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NiGHTS 2-B Upgrade

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That these worlds exist on another dimensional plane would already be beyond our plane's space and time, although I'm not arguing 1-C here due to the conceptual construct (yet).

Where the humans come from is a comparable world , like the individual worlds in the Night Dimension, going by the meaning of "another" used by Mr Owl.

"No, Nights is set in the actual plane of dreams, called the Night Dimension"

Speaking of which, it is stated that the Night Dimension exists "Next to our 3 dimensional world" in that one scan I should point out.

You took the quote out of context and didn't even have the right words in it DDM. Here's the actual quote:

"According to Team Sonic's thinking, this is a dimension which exists close to our corporeal three-dimensional environment"

Imagine already posted the dev interview stating that it is a reference to either gameplay or the material world, which wouldn't rule out time at all if its a correlation to our plane.

"We just didn't think we'd be able to create interesting gameplay in a completely 3D environment."

The existence of the realms already being outside of our dimension and yet made up of individual comparable dimensions to our dimension is clear here. That the universe in which the humans come from is just a world in context is obvious here if time is proven to be not shared and its dimension to be not of their universe.

The worlds are already proven to be individually temporally disconnected outside of the plane analogy already using the humans world and another world the humans were in, which even Sera has said timelines here work as 2-B, going by how many billions of people are dreaming.

"And you Vistor. Continue your search for your ideya amidst the whirling sea of darkness... forever!"

The human visitors need to be dreaming to stay in the realm as evident by the Alarm Eggs waking them up with a Night Over and them getting in the realm via dreaming. That they can stay there forever to search with their consciousness for Ideya has obvious significant repercussions on how time must work there relative to their world being different in passing because unless these human characters have immortality, they can't live forever and sleep forever, they'd die of old age long before.
 
@Sera

So what do you think that we should do here based on what Medeus replied and the actual evidence hat has been presented by others.
 
As I said before, I'm only here to discuss our standards.

But regarding the revision itself, I don't think Medeus debunked universal-size other than saying it was just a starry sky. I'm not sure how someone can confuse a starry sky with a galaxy, so I'm not sure which is which (I didn't see the video for myself). But the only thing that matters here is the size of the worlds and whether or not the entire Night Dimension is separate from the material world.
 
This thread...went places. I lost track for a bit there but aren't the main argument from both sides still are as follows:

For side thinks that the "world of dreams" or Night Dimension is a plane close to our corporeal 3-D environment. This world should be 2-B because it consists of the dream worlds of countless people and each of these dream "worlds" are separate universes.

Against side thinks that each of the dream "worlds" are not separate universes. They are multi-galaxy sized because of a footage that contained a disc shaped structure that could be identified as a galaxy. And that all these different dream worlds constitute a single universe, i.e. the Night Dimension that exists close to the real material universe.
 
Yep. That's basically the argument and counter-argument.

Although I agree with Sera about the size and separation from the material world being important, is the upper-end of 3-B really enough to be considered universe-sized for a pocket realm? Seems like a double standard of sorts.
 
See, the thing is there has to be two different standards in this case. In the physical universe, billions of galaxies is still just a fraction of the observable universe. Half of that is even just 3-B+. But, if we're talking about separate realms of that size it seems to already be the standard that we accept them as universal in scale (due to the additional context of time-space).

I know if someone had the feat of "destroyed billions of galaxies" would be 3-B, but in the case of a pocket realm or alternate dimension, expecting there to be outright confirmed to be two trillion galaxies or an 8.8e26 meter diameter (93 GLY) doesn't seem to be the current standard based on how other verses were considered this size with the additional context. As part of the material world, it's definitely just 3-B though.
 
Mephistus said:
That these worlds exist on another dimensional plane would already be beyond our plane's space and time, although I'm not arguing 1-C here due to the conceptual construct (yet).

Where the humans come from is a comparable world , like the individual worlds in the Night Dimension, going by the meaning of "another" used by Mr Owl.

"No, Nights is set in the actual plane of dreams, called the Night Dimension"

Speaking of which, it is stated that the Night Dimension exists "Next to our 3 dimensional world" in that one scan I should point out.

You took the quote out of context and didn't even have the right words in it DDM. Here's the actual quote:

"According to Team Sonic's thinking, this is a dimension which exists close to our corporeal three-dimensional environment"

Imagine already posted the dev interview stating that it is a reference to either gameplay or the material world, which wouldn't rule out time at all if its a correlation to our plane.

"We just didn't think we'd be able to create interesting gameplay in a completely 3D environment."

The existence of the realms already being outside of our dimension and yet made up of individual comparable dimensions to our dimension is clear here. That the universe in which the humans come from is just a world in context is obvious here if time is proven to be not shared and its dimension to be not of their universe.

The worlds are already proven to be individually temporally disconnected outside of the plane analogy already using the humans world and another world the humans were in, which even Sera has said timelines here work as 2-B, going by how many billions of people are dreaming.

"And you Vistor. Continue your search for your ideya amidst the whirling sea of darkness... forever!"

The human visitors need to be dreaming to stay in the realm as evident by the Alarm Eggs waking them up with a Night Over and them getting in the realm via dreaming. That they can stay there forever to search with their consciousness for Ideya has obvious significant repercussions on how time must work there relative to their world being different in passing because unless these human characters have immortality, they can't live forever and sleep forever, they'd die of old age long before.
Click to expand...
Anyone seeing this comment explaining they are universes?
 
@Sera Are you saying that if a dimension shows the presence of multiple galaxies in it, it should be assumed to be universe-sized?
 
@AKM sama

The number of galaxies should range in the billions. Anything less is still 3-B. That seems to be the standard, I mean I'm not entirely sure but other verses have gotten by with less than two trillion.
 
I honestly think that's an oversight on the community's behalf, but I'm unsure of the staff opinion. I know 4-A size realms have been questioned several times but not 3-A ones.

Since it's mostly unrelated to this revision itself, you might want to make a thread about it since there seems to be no clarification on site about his. I checked the Attack Potency page, Tier System page, and the Large Size page and couldn't find anything.
 
You have a good point... it may be an oversight that we've missed for years. But I'm not sure.
 
Probably should wait on anything Nights related till after 2-B discussions are over. The thread is taking a detour at the moment.
 
Yeah, don't derail the thread or else a second one will have to be made. In fact, don't even respond to this and let's just wait for this to continue.
 
@All staff members

So what should we do here?
 
Well, unless the worlds can be confirmed/debunked to be universal sized (and separate) this discussion is pointless.

Meaning:

1. The "galaxies" shown before need to be evaluated again.

2. Another world needs to be shown to contain galaxies.

If the first requirement is checked off, we have evidence for Low 2-C (due to further context). If the second is checked off as well, we have evidence for 2-B.
 
I am in agreement with Sera, pretty sure either Op, Seed and Mephisto can show those galaxies to prove their point
 
Mephistus said:
Here's multiple galaxies with the clear disc shapes.
https://youtu.be/eFxH6-g8FGQ?t=556

If the world of the main setting was referring to their planet or even singular galaxy, there wouldn't be the word another in front of it if its in an inclusive collective group and the size is multi-galactic sized via just visuals and along with the equivalency between the cosmic settings. The definition context wouldn't be different between their world and the other worlds they visit if "another" is used. They call the individual realms "a/this world " many, many times and not just dream world.

Anyway, the individual worlds each having different timelines shiz looks apparent enough and frankly i feel the OP should be addressing arguments here rather than other members since they are bringing it up lol so I'm not gonna bother with this anymore unless a proper refute is brought up.
Click to expand...
 
Mephistus said:
When you hear terms like "another world" typically you'd equate it's a universe by default if individual traits of a "world" are cosmic in scope eg a single world holds multiple galaxies with no real spatial end in sight and a complete copy parallel world exists detailing up to the fricking night sky.
In this context it's already calling the main setting a world, adding the scope is that collective defined size of being multi- galactic sized and not defined as planet, which of course we would say is a universe. So when Owl talks about another world it's explaining it's yet another setting that has equivalent qualities.

Thus,that would make it a universe as well. People like to play mental gymnastics about these things when a lot of times simple context should lead us to an easy conclusion.

The quote was in the same video that was posted by OP about the timeline being different between worlds:

https://youtu.be/r_NnCkXt7KQ?t=2263

"And you Vistor. Continue your search for your ideya amidst the whirling sea of darkness... forever!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_NnCkXt7KQ&feature=youtu.be&t=5000

"And you Vistor. Continue your search for your ideya amidst the whirling sea of darkness... forever!"

Time works differently if you go to a different world, the hub world and the connected worlds via door portals itself is cut off from their world if they can search "forever" in one of the different worlds with their consciousness and not die of old age while their human body in their world is asleep during the duration.

Having separate timelines for each world is definitely a thing here like in Narnias case (lollwooddoorportals) and world here is being used in the context of cosmic proportions and a way to refer to duplicate settings.
Click to expand...
 
Where the humans come from is a comparable world , like the individual worlds in the Night Dimension, going by the meaning of "another" used by Mr Owl.

This is the only thing that could be interpreted as them being universe-sized since the same phrase "another world" was used for both the regular universe and a dream world.

The rest of the stuff related to time is only secondary as Sera went in detail earlier how a single universe can have multiple realms where time can work differently.

Now the counter argument for that point is something I pointed out in the beginning too. The same word "world" was also used by the writer to refer to the entire Night dimension in the scan posted by Mephistus. So am I to say that the regular universe and individual dream worlds are comparable because "world" was used for both? Or the regular universe and the whole Night dimension are comparable because "world" was used for both. It can't be both.
 
@AKM "Another world" refers to the comparison between the regular universe and Helen's/Will 's Dream worlds. So world could be used as an comparison there. Now, whether the dreams within Helen's / Will's compensate as realities due to them also being compared to the regular universe by Mr.Owl later on is a whole different argument. But, here they are comparing Helen's/Will's dream world in comparison to the regular universe. So I believe your first part of that is safer than the second IMO.
 
I didn't quite see a galaxy in the second video unless you can screen shot the specific image on Imgur and point to where it is. I see stars, and rainbow like backgrounds, but not spirals. Anyway the third paragraph in this sca still says it like this.

Nights is set in the world of dreams. Not dreams themselves, or the all the levels would keep changing location all the time and you'd never be able to tell what's going on. And just as you'd be about to complete it, you'd wake up. No, Nights is set in the actual plane of dreams called the Night dimension. According to Sonic Team's thinking this is a dimension that exists close to our corporal three-dimensional environment. It has, they say, no shape. Sega are taking their tip from German Parapsychologist Freidrich Hoist's text "Traum", which states Night Dimension is shaped by the constantly shifting input of the collective human conscious (or unconscious that would be) present.

Based on this very text, Sonic Team is simply comparing the entirety of Night Dimension to the Universe. Which could make it 3-A or Low 2-C depending on context. And effecting both dreams and reality could still be 2-C, which would still be an upgrade. But not seeing anything worthy of 2-B.
 
It's right there in the windows, it's literal noty hard to see

Repeating ad nauseum doesn't make it suddenly right, all it's just talking about Nights is moving inti multiple dreams, stop twisting evidence with mental gynastics to fit your vision, also this straight up says the dreams are separated not debunking anything said so far about it, in fact it would support it more

Night dimension and each dream are parralel to each other, thus all being universes, supporting It more using your new logic
 
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