Pretty sure that argument didn't involve Nihilistic Hazard stacked with Turn Null. I've read the thread where NEP1 and 2 were first brought up, and I am not seeing any of the negative energy and other stuff, just turn null. Which I agree that in that way it only qualifies for NEP1. But again, they forgot to include Forbidden Void as a stack it seems, which would grant nep2
hmm, I'll have to read Ultima's thread again, I guess, but thanks for pointing it out.
i am just going to advice you that it is going to be very difficult to get type 2 but i wish you luck. I doubt type 1 would even pass let alone type 2
Hmm, can I take that as Neutral to NEP2?
What you said is obviously true if the content is exactly the same but I think there is new evidence here that can help
I don't see any mention of Nihilistic Hazard here -_-misconceptions about rimuru's abilities
more or less this is a downgrade- the tensura web novel have alot of issues on their scaling and alot of things were taking off context of thinking it is what it's not now First transduality type 1 downgrade. the main reason rimuru got this according to thunderian thread was because 1...vsbattles.com
Also not going off-topic but the CM1 downgrade argument is pretty debunkable with Ciel's and Yuuki's statement.misconceptions about rimuru's abilities
more or less this is a downgrade- the tensura web novel have alot of issues on their scaling and alot of things were taking off context of thinking it is what it's not now First transduality type 1 downgrade. the main reason rimuru got this according to thunderian thread was because 1...
Yes, this is an argument that hasn't been mentioned before in any thread on this wiki, but...
Actually, no, this scan is from WN, and not LN. If you mean the name "forbidden void" is not included, than yes I just noticed, it's simple "Void" not forbidden void. I should edit that, but ehh, it's a "forbidden spell" as stated in just a line above that part, so it's doable with the naming, right?
??? I'm confused here, about the part I've highlighted. Which part of the OP are you referring to by this?? Sorry if I'm being unreasonable, but I don't think you got my point, the "nothingness" is not created by the void yes, that's turn null's primordial nothingness, the one that created the world, "negative energy" is the energy of the forbidden void, which is a part of the world, rather than outside of it.
"0" is the state where the forbidden void and its negative energy[conventional non-existent, NEP1] has vanished, where even conventional non-existent has "ended", that's what "0" or "turn null" is.
False. Negative energy opposes and clashes with positive energy, they cancel out each other, which causes the disappearance of both. The state that is left afterwards, where neither existence or conventional non-existence are present, is Turn Null, NEP2, because it is non-existent to both existence and conventional non-existent.
False, type 2's requirement, so far as it says in the definition, is being beyond conventional non-existence.
If we just change the numbers in the example of "1 and 0" to "1 and -1" to make it easier to understand, than turn null, which is even shown to be 0, is something neither 1[existence] nor -1[non-existence]. It is beyond that system of existence and non-existence, 1 and -1, beyond conventional non-existence. It also exists before the NEP1 forbidden void, which is a part of the world, as turn null existed before the world itself.
Sure, am fine with that, take your time
Yeah ;-;
Also if you're wondering where was in mentioned in WN, it's chapter 206, it was mentioned as "Void" but I mistakenly added the "forbidden" because just before the word it said "forbidden spell" ;-;
Also wasn't it Concept type 1???
That's light novel
oh, sorry than, I thought true dragons were accepted as type 1 in WN too. I saw the thread for AE on True Dragons in WN a long time ago so forgot which type of Concept they were AE on.
What I'm trying to say is, if the World was born from nothingness, would you assume that any void in the World was created by the God who created the World, or would you assume that the void in the World was a part of the original nothingness that was not filled by the existence of the World? It's a little hard to explain, but at the very beginning you need to prove that the Forbidden Void exists in Tensura Web Novel.
I don't understand why you condition yourself to think this way. Do you know what Antimatter is? Is it more logical that that case you are talking about here is NEP Nature Type 2 or is it a very advanced Antimatter manipulation?
vsbattles.fandom.com
Negative energy is literally like the antimatter in the Tensura Web Novel. When Matter (1) and Antimatter (-1) come together, they annihilate each other and 0, that is, nothingness, is formed. Negative energy (-1) and positive energy (1) come together and 0 is formed, that is, Turn Null. (Non-Existence Type 1)
Ah, so that's what you meant. Well, it entirely depends on context, but in this case, I'll assume the first, because it's shown clearly how "Void and its negative energy" and the nothingness of the turn null are not the same thing. The prior is, well, a normal Void[NEP1], meanwhile the latter "nothingness" is what remains after even the void vanishes from the world.
It would be more logical to assume the NEP way, because I don't remember it when Anti-Matter was treated as something non-physical.Antimatter
Antimatter is the mirror image of matter, and consists of antiparticles that have the opposite charge and spin to their more prevalent counterparts. Once equivalent ratios of matter and antimatter particles react, they are almost immediately converted into energy in a process referred to as...
When anti-matter and matter collide, they convert into energy. Meanwhile the talk here itself is "energy". To top that off, we know that even Concepts, abstractions that are non-physical, are made of "energy", and it's also shown how this energy is not physical, as they had a energy body, NOT a physical body, which is shown as how even Spirits, that are NOT physical, are made of energy.
Again, unlike your logic that is based more on assumptions that positive and negative energy are matter and anti-matter, with no real direct statement, mine has direct implications as, not only is the energy called the energy of the void, these energies[positive and negative] aren't even something physical, I don't remember when "matter and anti-matter", were regarded as something abstract or non-physical -_-
Of course, I do not claim that antimatter manipulation is not a term that fully describes negative energy. Negative energy can even consume a space-time continuum and works at an abstract level, but this is the ability that can best explain negative energy, like most haxes in Tensura, Antimatter Manipulation will differ from its conventional versions in fiction.
Of course, I know, but must I remind you too that not all fictional settings necessarily involve anti-matter?
Again, my point still stands, that matter and anti-matter are physical, while energy is something not, it's AE.
I hold the same opinion in that regard, I've already tagged some, so hoping they will come.
To be an aspect, it needs to be demonstrated that something cannot exist without those aspects. I was thinking energies were concepts so maybe I thought this would be okay.
As for the power aspect, I disagree, you need to prove they cannot exist without their powers. Please note that just because skills are made from information does not mean they need it to survive when what sustains their existence is their mind, soul, concept, etc...
Yes, however, that completely depends on context, and varies from case to case. For example, what if you exist before the conception of space in reality? Furthermore, Turn Null isn't just something that exists "before it", it's something that is there when the NEP1 Void "Vanishes". The void, that is already non-existent, vanishes. What's left is something that cannot be described as "conventional nothingness", because that "conventional nothingness" has already Vanished, disappeared, erased. That's exactly what "beyond conventional nonexistent" is, per definitions provided by the wiki.
Hmm, than I'll add it to the vote.
Noted.
Hmm, however in this context Rimuru's information makes up his mind and soul too, and his information, as already described in his profile, is non-existent. Soul is literally a 'lump of information'. What would happen if that "information" didn't exist? Will the soul exist? No, it will not.
I think I'll leave this to the staff because I tried to think about it but things were quite confusing. I don't know much about NEP so I will seek opinions from the staff.
Very well, than I'll put you agree on everything else and neutral on Aspect 5 in <<Power>>
Okay, I'll add it to the votes
Hmm, I agree that it's a bit confusing and needs more proof.... but as we already know, skills are made of information and exist in soul, both of which, information and soul, are NEP for Rimuru.
Well, I'm glad we agreed on that.
Agreed
diagree. this is just too shallow for NEP 2, in your case, he should be un-interactable by others if he nep by all aspects which is not the case
agree with your bde
Where does it state that having nep on all aspects mean your un-interactable? Also there's no specific type 5, so "All Aspects" sounds like NLF since there are countless possible types for aspect 5 <<Others>>
I'll add the vote for it. But please rethink about your prior choice for NEP.
However it does not mention that they must be un-interactable. Furthermore him being interactable is simply because he doesn't inject turn null in his body all the time. As a result, most of the time his body is made out of normal magicules, that are not nonexistent.
