NiGHTS 2-B Upgrade

[TheImagineBreaker121212]

To help this proceed further, can somebody write a summarised list of the arguments that you do not think that Medeus has addressed, so he can take a look at and possibly respond to them?

we did that about a literal month ago (or mkrore) that's how long something this simple lasted, honestly this lead into another thread into another thread involving staff. this needs to end, NiGHTS gets low 2-C to 2-C, possibly 2-B and most of us are satisfied, we don't disturb the 99% percent to accomodate for the 1% that's silly. we won this debate fair and square, barely any derails if there is any, and stayed courteous, the W deserves a Reward, and that's the suggestion SeraEX gave us which although is underwhelming because we blieve in exact 2-B NiGHTS it's close enough to welcomly accept.

 

[Antvasima]

This isn't about winning debates, just about reaching an agreement.

Anyway, we have almost reached 501 posts, which is the maximum, so we quickly need a new thread with an easy to understand summary in the beginning.

 

[TheImagineBreaker121212]

the point of a debate is acception to argue the topic at hand, if your arguments are refuted and the fallacies are hence passed, the opponent is in default obliged to concede hence granting a W and if every witness observes and sees that and the person still declines by methods of stonewalling and going in circles then it's a concession via rejoinder and ad nausem.

so debate tactics don't apply here? despite being a debating environment? I could've swore I saw a fallacy page here.

ant; you can't reach an agreement with everyone, if there's a greater percent that agrees and then even converses with the others to the last atom and still takes the medal, then what? expecting the valid 99% to stoop down and keep continuing this loop of infinity is just something that doesn't hit home.

the point is even taking your statement for what it is, again I will say this: like 99% of the people agree here and will stand for a 2-C, Possibly 2-B rating. Medeus And Matt is the only ones still looking back and forth imo.

 

[Antvasima]

We have now reached 493 posts. When the counter reaches 501, the discussion will be over, so I recommend that somebody collaborates, and does it quickly.

And yes, if you think that this wiki is about "winning"/beating down "opponents" via a war of attrition, you have completely misunderstood what kind of environment that we are striving towards, and it might be better if you go somewhere else instead. We should aim towards peaceful collaboration to try to figure out the most reliable statistics for different characters, not the most exaggerated ones.

 

[00potato]

There already was collaboration and most people here agreed with this. There will often be 1-2 people in a thread who disagree with things here and that is fine. (Example Sonic upgrades.) but to stall this out unnecessarily is just a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Theuser789]

There's no need for another thread, every staff outside DDM agrees with the proposition and he even agrees with it if most do, which they do, only Matt thinks not and he hasn't given much of anything at all here, and even then that's just one, keeping arguing when most people already agree especialy circular arguments already argued is stonewalling that isn't needed

 

[Antvasima]

Again, we do not have enough space to properly finish this. You need to create a new thread immediately. Sorry.

 

[00potato]

This is pretty much finished though. There is not a single reason for it not to be.

 

[TheImagineBreaker121212]

We have now reached 493 posts. When the counter reaches 501, the discussion will be over, so I recommend that somebody collaborates, and does it quickly.
And yes, if you think that this wiki is about "winning"/beating down "opponents" via a war of attrition, you have completely misunderstood what kind of environment that we are striving towards, and it might be better if you go somewhere else instead. We should aim towards peaceful collaboration to try to figure out the most reliable statistics for different characters, not the most exaggerated ones.

you mean with matt and ddm? uhhh we're trying to get them on our roots, this is exactly what I mean, when 99% are comfortable don't go over and struggle over the lacking 1% it creates more problems than it solves. and there's no need for another thread and if there was, it's no problem we'll run through it like this one. And I never said it was a war of anything, the previous comment is saying that if 99% are satisfied then 1% being hindered is a non-factor, we were peacefully collaborating actually imo, in a collaborative environment the system of debates still apply, people debate here all the time to get to a conclusion, we have given the most reliable stats Ant, we did it quickly and gracely too yet this entire thread last 2 months man, 2 months!. this is a literal "how many times do we have to teach you this old man?" moment with DDM, his claims were got, we attested for a argument, it was extended to long periods of time (when not necessary nor needed), long story short we goto our points through Six Nine times, 99% agrees with SeraEX's proposal of 2-C, Possibly 2-B. we been over this man, DDM is beating a dead horse and just going through ad circulum, infinitum and as others have stated stonewalling when our refutes were properly a given and correct. this is becoming a waste of time, it's like having a A+ report card, perfect regents and SAT scores and not being able to go to a college of your choosing because of the angry boomer as a professor doesn't like you but everyone else on campus does.

 

[Antvasima]

It is very likely that you will get your way in the new thread, but that will likely not happen unless you start it immediately instead of pointlessly arguing here.

Edit: You now have only 1 post left to post a link to a continuation. Do not waste it.

 

[00potato]

Are you even reading what we are typing? You haven't given a single reason as to why we shouldn't let this go through as it is. The next thread will be made if needed if that is what you want but this shouldn't even be required since the upgrade was mostly accepted.

 

[TheImagineBreaker121212]

It is very likely that you will get your way in the new thread, but that will likely not happen unless you start it immediately instead of pointlessly arguing here.

it's not even my way anymore jimbo, it's kind of "our" way and it's not an aggressive force or anything just the more ethical here, we've complied, played the cards right, a considerable number of staff, knowledgeable members and just about everyone else even the ones that began this fray with arguments besides ddm and matt are in agreement with us now. it's not pointless, nor is the arguments, you act as if it's a derail, no..... this is right on task and into the topic. i'm not trying to offend you or anyone here, but i'm a realist and I got to break it to you flat it's pretty clear 2-C, Possibly 2-B is a given (with members, supportive staff and knowledgeable members). i'll (or someone else) will make a thread when it is time (if it comes to be that time), I mean seriously there's not that much to do, the hard parts are over and behind us.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Someone messaged me on community central to also give his side, and I also think he's being reasonable here. Also, Sera has basically admitted she hasn't really read the interview in depth and was just rolling by what people were saying and doesn't fully understand the details. Not that it's her fault, but still.

It's already mentioned in the sca and the interview that it's describing the "World of Dreams" to be a mirror to the Waking World. Which only the Waking World, and the entirity of the World of Dreams have enough statements to be entire univeres. None of the individual Dream Worlds are stated to be universes. Owl says things like "Your Dream World" and uses "World to describe the Waking World, which also could refer to Earth as they humans are obviously from Earth. But he never said their Dream Worlds were the same size or shape as the Waking World. Only the entirety of Dream Worlds have that statement about being the same size as the Real World.

I've been reading every world you guys have been typing for a while now, and I honestly feel like I'm one of the few people who are actually reading the full details. We aren't "Angry Boomers", we're just doing our jobs to see if they meet the guidelines. And the circular arguments, bold accusations, and many other things aren't helping the cause. Also, if you're going to use "Angry Boomer" as an argument. I could turn this around and say you guys are acting like a bunch of aggressive stoners throwing rocks at public speakers just for trying to manage things peacefully; albeit saying things that are unpopular. "Killing the messenger" is never a plausible tactic.

I agree that a new thread should be made, as we are pretty much at the 500 post at this point. Anyway, we have no ill will towards you guys or the character, but these are very common misinterpretations spread by people. Sera has never really agreed to anything but only suggested stuff, and honestly doesn't even want to get involved in you know what. And AKM Sama simply said he was fine with it, but overall was leaning towards me making sense.

Edit: New thread here