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NiGHTS 2-B Upgrade

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Gilad Hyperstar said:
The interview literally stated that the dream worlds mirror the waking world down to the last detail, so it does mirrors reality.

This is the quote that explains how the dream worlds mirrors reality:

Iizuka: Since this was a world of "dreams" we were depicting—the mysterious world of the unconscious—we had to understand the whole thing before we could begin creating it. Take an island. If it's a real island, it's easy enough to create. Once we settled on the "dream" concept, though, it meant we had to design and create every detail of that island ex nihilo.
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What? How did you make that giant leap? The quote doesn't even comes close to saying what you interpreted from that. The quote is saying that since it was a mysterious world of dreams they had to understand the whole thing before constructing it. That it's not like creating an island where they can just copy a real island, it's about a totally imaginary place so they had to create it out of nothing.

The part "dream worlds mirror the waking world" does not exist in that quote in any way, shape or form.
 
Yeah the quote outright is describing "The World of Dreams" being a mirror to the Waking World not the individual dreams themselves. Implying very much just a repetition of what I've been saying. Furthermore, Kepekley on that other thread is kind of elaborating and basically saying "Individual worlds showing a at least a few galaxies inside it" is not enough to proof that they're universes.

So in other words, still not seeing saying anything beyond 2-C.
 
http://www.nightsintodreams.com/wp-content/gallery/nights-storybook-en/45n46.jpg

The universe/different dimension the kids come from is a singular world in the context of their cosmology.

Again, the worlds making up the Night Dimension in context don't have scans/justification that they aren't talking about the same term here when there are three comparisons made with the world term in mind in respect to the world the kids come from to their worlds made by the Nightopians from by a knowledgeable character, Mr. Owl. To assume that this isn't 2-B otherwise needs context via scans or quotes from the side that wants to debunk this notion. The assumption that it is talking about the same term is definitely more favourable, if not outright more logical.

To go off the individual worlds visual size having multiple galaxies, its pretty straightforward which definition logically fits here and it aint 'the planet Earth' here for the size of the individual dimensions, the only other definition used in context is the plain comparison to the kid's home dimension.
 
We sent the opposers to the shadow realm, we still have 2-B rather than No 2-B, I don't have high thoughts for the "possibly" part, that can be dealt with in another time another place another thread but i do agree it should be a definite tier.
 
Sigh, why do I have to keep doing this?

DarkDragonMedeus said:
Yeah the quote outright is describing "The World of Dreams" being a mirror to the Waking World not the individual dreams themselves. Implying very much just a repetition of what I've been saying. Furthermore, Kepekley on that other thread is kind of elaborating and basically saying "Individual worlds showing a at least a few galaxies inside it" is not enough to proof that they're universes.
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Mephistus said:
"What they do have, is the ability to see the consciousness of each visitor (dreamers from our world), through Ideya. When visitors arrive, the Nightopians can see their consciousness and recreate the happy world that is hidden deep inside. They're why Nightopians, who don't have the capacity for intelligent thought, can sing, dance, and even go fishing."
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Implying they recreate the dreamer's ideal happy universe/world.
 
@All staff members

Are you fine with "At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-B"?
 
i'd prefer just 2-C, Possibly 2-B, it's 100% clear it's a world reflected upon the full universe, low 2-C would be confusing and odd. but at least we have 2-B although i'd like a definite tier rating.
 
I am mostly neutral about this. Let's wait to see what the other staff members think.
 
Can you list the staff who support this?
 
Guys! Do not engage. 1 staff doesn't agree, that's fine. SeraEX and AKM Sama do support the possibility rating. We just need to wait for a few more staff.
 
Sera was the one who suggested "At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-B. AKM Sama said he was okay with it, but personally thought I was being more reasonable overall and said my At least 3-A, possibly 2-C reason seemed more reasonable. Matt and Pritti also for the most part agreed that it was only stated the entirity of Night Dimension is a Universe and not any of the individual dream worlds. Both the Interview and the scan both outright say Night Dimension is what mirrors the real world and not individual dreams. And the only argument left was simply the Owl calls Night Dimension, the Real World, and the individual Dream worlds all worlds in the same speech. But that doesn't exactly mean they all mean the same thing in every use of the word world.

And I only said I was okay with it if other staff members are, but most of them still seem to agree with my sentiments overall.
 
> And the only argument left was simply the Owl calls Night Dimension, the Real World, and the individual Dream worlds all worlds in the same speech. But that doesn't exactly mean they all mean the same thing in every use of the word world.

That would be true if the Owl used the word "World" to describe something we know for sure isn't a universe. He does use the word "World" to describe the Human universe.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
And I only said I was okay with it if other staff members are, but most of them still seem to agree with my sentiments overall.
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Only Matt agrees with your sentiments, both Sera and AKM sama are okay so it isn't "most"
 
Welcome To The Shadow Realm Jimbo, SeraEX And AKM seem good with it and that's backed up and accepted by 99% of the supporters. after getting the 2-C Possibly 2-B this thread is in the coffin.
 
In Sailor Moon, Hoshi was used to describe stars, planets, and people, does that mean a bunch of civilians are stars? Castlevania has also used World to describe the Universe and a bunch of pocket realities as well, that doesn't make every single one of those "Quantum spaces" universes.

Saying they aren't against it doesn't mean it's their final agreement. It just means they're willing to roll with it.
 
Your arguments for 2-C make no sense and have already been either argued or disputed, with you failing to either respond or counter to some points made. Which leaves things in a poor light for your arguments, sorry to say. As you've told people plenty of times before, the amount of people agreeing doesn't matter if your points are disputed.

So "At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-B" is the best choice unless you want to continue this in a part 2 for this discussion.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
In Sailor Moon, Hoshi was used to describe stars, planets, and people, does that mean a bunch of civilians are stars? Castlevania has also used World to describe the Universe and a bunch of pocket realities as well, that doesn't make every single one of those "Quantum spaces" universes.
Saying they aren't against it doesn't mean it's their final agreement. It just means they're willing to roll with it.
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except NiGHTS hasn't used words and terms to interchange planets and stars, so that's a non factor here.

and as Shake said I, User And Mephistus debunked these redundant circular claims 1000 feet under. welcome to the shadow realm jimbo, although I admire your willingness to converse/interact and talk with us but despite that 2-C, Possibly 2-B is pretty much okay with the majority of users involved in this thread.
 
Except they weren't disputed, the "Dream worlds being universe sized" were the ones being disputed. Because 90% if the arguments were people saying things that don't line up with what the actual scans say. Only Night Dimension and Waking World are Universes, everything else is just a pocket reality smaller than the Universe.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Except they weren't disputed, the "Dream worlds being universe sized" were the ones being disputed. Because 90% if the arguments were people saying things that don't line up with what the actual scans say. Only Night Dimension and Waking World are Universes, everything else is just a pocket reality smaller than the Universe.
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nothing is canonically shown to be pocket realiities, you also keep forgetting that material and word of god agrees that NiGHTS dimension is a Dream residing on the plane of dreams which contains dreams of everyone (including us) which are also called worlds in the same context NiGHTS Dimension is referred to, it'd be different if it is talked as a planet or a star as a default or much more put through than universe but it isn't, and honestly everyone is tired of this, this thread has gone on long enough and was stretched far longer than it needed to be, if we had more energy and much more reasonable time was had we'd debate further than low 2-C, possibly 2-B. sorry jimbo.
 
The scan and interview is outright describe "The Entire Plane of Dreams" as the thing that exists next to the Waking World. I don't need to repeat myself as anyone can scroll up to read it all.
 
> In Sailor Moon, Hoshi was used to describe stars, planets, and people, does that mean a bunch of civilians are stars? Castlevania has also used World to describe the Universe and a bunch of pocket realities as well, that doesn't make every single one of those "Quantum spaces" universes.

In those cases, we judge the lowest end of what the word was used for. Sailor moon, civilians, so the word doesn't mean stars. Castlevania, I don't know, were those pocket dimensions also called pocket dimensions along with "World"? Then world doesn't describe universes.

What is the low end for "World" in NIGHTS?
 
No one really uses the word "Pocket dimension" in fiction, they just used the word dimension or world. They were just all called worlds or dimensions, though the creator did called them quantum spaces that "Mirror our world" and they had starry skies.

Also, even mass posting and making a post just to say, "This is stonewalling" is stonewalling.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
No one really uses the word "Pocket dimension" in fiction, they just used the word dimension or world. They were just all called worlds or dimensions, though the creator did called them quantum spaces that "Mirror our world" and they had starry skies.
Click to expand...
yes fiction uses pocket dimension, and bringing other franchises that does not have a similar case is red herring and gish gallop. NiGHTS Dimension is a Dream, it's called a world, other dreams are called worlds in the same context. I don't understand how this isn't registering in your mind.
 
Most people and staff already agree with the proposal, arguing circular arguments is stonewalling when there's already a conclusions coming

Also, even mass posting and making a post just to say, "This is stonewalling" is stonewalling.

Yeah, that's what I am saying you are doing, I just want the changes to be applied
 
To help this proceed further, can somebody write a summarised list of the arguments that you do not think that Medeus has addressed, so he can take a look at and possibly respond to them?
 
I want to clarify somethings here.

>The term pocket dimension is indeed used a lot in fiction and it doesn't necessarily contradict a world being a universe.For example in Archie Sonic the Zone of Silence is referred to as a pocket dimensions but is still called a universe.

>Mirroring our world would be mirroring a universe if they have starry skies.Assuming other wise would be a bigger stretch than assuming they aren't.For example we accept the Human World in Bayonetta as a universe as it's literally meant to be a representation of our universe and has several stars and celestial imagery in the sky.Mirroring our world would undoubtedly be a universe if it has a starry sky because it's not referring to other objects that would be referred to as World because the Earth isn't containing a starry sky.
 
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