Ninjago Star Tiering and Possible New Value

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Wu's meeting with Kai is different from that in the show

The point is still the same, though. It's not an entirely new scene, it’s just a summary of what Wu said… so nah

This wouldn't scale to physical stats since Nadakhan's wishes are not a UES.
From the Creation Feats page in the wiki

It still shows that stellar feats are a thing in Ninjago, and your argument relies on "OUTLIER!!!1!!!" yappery. 2 is already more than enough, as I gave examples with Gravity Falls and Wander over Yonder who haev only 1 feat that matches the tier, and this is just a supportive of the 4-C feats in Ninjago...

Nadakhan at the time is amped by EPs who have a UES + Pretty sure Djinns magic is shown weaker when physically injured, which would imply UES

Meh, Nadakhan created it via Djinn Magic, not EPs, and the reason he was weaker is because Widow Tiger’s Poison was magic-draining iirc, so I don’t really think so

 

[REX9097]

Bump

 

[Aolphl]

snip

Maybe can you agree with "Possibly 4-C"?

 

[YmTheSuper]

2 is already more than enough, as I gave examples with Gravity Falls and Wander over Yonder who haev only 1 feat that matches the tier

From the page on outliers

1) Is it a big jump or drop in power? If a character with several city destruction feats is shown to be able to destroy a mountain, we cannot necessarily consider it as an outlier, for the reason that the jump between tiers is not extreme enough to be so

Neither of the examples you gave have an extreme jump in power since:
1. Gravity Falls has multiple wall level, small building level and building feats. The jump from these feats to city block is not large enough to warrant it being an outlier
2. Wander over Yonder has many planetary to stellar statements, planetary feats and a brown dwarf level feat, a jump to star level here is not extreme enough for it to be considered an outlier.

While the jump in Ninjago is from Tier 7/Tier 8 feats (Multi City-Block, Town and Large Town level feats) to 4-C (Star Level) which is a massive jump that relies on 2 feats one of which is a Pocket Dimension creation feat which should be analyzed case-by-case in order to accommodate for the possibility of outliers, PIS and inconsistencies... and the other feat is the Golden Weapons feat which is already in question from previous arguments in the thread (There's also a 6-A statement but it's very vague and comes from a magazine and probably shouldn't be used as I indicated earlier and even if it were to be used it wouldn't change anything about 4-C scaling since it's still a massive jump in power)

Now it's up to staff members to consider whether star level is an outlier or not.

 

[REX9097]

Maybe can you agree with "Possibly 4-C"?

He agree with 4-C, so is would be not possibly but Pilots characters would be 6-A but if he agree with TGW feat to be possibly so Pilots characters like Samukai, Lord Garmadon (Pre-Realm of Madness), Clouse (Serpentine War Arc) would be 6-A, possibly Low 4-C.

 

[Aolphl]

He agree with 4-C, so is would be not possibly but Pilots characters would be 6-A but if he agree with TGW feat to be possibly so Pilots characters like Samukai, Lord Garmadon (Pre-Realm of Madness), Clouse (Serpentine War Arc) would be 6-A, possibly Low 4-C.

I talking about possibly 4-C for main cast

 

[YmTheSuper]

He agree with 4-C

Not really

but I can't entirely agree with upscaling the Main Cast.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Not really

I talking about possibly 4-C for main cast

He said he agrees with the Dimension Feat, but not the 4-C GWs one

 

[Planck69]

I hold the same opinion as ActuallySpaceman.

 

[YmTheSuper]

I hold the same opinion as ActuallySpaceman.

Are you neutral leaning towards disagree on the characters scaling to 4-C overall or just on them scaling to the Golden Weapons creating a star feat?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

1. Gravity Falls has multiple wall level, small building level and building feats. The jump from these feats to city block is not large enough to warrant it being an outlier

Jump from 9-B to 9-A to 8-C to 8-B is pretty big.

2. Wander over Yonder has many planetary to stellar statements, planetary feats and a brown dwarf level feat, a jump to star level here is not extreme enough for it to be considered an outlier.

I see only one planetary feats on the page and no other. It’s a huge jump from 10-B to Tiers 5-4. And Ninjago has multiple Star level feats regardless.

Anyways, I probably won’t be bothered by this anymore. I said everything I wanted and needed to. If 4-C gets rejected, I will just push to 10-B by the same logic, and just finally leave Ninjago alone on this website.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Are you neutral leaning towards disagree on the characters scaling to 4-C overall or just on them scaling to the Golden Weapons creating a star feat?

Spaceman's said neutral towards disagree on GWs but agree on Wu's Dimension Feat

 

[YmTheSuper]

I see only one planetary feats on the page and no other. It’s a huge jump from 10-B to Tiers 5-4.

We're derailing but this is just wrong

Spaceman's said neutral towards disagree on GWs but agree on Wu's Dimension Feat

I asked for clarification because he said he agrees with Wu's dimension feat but doesn't agree with upscaling the main cast which could mean that he agrees with the feat itself but not characters scaling to it. More clarification is always better.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

We're derailing

Actually no, I was showing that outliers do not work this way. But anyway.

but this is just wrong

Wth is this link.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

It's been a while since I read this, is there any proof that the character who created the star can use the same amount of energy in his attacks?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

It's been a while since I read this, is there any proof that the character who created the star can use the same amount of energy in his attacks?

We had UES accepted eons ago

 

[Demon_Lord18]

We had UES accepted eons ago

A UES is not enough for this; you need to prove that it can use the same amount of energy used in its creation in an attack.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

A UES is not enough for this; you need to prove that it can use the same amount of energy used in its creation in an attack.

UES is literally about the fact that all your attacks have the same energy, otherwise there is no reason for its existence, lol.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

UES is literally about the fact that all your attacks have the same energy, otherwise there is no reason for its existence, lol.

Do we really work like this? If so, the part of the creation page where it says he needs to channel a similar amount of energy or greater to scale to his physiques doesn't make sense.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Do we really work like this? If so, the part of the creation page where it says he needs to channel a similar amount of energy or greater to scale to his physiques doesn't make sense.

Maybe read the page a little better?

In order to apply to a character's capacity to harm other characters, that is their usual Attack Potency, their Creation has to be connected to their other abilities. Often that is due to a common energy system, in which the same energy used for creation is used for attacks.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Maybe read the page a little better?

Soon after this it is said that he would have to channel a similar/greater amount of energy

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Soon after this it is said that he would have to channel a similar/greater amount of energy

Wu channels his element inside his body. Every single Creation feats scales to his physicals. This was answered in page 1-2

 

[Theglassman12]

Spaceman's points seem reasonable.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Spaceman's points seem reasonable.

Ty for this input. I think this can be closed since we have 3 staff approval

 

[YmTheSuper]

I think this can be closed since we have 3 staff approval

Not really

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Not really

Eh, I can understand the GW's Star Level, but I can't entirely agree with upscaling the Main Cast. That small explosion and the star feat are clearly on completely different scales.

I agree with Wu's Pocket Dimension though.

Can you explain why the feats doesn't scale to their UES?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Reasons characters would upscales to the main cast:
The Ninjas can tank a blow from it, and that would upscale to the cast being able to harm them
Lloyd possess its power, and that would upscale to the cast scaling reletive to him

I already explained why I disagree with these.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I already explained why I disagree with these.

Yeah, on ur page u said you agree with the feats being 4-C, but no one scaling to it. But the argument the OP made was that Wu scaled to his 4-C creation throught a UES

This would further support the Star level rating and make it consistant (A reminder this would scale to his AP due to having a UES as explained earlier), and would upscale the cast higher into 4-C

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I already explained why I disagree with these.

Your argument is just AP =/= DC though. We cannot expect for all their feats to just destroy stars, especially given that the main setting in the series is a city. Could you elaborate why you disagree with accepted UES?
Also, these were not the only reasons:

But the point is that Garmadon can hold Megaweapon/4 Golden Weapons, which would erase someone from existence. And they did not only clash swords but also fought physically and could harm each other. And again, Cole could hold the Megaweapon as well, so I don't see why they wouldn't be 4-C.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I don’t disagree with UES, but I don’t think that explosion alone is enough to scale their durability to the highest feat the GWs have shown. If there were another feat showing them or stating that they tanked a full-force attack or explosion from a GW, then I’d be on board with that scaling.

As for the Lloyd part, it mentions “transformative powers,” which seems to refer to him having access to all the GWs’ abilities, not necessarily scaling to them.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Eh, I can understand the GW's Star Level, but I can't entirely agree with upscaling the Main Cast. That small explosion and the star feat are clearly on completely different scales.

I hold the same opinion as ActuallySpaceman.

Spaceman's points seem reasonable.

Seems a downgrade might be in order then

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I don’t disagree with UES, but I don’t think that explosion alone is enough to scale their durability to the highest feat the GWs have shown. If there were another feat showing them or stating that they tanked a full-force attack or explosion from a GW, then I’d be on board with that scaling.

What about Garmadon and Cole part?
Villains comparable to Ninjas easily take GWs explosion here as well btw, so this should be good.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I don’t disagree with UES, but I don’t think that explosion alone is enough to scale their durability to the highest feat the GWs have shown. If there were another feat showing them or stating that they tanked a full-force attack or explosion from a GW, then I’d be on board with that scaling.

What about the fact Garmadon is powerful enough to control their combined power? Is that enough proof?

Seems a downgrade might be in order then

Nah, Planck and Glassman's comments were done thinking they agree on the Dimension feat

 

[YmTheSuper]

What about the fact Garmadon is powerful enough to control their combined power? Is that enough proof?

If surviving the explosion of their contact wouldn't scale to 4-C then there's no reason to believe that controlling their power and wielding them would scale to 4-C

Nah, Planck and Glassman's comments were done thinking they agree on the Dimension feat

We should probably ask for clarification rather than make assumptions so that further misunderstandings don't happen

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

What about Garmadon and Cole part?
Villains comparable to Ninjas easily take GWs explosion here as well btw, so this should be good.

It's the same feat. Maybe I'm just not knowledgeable enough about the verse to comment on this.

What's the actual context behind the star feat again?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

It's the same feat. Maybe I'm just not knowledgeable enough about the verse to comment on this.

What's the actual context behind the star feat again?

The Ninjas used a weapon of equal power to the Mega Weapon to blow it away and cancel out sum events Garmadon caused

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I feel like I should just retract myself from this CRT. Because I'm questioning the logic behind the 4-C Rating, and I don't want to turn this into a downgrade.

 

[YmTheSuper]

What's the actual context behind the star feat again?

The 4 Golden Weapons reacted with the Megaweapon to destroy it (which is itself made of 4 golden weapons) and merged with it and then shot into got space creating a star

Also, I'd like to know if my concerns that 4-C is an outlier is valid since it scales way above all other feats the main cast scale to.
The arguments in question:
Outlier argument, Outlier argument 2, response, another response, more responses, anti-feats to support it being an outlier, anti-feats matter because star level is much higher than any other feat that the base ninja could scale to.

 

[YmTheSuper]

and I don't want to turn this into a downgrade.

It's not really a downgrade since 4-C didn't get accepted in the first place it is just still in the profiles for some reason.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

merged with it and then shot into got space creating a star

*It didn't merge the MW, it destroyed the MW