NEP2 and possibly more for Rimuru Tempest [WN TenSura]

[Astral_Trinity439]

Hello there, this will be my first thread related to TenSura directly on this wiki, so let's start.

First of all, the definition of NEP2:

1. Idealistic Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence. These characters often have some form of Nonduality due to their lack of binary existence. Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence.

To start off, it's already been accepted that Turn Null is the Primordial Energy that was there before anything and everything, granting it NEP1.

However, what was ignored was that the "everything" already includes a NEP1 structure.

So to say, the Forbidden Void and it's negative energy is what is actually conventional non-existence[NEP1]. It has also been shown that existence and non-existence, positive and negative energy, are in a clashing/opposite relationship, both of these cancel out each other, and what remains after both existence and non-existence[forbidden Void] vanishes, is Turn Null, the state of 0.

In binary Logic, if -1 is the Forbidden Void, and 1 is Existence, than Turn Null would be something that is neither of these, in other words, it is beyond Conventional non-existence, and actually NEP2.

Edit : Also, [positive and negative]energy is not something physical, as it makes up Spiritual Lifeforms that lack a physical body, and are pure energy beings.

As turn null is non-existent to literally the whole world, it would include anything, from the Great Spirits, to many other aspects, from which he would gain:

Aspect Types :

• Type 1 : Spiritual Non-Existent : Great Spirit of Sky is information, and everything in TenSura is made up of information, including the soul and mind. As turn null exceeds information, meaning Rimuru's Information [in-verse] is non-existent, it means his Soul is also non-existent as souls are a lump of information.
• Type 2 : Conceptual Non-Existent : Same reason as before
• Type 3 : Mental Non-Existent : Soul and mind are made of information, furthermore, as stated in his profile, his "memories" are stored in his soul, which is non-existent. Resultantly, he gains this aspect type as well.

(Rimuru's memories are stored in his astral body, and as long as he retains his conscious soul and memory, he can be revived even when his body is completely damaged. In other words, he can think with his soul and is thus immune to mind control effects) -- Resistances Tag for Demon Slime Key

• Type 4 : Information : Obvious, but remains the same as before.
• Type 5 : Others :He has multiple other things that are Non-existent, such as:
  • Energy : Great Spirits are "Pure Energy", while Turn Null is a "Void energy" that precedes and is non-existent to the great spirits.
  • Power : "Skills" that are essentially his "Powers and abilities", are made up of information, and inscribed within one's soul, as his information and soul are non-existent, his skills will be as well.

These are all aspects I could find FOR NOW. From this, he will have immunity to regular Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation[Type 1], Information Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, and Power Nullification.

Alternative possible upgrades:

Beyond Dimensional Existence

Type 1: Characters whose nature is defined by lacking spatiotemporal features without necessarily being superior to any of them.

Type 2: Characters whose nature is defined by lacking spatiotemporal features and being superior to them in nature. These characters aren't necessarily superior to spacetime on every level, but just within the scope which they are shown.

Now, we know that Turn Null existed prior to, and after the destruction of the world, including the destruction of the Great Spirits.
Now, as we may already know, Great Spirit of Sky is the conception of space, meanwhile the Great Spirit of time is the conception of time within the verse. Furthermore, Turn Null[Nothingness] existed even before the Dual concepts of Light and Darkness, that existed before the conception of space and time. This would grant Turn Null, and resultantly Rimuru, who can make his body out of Turn Null, Beyond Dimensional Existence [Type which is agreed upon 1] depending on if we treat Turn Null as superior to these concepts or just the absence of them. Added --> This upgrade[BDE] is suggestively for his EOST key, not true dragon key, though suggestions and thoughts are much appreciated ;D

Conclusive :
-WN Rimuru's True Dragon key gains Nonexistent Physiology [Type 2] as he can make his body out of Turn Null energy too.

• Gains Non-existent erasure, as he can destroy and recreate the world, which would technically involve the forbidden void and its non-existence
• Gains resistance to Non-Existent Erasure as he has resistance to all abilities he has acquired/analyzed.
• Details should be added that his type of NEP2 can survive the destruction of his plane of existence, as he wasn't affected by the destruction of the conception of space and time[great spirits] of his plane of existence.
• BDE[Any type that is agreed upon] should be added as well.

Edit : Note that am not explicitly stating that he should be a certain type, I said "whatever he qualifies for", meaning if he qualifies for type 1, he will get it, and IF[let's just say, IF] he ever does it with type 2, than that. I'm not saying he should be a specific type, am saying he should be the type that we agree upon. That can be either type 1, OR type 2. If you want me to completely remove type 2 from the OP, sure, say it, and I'll do it, but don't be a sicko and assume things ;D

• BDE1 should be added to his EOST Profile

Agree with All :
ashen [With everything technically since BDE2 is optional]
TheprOO11


Agree with NEP related stuff :
Tempestdragon6,
MrTim,
Incomprehensibleexistence,
ashen,
BlackCat,
Dark_Soul20189,
Velvian_can
Wikisource [Except Aspect 5 on <<Power>>]
Dog3352 [Except Aspect 5 on <<Power>>]
TheprOO11



Agreed with BDE[Any type agreed upon-- will be specified] :
ashen [with BDE1]
Wikisource [With BDE1]
TheprOO11
Shiraito983 [With BDE1]


Neutral :
Tempestdragon6 [With BDE1],
MrTim [With BDE1],
Incomprehensibleexistence [With BDE1],
ashen [With NEP on "Power" -- leaning towards disagreeing],
BlackCat [With BDE1],
Dark_Soul20189 [With BDE1, leaning towards agreeing],
Mizuki67 [With NEP2]
Wikisource [With Aspect 5 on <<Power>>]
Dog3352 [With BDE1 and Aspect 5 on <<Power>>]


Disagree :

 

[AdamVhenJP]

They're character BDE already by Ultima's staff Eh, not matter if only a Veldanava (Light Novel), I think which is type 1

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

They're character BDE already by Ultima's staff Eh, not matter if only a Veldanava (Light Novel), I think which is type 1

BDE[Any type that is agreed upon] should be added as well.

Means what is agreed upon will be added, be it type 1 or type 2. I never said it's type 2 in particular


Also pretty sure LN Veldanava has Type 2 as in his profile

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Ah
I keep saying how his Nep is flawed now you jump in to create even more of this making it worse

To start off, it's already been accepted that Turn Null is the Primordial Energy that was there before anything and everything, granting it NEP1.

However, what was ignored was that the "everything" already includes a NEP1 structure.

Even if this was a thing, a nonexistence creating nonexistence doesn't make his nature type 2, you need more evidence on the nature of that said character in being neither nothing nor something
Which is why they talked about it having some form of nonduality.

So to say, the Forbidden Void and it's negative energy is what is actually conventional non-existence[NEP1]. It has also been shown that existence and non-existence, positive and negative energy, are in a clashing/opposite relationship, both of these cancel out each other, and what remains after both existence and non-existence[forbidden Void] vanishes, is Turn Null, the state of 0.

The positive and negative energy have nothing to do with positive being 1 or negative being 0
Its all some real life logical phenomenon

Negative energy is a concept used in physics to explain the nature of certain fields, including the gravitational field and various quantum field effects.

You need more than this to make it nonexistence
Even turn null isn't real nonexistence but rather chaos.

Beyond Dimensional Existence


Now, we know that Turn Null existed prior to, and after the destruction of the world, including the destruction of the Great Spirits.
Now, as we may already know, Great Spirit of Sky is the conception of space, meanwhile the Great Spirit of time is the conception of time within the verse. Furthermore, Turn Null[Nothingness] existed even before the Dual concepts of Light and Darkness, that existed before the conception of space and time. This would grant Turn Null, and resultantly Rimuru, who can make his body out of Turn Null, Beyond Dimensional Existence [Type which is agreed upon] depending on if we treat Turn Null as superior to these concepts or just the absence of them.

Conclusive :
-WN Rimuru's True Dragon key gains Nonexistent Physiology [Type 2] as he can make his body out of Turn Null energy too.

• Gains Non-existent erasure, as he can destroy and recreate the world, which would technically involve the forbidden void and its non-existence
• Gains resistance to Non-Existent Erasure as he has resistance to all abilities he has acquired/analyzed.
• Details should be added that his type of NEP2 can survive the destruction of his plane of existence.
• BDE[Any type that is agreed upon] should be added as well.

Even if you assume turn null doesn't have any essence of time and space its still not rewarded as such
The only character that have BDE in slime is just Veldanava (Light novel)
Just like he said

They're character BDE already by Ultima's staff Eh, not matter if only a Veldanava (Light Novel), I think which is type 1

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Even if this was a thing, a nonexistence creating nonexistence doesn't make his nature type 2, you need more evidence on the nature of that said character in being neither nothing nor something
Which is why they talked about it having some form of nonduality.

It didn't just create it, turn null[nothingness] existed before the world which would logically include the forbidden void too.

The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence......[Skipped] Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence.

Turn Null fills all of these requirements

The positive and negative energy have nothing to do with positive being 1 or negative being 0
Its all some real life logical phenomenon

I'm merely using "1" and "-1" as examples for existence and non-existence, while turn null is 0 w.r.t both of these and is non-existent to both of them-- Nothingness existed before everything, including the World itself, "The world" would include everything, even the forbidden void. The forbidden void is what the "negative energy" is, which also disappears and is brought to 0 when the universe ends.

You need more than this to make it nonexistence
Even turn null isn't real nonexistence but rather chaos.

It may be, but "chaos" itself can be nonexistence

That is, power over disharmony, confusion, disorder, and destructiveness in their most pure and vivid forms. Chaos is opposed to order, it may be related to nonexistence (state of the universe before order or creation)

It never said "it can never be non-existence" or along those lines. It being Chaos has nothing to do here. Heck I've seen some profiles with both Chaos Manip and NEP related abilities.

Even if you assume turn null doesn't have any essence of time and space its still not rewarded as such
The only character that have BDE in slime is just Veldanava (Light novel)
Just like he said

Again, seems like you didn't read my part either.
I said "any type that will be agreed upon". Also, as far as I see it, from Ultima's blog that I've read, this won't qualify for type 2, but doesn't mean it can't qualify for type 1 either, as something like "Superiority", that is Ultima's main point, was never required for Type 1

Type 1: Characters whose nature is defined by lacking spatiotemporal features without necessarily being superior to any of them.

It is simply lacking Spatiotemporal features, but doesn't require qualitative or any form of superiority. In no way am I arguing to Ultima, I agree to what he says, completely, but his topic is related to BDE2, meanwhile in this I explicitly mentioned "Any type that he qualifies for".

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Added aspect types to the OP

 

[Tempestdragon6]

... following

 

[Tempestdragon6]

Hello everyone,

I've been following the Rimuru Tempest Content Revision discussion, and kudos to Astral_Trinity439 for the in-depth analysis. Here's where I stand:

Agreeing on:

1. Nonexistent Physiology (NEP2): I find the exploration of Rimuru's existence, especially in relation to Turn Null and the Forbidden Void, to be compelling. The breakdown of spiritual, conceptual, and mental non-existence adds depth.

2. Aspect Types: The breakdown of Aspect Types, especially in terms of immunity to various manipulations, is thought-provoking and well-presented.

Neutral on:

1. Beyond Dimensional Existence (BDE): While the connection between Turn Null and the destruction of the world is highlighted, I remain neutral on whether this qualifies as Beyond Dimensional Existence. More exploration of Turn Null's interaction with Light and Darkness would be beneficial.

Disagreeing on:

1. Positive and Negative Energy: The interpretation of positive and negative energy in the context of Rimuru's non-existence seems to draw a connection that may need more evidence.

2. BDE for True Dragon Key: The argument for Rimuru's True Dragon Key gaining Nonexistent Physiology (Type 2) requires a more cautious approach. A clearer consensus on the type of BDE is needed.

In summary, I appreciate the effort put into the analysis and encourage further discussion and evidence-sharing to refine our understanding of Rimuru's unique characteristics.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Neutral on:

1. Beyond Dimensional Existence (BDE): While the connection between Turn Null and the destruction of the world is highlighted, I remain neutral on whether this qualifies as Beyond Dimensional Existence. More exploration of Turn Null's interaction with Light and Darkness would be beneficial.

Hmm, I honestly would want to rely on staff's input for this too, especially Ultima's[if possible], as he is specialized in this. I asked this question on this thread, let's see his answer

Disagreeing on:

1. Positive and Negative Energy: The interpretation of positive and negative energy in the context of Rimuru's non-existence seems to draw a connection that may need more evidence.

Than I should add more details
Positive and Negative energy are constantly clashing, or say, they behave like dualities, opposing each other, like existence and non-existence, however, I also partially think that these are still something like sub-dualities, or say, one of the unknown dualities in WN. Demon and Angel, Light and Dark, Positivity[existence] and negativity[non-existence]. However am not sure of this tho.
For the scans I said some lines before:

Oh, also, if you're having trouble, you can think of "positive energy" as existence itself, that would make it a lot more easier ;D
And you can take "negative energy" as non-existence, since it's essentially the non-existent energy of a non-existent construct[forbidden void]

• These energies are clashing, cancelling out each other which causes both to disappear, as positive energy causes the universe to expand, while negative energy, opposing it, swallows it up.
• The part about negative energy, so to say, is basically, "it's energy generated by a non-existent NEP1 void, and it clashes with the positive energy of existence, and both null out each other, causing both to return to Turn Null[0].
• So to say, you can take it as existence and non-existence in literal, to make it easier to understand, or you can take it as energies of said said aspects [E and NE]. Hope this helped clear your doubt.

2. BDE for True Dragon Key: The argument for Rimuru's True Dragon Key gaining Nonexistent Physiology (Type 2) requires a more cautious approach. A clearer consensus on the type of BDE is needed.

As essentially both true dragon and EOST key have turn null, and can utilize it, they should be able to have NEP2. The only difference is the amount they can use, which doesn't change much.
I honestly do think BDE should be moved to EOST key, as Rimuru did have a few upgrades between then and his true dragon key. What do you think? Will it be more acceptable if I did that?
As for "if it actually even qualifies", well, I gave my thoughts as how it lacks space and time conceptions etc., but as am not a specialist in this, I'll let a staff member, favorably one that is specialized in BDE things, to evaluate that part

In summary, I appreciate the effort put into the analysis and encourage further discussion and evidence-sharing to refine our understanding of Rimuru's unique characteristics.

Thanks.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

Got your points, and here's my take on the discussion:

BDE Staff Input: Totally on board with waiting for Ultima's input, especially since he specializes in this. Checking in with the staff, Ultima in particular, is a solid move to settle the BDE debate.

Positive and Negative Energy: Your added details on how positive and negative energies clash as dualities, with your analogy of positive energy as existence and negative energy as non-existence, provide clearer insights. This should help address any doubts.

BDE for True Dragon Key: Your breakdown of both True Dragon and EOST keys having Turn Null and the proposal to move BDE to the EOST key, considering potential upgrades, sounds reasonable. Let's see how staff evaluation unfolds.

Your methodical approach and openness to feedback are appreciated. Looking forward to seeing how the discussion evolves!

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Hello everyone,
1. Beyond Dimensional Existence (BDE): While the connection between Turn Null and the destruction of the world is highlighted, I remain neutral on whether this qualifies as Beyond Dimensional Existence. More exploration of Turn Null's interaction with Light and Darkness would be beneficial.

I think turn null's relation with light and darkness aren't much related to BDE, however, I do state that, both Light and Darkness existed before the conception of space and time, and they were the reason why the conception of "Time" came to being. So essentially, Turn Null isn't just preceding space and time, it's preceding something that already precedes said conceptions. Hope this helped!

Also, please specify the Positive and negative energy[something you disagreed on at the point am writing this] part, as that is included in NEP2[which you are agreeing with]. I'm asking this so that I can add it to the agree/disagree/neutral ratio.

Thanks for your input btw, much appreciated!

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Got your points, and here's my take on the discussion:

BDE Staff Input: Totally on board with waiting for Ultima's input, especially since he specializes in this. Checking in with the staff, Ultima in particular, is a solid move to settle the BDE debate.

Agreed, and noted.

Positive and Negative Energy: Your added details on how positive and negative energies clash as dualities, with your analogy of positive energy as existence and negative energy as non-existence, provide clearer insights. This should help address any doubts.

Hmm, glad it did.

BDE for True Dragon Key: Your breakdown of both True Dragon and EOST keys having Turn Null and the proposal to move BDE to the EOST key, considering potential upgrades, sounds reasonable. Let's see how staff evaluation unfolds.

Than you're fine with me putting you on "neutral" on BDE for TD key and OVERALL agreed on NEP2, correct?

 

[Tempestdragon6]

put me on neutral for bde

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Gonna sleep now, hopefully some notable members[and maybe Ultima too] notice this!

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

put me on neutral for bde

Done

 

[Jozaysmith?]

• These energies are clashing, cancelling out each other which causes both to disappear, as positive energy causes the universe to expand, while negative energy, opposing it, swallows it up.
• The part about negative energy, so to say, is basically, "it's energy generated by a non-existent NEP1 void, and it clashes with the positive energy of existence, and both null out each other, causing both to return to Turn Null[0].
• So to say, you can take it as existence and non-existence in literal, to make it easier to understand, or you can take it as energies of said said aspects [E and NE]. Hope this helped clear your doubt.

That's the role of negative energy, because it swallows up the universe doesn't make it a nonexistent power or power of Void
This literally happen IRL, positive annihilate negative killing both, antimatter and matter also do the same
So..mm.

1. Nonexistent Physiology (NEP2): I find the exploration of Rimuru's existence, especially in relation to Turn Null and the Forbidden Void, to be compelling. The breakdown of spiritual, conceptual, and mental non-existence adds depth.

Like i said existing as "This" doesn't make you "That" without further context, people Like yogiri is the prime example even though i dont want to use other verses to justify another

Again, seems like you didn't read my part either. said "any type that will be agreed upon". Also, as far as I see it, from Ultima's blog that I've read, this won't qualify for type 2, but doesn't mean it can't qualify for type 1 either, as something like "Superiority", that is Ultima's main point, was never required for Type 1

It is simply lacking Spatiotemporal features, but doesn't require qualitative or any form of superiority. In no way am I arguing to Ultima, I agree to what he says, completely, but his topic is related to BDE2, meanwhile in this I explicitly mentioned "Any type that he qualifies for".

That's not how you get BDE, besides why would you assume i didn't read it when i literally quoted it???, lacking spatial temporal features is more than just being someone who momentarily injects energy into himself.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

Gonna sleep now, hopefully some notable members[and maybe Ultima too] notice this!

sleep well then

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

That's the role of negative energy, because it swallows up the universe doesn't make it a nonexistent power or power of Void
This literally happen IRL, positive annihilate negative killing both, antimatter and matter also do the same
So..mm.

Uh... you forgot this?
I'll even quote it:

The fang of darkness that swallows all substances.

It’s darkness magic that brings void to this world and is considered as one of the forbidden spells.

The void let loose in the world doesn’t vanish until it’s negative energy turns null.

Everyone inside the barrier of the magic formation that links the ground and the sky is devoured and their existence is erased.

It clearly shows how this energy is void/NEP1 energy.

Like i said existing as "This" doesn't make you "That" without further context, people Like yogiri is the prime example even though i dont want to use other verses to justify another

That's not how you get BDE, besides why would you assume i didn't read it when i literally quoted it???, lacking spatial temporal features is more than just being someone who momentarily injects energy into himself.

Well, I already asked this question on Ultima's thread, and also, this is not just turn null lacking the conception of space and time, even Rimuru himself was not effected by the world destruction and destruction of said conceptions of space and time. I think this should qualify as "lacking" as he essentially could exist without it, when these conceptions ended.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Like i said existing as "This" doesn't make you "That" without further context, people Like yogiri is the prime example even though i dont want to use other verses to justify another

Again you're clearly ignoring the multiple scans of proof I gave -_-
Not only are you saying Negative energy is anti-matter when it's CLEARLY stated to be the energy of a void, you're also ignoring other examples too.

Also, "this doesn't make you that without further context" the context is literally there, Turn Null is the lack of even the forbidden void and negative energy.

It’s darkness magic that brings void to this world and is considered as one of the forbidden spells.

The void let loose in the world doesn’t vanish until it’s negative energy turns null.

It's literally giving context, that forbidden void vanishes when it's NE is brought to Turn Null. Literally a direct implication, what do you ask for more -_-

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

also, this energy could destroy the world to the point of destroying even the concept of time. Are you saying anti-matter can destroy a concept made of "pure energy", an abstract being? At least that is what your statement implies here...

positive annihilate negative killing both, antimatter and matter also do the same
So..mm.

so... I was wondering when anti-matter was able to destroy a concept....?

 

[Jozaysmith?]

also, this energy could destroy the world to the point of destroying even the concept of time. Are you saying anti-matter can destroy a concept made of "pure energy", an abstract being? At least that is what your statement implies here...


so... I was wondering when anti-matter was able to destroy a concept....?

That's not how to comprehend an argument
Because idk when i said negative energy is anti matter i was giving examples
All the best for you all tho
Other things i need to do

 

[MrTim]

After reading all the arguments, I agree with everything while neutral with BDE.

 

[Mizuki67]

i got nothing to say to this...

 

[GarrixianXD]

I’m pretty sure all these were rejected before.

 

[MrTim]

I’m pretty sure all these were rejected before.

last time negative energy and forbidden void were not used, this is the first time it is used

 

[Incomprehensibleexistence]

Neutral on BDE
Agree to everything else

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Also pretty sure LN Veldanava has Type 2 as in his profile

I am surprised it's still there, iirc bde 2 is only tier 1 onwards since it requires superiority over the dimension.

 

[Mizuki67]

I am surprised it's still there, iirc bde 2 is only tier 1 onwards since it requires superiority over the dimension.

whether you are tier 1 or not doesnt have anything to do with BDE type 2. That said, i doubt Rimuru could even qualify for one. Veldanava case is different

 

[ashen]

I’m pretty sure all these were rejected before.

You are saying this just like that or the coûter the CRT ?

Because if it is to counter the CRT remember this fallency :

14. Appeal to tradition.​

This is when someone claims that an argument must be true because it's the way things have always been done previously, or the thing that people always believed before.

Example: "There can't be a Naruto character that can beat Luffy, because it's always been known that Naruto characters are no match for him."

The person in this example doesn't actually try debating the Naruto character vs. Luffy, he just says that Luffy wins because he's always won previously against Naruto characters.

I also agree with nonexistent physiology type 2 aspect 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and BDE type 1 (turn null clearly existed before time and space as void and if the type 1 of BDE is only lacking of it without being superior to it, that is valid for me)
I just have a doubt about the aspect 5 « power » like you said it is information so it doesn’t need to be added, It is aspect 4.

Very good OP I look forward for future ones.

Hello there, this will be my first thread related to TenSura directly on this wiki, so let's start.

First of all, the definition of NEP2:


To start off, it's already been accepted that Turn Null is the Primordial Energy that was there before anything and everything, granting it NEP1.

However, what was ignored was that the "everything" already includes a NEP1 structure.

So to say, the Forbidden Void and it's negative energy is what is actually conventional non-existence[NEP1]. It has also been shown that existence and non-existence, positive and negative energy, are in a clashing/opposite relationship, both of these cancel out each other, and what remains after both existence and non-existence[forbidden Void] vanishes, is Turn Null, the state of 0.

In binary Logic, if -1 is the Forbidden Void, and 1 is Existence, than Turn Null would be something that is neither of these, in other words, it is beyond Conventional non-existence, and actually NEP2.

As turn null is non-existent to literally the whole world, it would include anything, from the Great Spirits, to many other aspects, from which he would gain:

Aspect Types :

• Type 1 : Spiritual Non-Existent : Great Spirit of Sky is information, and everything in TenSura is made up of information, including the soul and mind. As turn null exceeds information, meaning Rimuru's Information [in-verse] is non-existent, it means his Soul is also non-existent as souls are a lump of information.
• Type 2 : Conceptual Non-Existent : Same reason as before
• Type 3 : Mental Non-Existent : Soul and mind are made of information, furthermore, as stated in his profile, his "memories" are stored in his soul, which is non-existent. Resultantly, he gains this aspect type as well.

• Type 4 : Information : Obvious, but remains the same as before.
• Type 5 : Others :He has multiple other things that are Non-existent, such as:
  • Energy : Great Spirits are "Pure Energy", while Turn Null is a "Void energy" that precedes and is non-existent to the great spirits.
  • Power : "Skills" that are essentially his "Powers and abilities", are made up of information, and inscribed within one's soul, as his information and soul are non-existent, his skills will be as well.

These are all aspects I could find FOR NOW. From this, he will have immunity to regular Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation[Type 1], Information Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, and Power Nullification.

Alternative possible upgrades:

Beyond Dimensional Existence


Now, we know that Turn Null existed prior to, and after the destruction of the world, including the destruction of the Great Spirits.
Now, as we may already know, Great Spirit of Sky is the conception of space, meanwhile the Great Spirit of time is the conception of time within the verse. Furthermore, Turn Null[Nothingness] existed even before the Dual concepts of Light and Darkness, that existed before the conception of space and time. This would grant Turn Null, and resultantly Rimuru, who can make his body out of Turn Null, Beyond Dimensional Existence [Type which is agreed upon] depending on if we treat Turn Null as superior to these concepts or just the absence of them. Added --> This upgrade[BDE] is suggestively for his EOST key, not true dragon key, though suggestions and thoughts are much appreciated ;D

Conclusive :
-WN Rimuru's True Dragon key gains Nonexistent Physiology [Type 2] as he can make his body out of Turn Null energy too.

• Gains Non-existent erasure, as he can destroy and recreate the world, which would technically involve the forbidden void and its non-existence
• Gains resistance to Non-Existent Erasure as he has resistance to all abilities he has acquired/analyzed.
• Details should be added that his type of NEP2 can survive the destruction of his plane of existence, as he wasn't affected by the destruction of the conception of space and time[great spirits] of his plane of existence.
• BDE[Any type that is agreed upon] should be added as well. Edit : Note that am not explicitly stating that he should be a certain type, I said "whatever he qualifies for", meaning if he qualifies for type 1, he will get it, and IF[let's just say, IF] he ever does it with type 2, than that. I'm not saying he should be a specific type, am saying he should be the type that we agree upon. That can be either type 1, OR type 2. If you want me to completely remove type 2 from the OP, sure, say it, and I'll do it, but don't be a sicko and assume things ;D

Agree with All :



Agree with NEP related stuff : Tempestdragon6


Agreed with BDE[Any type agreed upon-- will be specified] :



Neutral :
Tempestdragon6 [With BDE]


Disagree with All :

 

[GarrixianXD]

You are saying this just like that or the coûter the CRT ?

Appeal to tradition has nothing to do with calling out that the content presented has been rejected before.

Anyway, I'm not a slime supporter and if users said that new content is involved then I'm going to let this slide.

 

[BlackCat]

From reading the description (about 2-3 times) I feel that I agree with Nep2 and Aspect Types 1,2,3,4,5 and am neutral with BDE.

(However, I think we should wait for Tensura supports like Pegasus or Elizhaa first.)

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Agree with NEP 2 (nature) 1,2,3,4,5 (Aspekts).

Also, dosen't WN Rimuru already have BDE 1? Either way i dissagree with BDE 2(He lacks any QS needed for it for now), and neutral for BDE 1, leaning towards agreeing though.

Would love to see if their is any counter agruments.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

That's not how to comprehend an argument
Because idk when i said negative energy is anti matter i was giving examples
All the best for you all tho
Other things i need to do

Sure, good luck to whatever you have to do

I thought since you said "it doesn't make it the negative energy of the void" you were taking it as literal in the anti-matter part

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I’m pretty sure all these were rejected before.

False. Maybe BDE was brought up with similar reasoning? But this time Rimuru was NEP2 to space and time[great spirits] as well, that's another additional reasoning, but am pretty sure NEP2 with this reasoning was NEVER brought up here. Or if it was, can you please link the thread? Cuz I can't find it.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

whether you are tier 1 or not doesnt have anything to do with BDE type 2

actually no, the recent qualification is that you have to be tier 1, or hold QS over your verse [which would obv give you tier 1 too if the verse is tier 2 or above]. This is only for type 2 though, type 1 can still be gotten by someone that isn't tier 1. I guess it's just that the changes are yet to be implimented.

 

[GarrixianXD]

False. Maybe BDE was brought up with similar reasoning? But this time Rimuru was NEP2 to space and time[great spirits] as well, that's another additional reasoning, but am pretty sure NEP2 with this reasoning was NEVER brought up here. Or if it was, can you please link the thread? Cuz I can't find it.

It dates months back then. And I don't follow threads of franchises I don't support.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Anyway, I'm not a slime supporter and if users said that new content is involved then I'm going to let this slide.

And I thank you for that, yes, there is new content and scans involved

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

From reading the description (about 2-3 times) I feel that I agree with Nep2 and Aspect Types 1,2,3,4,5 and am neutral with BDE.

(However, I think we should wait for Tensura supports like Pegasus or Elizhaa first.)

I've tagged pegasus iirc, but have yet to tag Elizhaa[forgot about it]. I should do it now, right?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Also, dosen't WN Rimuru already have BDE 1? Either way i dissagree with BDE 2(He lacks any QS needed for it for now), and neutral for BDE 1, leaning towards agreeing though.

No, he doesn't, at least I don't see it anywhere on his profile. And sure, neutral on bde1 is understandable since it requires a BDE specialized, if possible Ultima, to comment

Would love to see if their is any counter agruments.

looking forward to it too.

 

[Mizuki67]

actually no, the recent qualification is that you have to be tier 1, or hold QS over your verse [which would obv give you tier 1 too if the verse is tier 2 or above]. This is only for type 2 though, type 1 can still be gotten by someone that isn't tier 1. I guess it's just that the changes are yet to be implimented.

bud you can still get bde type 2 even if your are below tier 1. If you are tier 2 you automatically reach to tier 1