded the full power of all black
      • Ego also killed celestials and a well fed galactus
I probably missed something here but 2-A king thor is scarily consistent
 
I do not remember this from the current Thor run.

He fought on par with a well fed galactus

Wasn't Galactus hungry?
 
@Matt I mean when all of the x's he fought are 2-A and he hasn't shown to have issue with anything below that...

@Ant I will try to find the scan of the former when i get home but for the latter no, he was well fed as he was able to feed on planets unimpeded for centuries and just came to earth because everyone was dead and he wanted to finally eat the one planet he never could
 
I mean, if King Thor has repeatedly fought 2-A level beings that would potentially make his lower showings the outliers, not another way around.
 
From what I recall from my read through his lower showing are ridiculously casual, like oneshotting the black leviathan that was equal to the mudguard Serpent and that nearly killed thor. Or oneshotting 4-B Gorr on accident while testing his powers because he legitimately forgot how strong he actually was because he hadnt needed to use his full power in so long
 
The only people who i genuinely remember giving him any trouble are people who were either empowered by the full power of All Black or people who have or wgo scale to feats of killing Celestials
 
I have a couple thoughts on this, but before I get into it, I checked out our profiles for Gorr, Thor, and Odin. Gorr is listed as 2-A in his most powerful form. Why is that?
 
Because before he absorbed the blood and power of the gods of his planet he was only depicted as being comparable to young and Avenger thor and got oneshot by King Thor, on top of a few other odds and ends feats being consistently tier 4 plus thor stating that gorr wasnt able to wield the full power of all black since he wasnt a god and only achieved the true power of it at the end by andorbing so many gods
 
Just off the top of my head. I'll look into specifics when I have time later.

Where does he 1 shot Gorr again? I'm pretty sure both times they fight it's a drawn out struggle. I think narration even says at one point "The Thor-Force will not be enough, just as it wasn't enough against Gorr".

If your talking about the Galactus fight in GoT #20-23, Hes not we'll fed, he's in the process of setting up to eat earth, which is what he does when he's hungry. He does eat some of earth's energy but thor also says that earth is basically half dead now. Also Thor loses the fight. galactus does punch thor into the moon hard enough to bust it tho. But that's not 2-A ofc

Thor felt the Sun would be enough to kill Loki, granted it doesn't, but this does mean that he thinks his own output is somewhat comparable to the sun at this point. IIRC Thor had to put effort into throwing a star in another instance. Celestials are generally bad for scaling. For example in a recent avengers issue there's these off shoot celestials who can be damaged with explicitly megatons of firepower.
 
Gorr before the end of ligth was weaker than the actual one who "ended the universe", Gorr should be 2-A because he is above the celestials (that should be 1-B anyway).
 
Zensum said:
snip
Click to expand...
Ill get the scan of him oneshotting gorr when i get home

You...do kbow that being killed by the sun is an 8-C feat right? And its such a common trope in fiction that numerous verses have done so to tier 4/3 characters despite the fact that it wouldnt actually kill them? DB and bayonetta off the top of my head have both killed tier 4s by throwing them into the sun. Also no, he pretty casually threw a planet into a black hole and then muscled his way out of a black hole in in a later issue.
 
Thor knockout the strongest version of Gorr here , this version of Gorr is strongest being in the universe of old king Thor. That's put him far above King Thor, Phoenix, Dr.doom and all others.
 
Oh, King Thor also oneshots black Berserker by the hundreds when it took Avenger thor hours of fighting just to kill one
 
I agree with Zensum. Again, Jason Aaron has greatly depowered all of the mentioned characters in his stories. They are not anywhere near 2-A within them.
 
@Week Alright.

Well the feat didn't kill him like I said, the part to note is Thor thought it would over his own power. Ofc I agree being thrown into the sun is common cause "Well it's a big hot thing. It could probs kill a cosmic dude", but for 2-A's? NaPalm ocean/the sun/throwing stars are far apart in scale, the level they are operating on, and it's all in the same 2 issues.

@Luck KOed? He's clearly conscious there and btfos Thor and Loki after this.

g2g
 
Like I said I'll get a scan of him oneshotting gorr but where did he say that his power is comparable to the sun?
 
The Necrosword checks out. It scales so directly to the Celestials that I feel we need a few anti-feats before we can start arguing that contending against it or using it at its full power does not grant the character a 2-A tier.

I also agree with Zensum that throwing a character into the sun should not be a viable option for multiversal entities. Fiction can be a little crazy at times, but even the craziest power scaler will usually acknolwedge that there are countless stars in even a single universe, and someone who can destroy an infinite number of those will not be slowed down by being thrown into a star. Loki needs some supporting feats if we are to class him as 2-A. If you can provide some corroborating evidence, then you could argue Thor was just having a ditz moment and didn't know what he was doing when he thought a star could kill Loki, but unless you have something like that, this feat probably shouldn't be used as supporting evidence.

I think I'd like to read the Galactus fight for myself before calling it either way on that one.

All things considered, Old King Thor should be At Least 2-C for scaling significantly beyond Odi, but the above three feats do put him in something of a limbo. If somebody can provide significant anti-feats for the Necrosword or the Galactus feat doesn't pan out, then I do not think he can be reliably scaled to 2-A. However, if somebody can provide significant corroborating feats for Loki or the Galactus feat does pan out, then I suppose it would make most sense to scale him to 2-A. It seems a little high for a skyfather, but feats are feats at the end of the day, and if Old King Thor is surrounded by unquantifiables, scaled above 2-C, has no significant low showings, and has a handful of 2-A feats, then it feels like the most honest thing to do. The key here is that we have three feats. One of them being 2-A is probably not enough to upgrade the character and should be classed as an outlier, but if you can swing two of them, he has no low showings, and his peak power is never really touched on? Then you might have an argument.
 
Like i said i can post scans when i get home from work, however Loki even without the necrosword killed ego who in turn, without the necrosword, killed a necrosword amped well fed galactus and then went on to absorb the necrosword himself and then killed a bunch of celestials.
 
And like i said in the previous thread, All Black has 2-A feats outside of Jason's run of the comics
 
Was '''Ego''' amped with the '''Necrosword''' when '''Loki''' killed him? You'll have to forgive me. I haven't read this storyline in ages.
 
iirc He was amped by the necrosword when loki killed him yes, and even without it ego fought and killed necrosword amped and well fed galactus
 
Interesting. I think I'd like to check these feats out for myself in fuller context when I get the chance. Do you happen to know the stories off the top of your head? I'll give them a reread and get back to you with my personal opinion as soon as possible.
 
For the most part yes, i had to read through them and a few others when i reworked gorrs profile and made all-Black though that was a few months ago
 
Okay. I checked out the stories in question, and here's my interpretation.

Concerning the Necrosword

The Necrosword is scalable to 2-A without question. It refers back to the Celestials too many times to be interpreted otherwise. It was made from a Celestial, it was embued with the power of a Celestial, and it has killed Celestials on multiple occasions. It scales to the Celestials.

But it's also worth noting that it does not necessarily amp its users to 2-A on every occasion. Remember, Gorr was using the Necrosword even back when he struggled with standard modern-day Thor. This is why Gorr has a 4-B key. It would appear that- as with many cosmic entities and power ups- the Necrosword varies in strength depending on how adept its user is at calling upon its latent energy.

That being said, wielders of the Necrosword should only be considered 2-A if they are explicitly described as utilizing its full potential or if they perform direct 2-A feats. Because of this, Galactus and Loki's necro forms should be Unknow until supplimental feats are provided.

Concerning Ego, The Living Planet

Ego's nerco form is probably 2-A.

Here's why:

First of all, he managed to kill a well fed Galactus who was just kind of eating everything in his path like a lunatic. However, it needs to be noted that Ego did not do this on his own. Galactus made the monumentally dumb mistake of stabbing Ego with the Necrosword and then slowly taking his time to kill him, which resulted in the Necrosword bonding with Ego before he tore Galactus apart. The only reason Ego even stood a chance is because of his Necrosword amp.

Secondly, Necro Ego claimed he had killed the last of the Celestials as well. Not a feat out of place for someone utilizing the Necrosword to its full potential.

However, none of this should scale to Old King Loki or his necro form because he did not defeat Necro Ego in the conventional sense. There was no massive fight wherein Loki overpowered his opponent. He merely took the form of a worm too small and difficult to locate and whispered to Ego for 99 years straight, until he had driven him so mad, that he surrendered the Necrosword for a moment of silence. That's hilarious, but it certainly doesn't qualify Loki for 2-A, so fighting Loki does not qualify Old King Thor for 2-A either.

Scaling Thor

I think our best bet at scaling Old King Thor is by using his fight with Galactus. In that particular story, Galactus had come to devour Earth because the universe was running out of planets, nobody was living there, and he was running out of options. In most Marvel realities, Galactus has some type of deal worked out with Earth and will only really attack if he's desperate, but this is clearly an exception to that rule because the circumstances are so fringe. I don't think it's fair to call this Galactus "starving," but he was certainly hungry.

Anyway, Old King Thor puts up a really good fight but is ultimately yeeted, and Galactus draws energy from the planet. A solid showing for high 2-C. Frankly, better than his father ever did. It all adds up. Galactus recharges himself to possibly "well fed" levels, but Thor grabs the Necrosword, and he absolutely stomps Galactus when he comes back. Frankly, if Old King Thor has to have a 2-A key, this is the form I'd feel most comfortable with. Necro Thor took out an arguably well fed Galactus like he was taking out the trash.

One Last Thing

If you're really hurting for Old King Thor feats, he does also go toe-to-toe with Wolverine acting as a Phoenix Force avatar, but I'm not sure how to scale that. Phoenix avatars tend to have differing levels of power, don't they? Not sure. If you can find a way to work off of that, it might be useful, but when it comes to Loki and Galactus, I don't think Old King Thor displays anything beyond very high 2-C feats here unless he's holding the Necrosword. I'm open to other arguments, but that yeeting by a moderately fed Galactus is gonna be pesky. Unless you have some way to invalidate it, that's officially a low showing for anybody trying to upgrade Old King Thor to 2-A. You would need to find enough consistent 2-A feats to make it the outlier. That's a tough order. I'm open to being convinced, though.
 
@NES Ill respond to that fully in a few minutes vut Galactus would be 2-A on his own solely because he was well fed, which scales from his canon counterpart as black galactus is literally just galactus from the future

Galactus (Marvel Comics)
 
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