Old King Thor

[ClassicNESfan]

I don't know if that scene alone is sufficient evidence that gods have immediate access to the full might of the weapon. It seems more like an amp that varies depending on the aptitude of the user, like cosmic power ups are known to do in fiction. Something that describes the mechanics of the sword more thoroughly or specifically would be preferable.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Thats what its meant to convey yes, thus far Gorr is the only mortal to wield All-Black and as a result his feats were vastly below the feats of every other character who has wielded it, all of whom were Gods with the exception of Ego who literally merged All-Black directly into his entire being rather than just using it as a weapon.

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Gorr does certainly seem to have the least impressive feats among those who have wielded the sword, but Ego and Galactus are not gods either. Not in the context of this story at least. I know Galactus is sometimes revered as a type of god, but he is clearly different from the types of deities dealt with in this storyline. He does not watch over a planet of worshippers, convene in the Parliment of Pantheons, or have his name in the Omnipotence City Library. I doubt very much that he was targeted by the god bomb.

I'm willing to believe your assertion, but it needs more evidence than this one line. This particular line itself feels far too vague. Given the Necrosword's history, it frankly sounds more like Thor is just alluding to its origins. He mentions the sword's true name, says it was meant to be wielded by a god (that being Knull), and says that it was meant to kill gods (something Knull frequently used it for). There is no particularly clear indication here that any god who picks up the blade is automatically buffed to its full potential.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

In Galactus' case he was 2-A to begin with seeing as he was coming right from eating hundreds of planets, he was without a doubt well fed so he'd be 2-A even without all-black. NecroEgo has a 2-A feat in both killing 2-A Galactus and in killing and eating Celestials. Theyre not gods but they have 2-A feats that they scale to independent of having the full power of all-Black via godhood.

 

[AshenCrow777]

All black,it is meant to be wielded by a god: Knull was able to decapitate a Celestial with a single strike, King Thor was able to defeat Galactus in single combat.

Galactus effortlessly destroyed countless planets using its power, Ego used it to devour the last of the Celestials of Earth-14412, and Loki effortlessly destroyed Ego as a test of his newfound power.

According to Old Galactus, this is the same weapon "that carved the first dawn from the stone of the endless night." aka when the Celestials arrived after killing the first firmament.


The Sword was made to kill all kind of Celestials beings and other abstracts entities plus let's not forget.

The all black sword is a SYMBIOTE and like like every other symbiotes once they find a host their job is to boost them to insane degrees.

The sword is basically like Venom some host are more compatible than other.

The only reason why Gorr was able to unlock the weapons full potential was because he was in a black hole for millions upon millions of years and only got out when the universe is about to die.

He had all that time to bond with the weapon and become compatible.

But Knull created that weapon specifically for God's or more precisely God's are just more compatible with it than mortals.

Also Old Galactus was well fed he just wanted to eat the earth out of spite.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Also Loki spent ninety-nine years driving the sentient planet Ego to the brink of madness. Ego finally gave into King Loki's demands and literally coughed up All-Black, making King Loki its current host.


also this statement is true and false "elder gods" did not create it only knull did.
Also it wasn't form by all the darkness from other God it came from the darkness of one.

Knull.

Other than that everything else is true and it also clearly states that it corrupts the user while boosting them. And bathing it 8n the blood of other God makes it even stronger which it was happening when Loki was using it against Thor when he was repeatedly stabbing him till his guts spilled out.

They were going around casually blowing planets/suns/stars and and apparently galaxies too since they were fighting all over space.

Gorr, Thor, Galactus, Ego and Loki have all been boosted by the sword there's no doubt about it.

But the more they use the the more darker evil they get.

 

[ClassicNESfan]

I'm going to be afk most of today, but I just wanted to say that I do not consider any of these last three posts sufficient evidence that gods immediately tap into the full power of the Necrosword. You've done a great job of proving that the Necrosword is 2-A at its full potential. That's solid. But it seems to me more like a weapon that varies in power depending on the aptitude of its user, not their relationship to godhood. I haven't been able to find a scan yet suggesting otherwise in any strong terms. That being said, it has been a long time since I read most of these stories. It's possible that I'm simply not appreciating the full context of the scans you're linking, so I'll try to make time to read the full stories if you guys can tell me where to find them. Maybe seeing everything in context will change my mind.

At this current moment, however, I am not convinced that Necro King Loki was 2-A just because he was wielding the Necrosword. There is one other way around this problem, as proposed by Luck100. He linked a sca that seems to heavily imply Necro King Loki is equivalent or superior to Gorr. So by transitive properties, if you can find a scan confirming that Gorr was tapping into the full potential of the Necrosword, we can bypass the need to prove that gods are automatically amped to 2-A.

It is very imperative we prove Necro King Loki and Gorr were 2-A by one of the two above methods if Old King Thor wants a chance at becoming 2-A himself. His fight against Phoenix Force Wolverine seems like the only solid 2-A feat available thus far, and it is juxtaposed by his loss to a moderately fed Galactus. So if we cannot find a strong line of evidence here, then the most logical assumption is that the writer simply did not appreciate how powerful the Phoenix Force was actually supposed to be. Which feat counts as the outlier depends on our ability to scale Necro King Loki and Gorr to 2-A, either by finding a more solid explanation of the Necrosword's mechanics or by finding a statement suggesting one of them was using it at its maximum potential. I'll leave that up to you guys until I have another break today. Best of luck!

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Hmm, looking thorugh what you said again you actually do make a lot of sense, perhaps 2-C, 2-A with the Necrosword/Phoenix Force?

 

[AshenCrow777]

here it's shown that Gorr as unlocked the full potential of the Necrosword aka the Annihilablade, dialog shows and states that he was able to unlock its full potential in order to weild. Also after ego got infected by the necrosword it allowed him to basically stomp/eat Galactus (ironic) in normal circumstances Ego would have never been able to scratch or harm Galactus, but necrosword obviously boosted him.



Gorr was able to unlock the full potential and use it like Loki effectively, and Ego totally overpowered Galactus and ate him.

 

[ClassicNESfan]

I think you could swing either 2-C or At Least 2-C since it's unclear exactly how much Galactus needed to eat before he was fully charged, but you would also have to change Gorr's second key to match it.

I think I would like a fresh opinion from somebody on exactly how powerful Galactus was when Old King Thor stomped him using the Necrosword. We can give him another key to scale off of that, but I don't want to go straight for 2-A without a concurrence by some other reviewer.

Also, are there any other instances of Old King Thor using the weapon?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@NES I mean King Thor would still scale above Odinforce Thor (Marvel Comics) and Odin (Marvel Comics) so you'd be hard-pressed to argue that he's below 2-C

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Sure, but I wasn't asking anything about that. He's definitely 2-C at a minimum.

 

[AshenCrow777]

I think you could swing either 2-C or At Least 2-C since it's unclear exactly how much Galactus needed to eat before he was fully charged, but you would also have to change Gorr's second key to match it.

I think I would like a fresh opinion from somebody on exactly how powerful Galactus was when Old King Thor stomped him using the Necrosword. We can give him another key to scale off of that, but I don't want to go straight for 2-A without a concurrence by some other reviewer.

Also, are there any other instances of Old King Thor using the weapon?

He used it against Gor again.

And also seemed to have kept a small piece of it in his sword after Miljonir brought it to him. Also no matter the quantity of all black you have they all seem to be equal, just depends on how you use it and Thor as no reservations on holding back once he has it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes so moderately fed galactus being 2-C on his own on top of beating a 2-C Thor is consistent

 

[ClassicNESfan]

It's probably fair to call Old King Thor 2-C, Gorr's second key At Least 2-C, and Old King Thor with the Necrosword At Least 2-C.

 

[AshenCrow777]

It was a moderately fed Galactus he said himself that he didn't need to eat the earth he just wanted to do it out of spite.



and against ego he was more than just well fed he was eating just for the sake of eating, so ego shouldnt have been able to harm him but necrosword amped ego in order to defeat Galactus.

Galactus ate a ton of planets one after the other there's clearly many many of them.

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Yes, the Necrosword can amp some entities to 2-A as it did to Ego, but I don't think we have very good evidence that it did that to Gorr or Old King Thor. They clearly utilized some of its power but not all of it.

 

[AshenCrow777]

2-C Galactus vs 2-C Thor makes sense, but once Thor got the necrosword he completely one shotted Galactus with no Difficulty, the difference in power was wayyyy to high. Thor used the necrosword to boost himself since him and Galactus were matching each other on every front.

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Yes, which is why I suggested making Old King Thor with the Necrosword At Least 2-C. It's possible he's reaching into the 2-B tier at that point because he's clearly far above Galactus, but it is clear his power still doesn't extend directly into 2-A because he fights on par with Gorr when he has the Necrosword. If he was straight up 2-A, that would make Gorr 2-A, and if Gorr was 2-A, he'd curbstomp Old King Thor without the sword.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Yes, the Necrosword can amp some entities to 2-A as it did to Ego, but I don't think we have very good evidence that it did that to Gorr or Old King Thor. They clearly utilized some of its power but not all of it.

Gorr literally says that he unlocks the power of the Necrosword and turns it into the Annihilablade there's no denying that scene alone shows Gorr going 2-A.

Because a second later he completely overpowers both Loki and Thor at the same time,before they were on somewhat equal grounds but after the Annihilablade comes into the picture?

There was no struggle they get completely dominated by Gorr.

 

[AshenCrow777]

I'VE FOUND PROOF


Thor calls it the Annihilablade it's true form and meant to be weilded by a god, that's why Loki was more than a threat, because Gorr was a God like Loki, that's why Ego was able to utterly dominate Galactus, that's why Thor got that insane power boost that's why Galactus went insane with power.
They are all basically God's and the moment they get it they become insanely powerful.

But now Gorr as unlocked its full potential on is own this is a massive feat for him.

This not only proves its meant for Gods but it also shows that Gorr was able to unlock its full potential when he was in the black hole of having it for a millenial years.

"Curb stomp with out the sword"

But his powers comes from the sword without he's nothing so that not a good reason to say he's not 2-A since his power source is the necrosword. Just like Eddie Brooke's power comes from Venom and without the suit he's basically normal.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Perhaps a happy medium of 'at least 2-C, possibly 2-A with the necrosword?'

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Ashen, with all due respect, this is going in circles. We already discussed the scene you brought up over half way up the thread. That line is not sufficient proof that gods are immediately buffed to 2-A when using the sword, and neither Ego nor Galactus are "gods" in the context of this story. I'm very busy today and can't spend incredibly long online, so please read through the discussion up to this point before trying to introduce new evidence or arguments.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Perhaps a happy medium of 'at least 2-C, possibly 2-A with the necrosword?'

^^^^^

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Like i said, since we dont know for sure exactly how powerful He would be but have feats scaling from other gods and othe rpeople wielding it, maybe we could have a happy medium of 'At least 2-C, possibly 2-A'

 

[ClassicNESfan]

@WeeklyBattles, if it's all the same to you, I think I'd like to try reading Gorr and Old King Thor's most recent fight myself before declaring anything like that. Could you tell me the name of the comic it happens in?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that ClassicNESfan makes sense.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

As do i

@NES it happens in King Thor but i dont remember exactly which issue its in

 

[ClassicNESfan]

I'll do some looking into it and get back to you later today with my final opinions.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[AshenCrow777]

I'll do some looking into it and get back to you later today with my final opinions.

King Thor issue 2. In issue one he fights Loki.

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Okay. I'm back. I read through the stories, and I think the information it provided was revealing.

I've decided that there is a certain amount of logic in the 2-A argument that we've been hearing. I see what you three have been getting at. Lines like these don't really mean much on their own, but when paired with lines like these , they start to make a little more sense. When piecing all the information together, it looks like you could interpret this as saying that the Necrosword (which is indisputably 2-A at its peak) is a difficult weapon to utilize in its fullest potential. Characters like Ego, Galactus, Loki, etc are more adept at using the Necrosword because they are used to manipulating vast amounts of energy, while Gorr experienced a more gradual growth in strength because he was just a regular guy before finding the Necrosword. He only became good at using it after bonding to it for thousands of years. That all makes sense. But unfortunately for us, it does still leave the answer somewhat undefined. Either everybody is using the Necrosword at its full potential (except for Gorr when he was first getting used to it) or various people are just using various portions of its potential depending on the host. The answer is unclear. In the case of the former, Old King Thor would definitely be 2-A for matching Gorr and Loki, but in the case of the latter, Old King Thor would only sit at 2-C by defaulting to his more regular feats. That means that as long as this ambiguity exists, we cannot scale people using the Necrosword. It cannot be used as a way of upgrading people, and it cannot be used as a way of downgrading people until we get more information on it. Instead, we need to use other feats to determine Old King Thor's full power. The problem?

His only other two semi-quantifiable feats are putting up a fight against moderately fed Galactus and putting up a fight against Phoenix Force Wolverine. Two feats that are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. One is 2-C while the other is 2-A. So which one do we treat as the outlier?

I propose the following solution: Seeing as Odi is pretty consistently treated as a 2-C character and Old King Thor is indisputably more powerful than him but not incomparable, we should treat his lineage as a third feat, tipping the scales in favor of 2-C until such a time as this relatively new King Thor series gives us one or two solid 2-A feats. The results would look something like this:

Old King Thor: 2-C (Superior to Odin, held the divine power of Asgard for much longer than his father, put up a good fight against a moderately fed Galactus)

Gorr, The God Butcher: At Least 2-C (Signficantly superior to the likes of Old King Thor and comparable gods)

Old King Thor w/ the Necrosword: At Least 2-C (Much stronger than before, Significantly superior to a moderately fed Galactus)

And we add a note on the Necrosword's page telling people that its full potential is difficult to tap into and its amp can vary depending on the host.

Then we keep an eye on the current King Thor run, and if any more 2-A feats come up, we can consider revisiting this question and revising it again. Does that sound good?

 

[Luck100]

Didn't Galactus beat the Green Phoenix one time ? I think that figth was in Marvel legacy. So, a decent fed Galactus (not starving) could be 2-A.

 

[AshenCrow777]

OK I can go with that, what do we do of Wolverine? Also it should be noted that Thor is able to break through adamantium he punched/burned a whole straight through Logan's chest.

Also on King Thor profile is sword should be registered as an equipment just like Miljonir and his sword has a piece of the Necrosword on it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Phoenix Wolverine is still 2-A

 

[AshenCrow777]

Phoenix Wolverine is still 2-A

Kk I guess king Thor won't have a 2-A or an at least/possibly via Phoenix force no?

 

[ClassicNESfan]

No. It seems more likely that the writer did not realize how powerful the Phoenix Force is and was writing him comperable to powerful skyfathers and a slightly hungry Galactus. We can bump all these characters up to 2-A if Old King Thor pulls another one or two 2-A feats on us in his new storyline, but not until then. The highest anybody should get right now is At Least 2-C.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Phoenix Force characters are 2-A by default and killing Celestials is a 2-A feat, he' undoubtedly 2-A

 

[ClassicNESfan]

'''Wolverine''' killed a '''Celestial'''? I think I missed that part.