(Nasuverse Upgrade) High 6-A rating for Characters with A+ (and above) Noble Phantasms?

[RegisNex1232]

Except that they are the ones giving the facts, while you are using falsified info due to your lack of relevant knowledge.

The text certainly does.

Not here regarding facts about the verse.

 

[RegisNex1232]

I'm not the one relying on assumptions and opinions, that is clearly you. If the authors thought that Pashupata dealt damage then they would have mentioned it in Arjuna's profile.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No Regis, you aren't giving "facts".

I'm not using any falsified info, what? How can something that is put into the canon games be false? That's absurd.

You love talking about "canon" and "authors" but you realize that the visuals are canon and were put there because the authors wanted to? How can you argue that.

Nevermind that nothing in that text, word-for-word, states that Pashupata can't have raw power as well. Nothing states that it can't disperse clouds. And the fact that we actually see it do these things is direct proof that it indeed ca. You can't just cherry pick this stuff.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Nothing in text says it can do all that you think it can. So anything more is just assumptions and from past experiences visuals aren't reliable information. No cherrypicking here, just pointing out that assumptions aren't evidence despite your repeated attempts to use them as such.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No, it's not assumptions. I'm not speculating anything. I'm going by what we can see, from the visuals depicted in a visual media.

There is nothing that contradicts it, and you have yet to prove how it is unreliable, or "non-canon". You use buzz words like "canon", "assumption", "author" but you don't understand what they mean it seems.

You absolutely did cherry pick. I'm not assuming anything. I'm going by what we literally know and can confirm.

I'm literally saying that Thing A has Effect B because we see it have Effect B. Do you need it spelled out for you? Nasu doesn't need to explain what is self-explanatory.

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

Now I'm curious about the world of game creation.

Who wrote Extella Link Attack Animations? their 3D Art Director? I heard from BL that Higashide wrote the Extella Link story as a whole. He also writes for Fate/Grand Order apparently.

Though, wiki said that Extella The Umbral Star was written by both Nasu and Sakurai.

(man, many authors. no wonder western comics became confusing mess of outliers and feats)

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah, this is also why relying solely on one author for big franchises like these is illogical. We don't have absolute Word of God in something like Fate.

 

[RegisNex1232]

While ignoring the written text and taking the visuals at face value. Pretty much standard speculation.

Says the person who thinks that Ishtar busts planets when her NP is explicitly only mountain busting. But sure, accuse me of knowing things that you clearly don't, given that you're willing to discard facts for assumptions.

Except we don't know it as it isn't mentioned or supported anywhere else. So unless and until Nasu supports the visuals, they shouldn't be used.

Effect B which isn't hinted or mentioned anywhere else shouldn't really be used unless there's more evidence, which you don't have.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Yeah, this is also why relying solely on one author for big franchises like these is illogical. We don't have absolute Word of God in something like Fate.

Yes, we do, where do you think any information about Servants and Divine Spirits and so on come from? Despite your blatant attempts at painting Nasu as a liar, he isn't one and is in fact the WoG on the Nasuverse.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No, I don't ignore the text. I have yet to see contradictions there. No speculation is being done.

I mean, Ishtar is stated to be a Venus-buster, her NP is based on the legend of her shooting a planet as an arrow, and it is what she does on a conceptual level. She's also depicted as larger than the planet. So again, no speculations or disregard for facts.

We do know, wow. We can see. How ghastly that I dare assume something has an effect because we see it do an effect? It isn't like there's an entire entertainment media built around the principle of seeing stuff.

Oh wait, we do, it's called movies. And TV. And video games to a large extent, the only difference is that you interact with what you see.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Regis

They come from databook / in-game information. We don't have to rely on Nasu confirming everything on interviews. In most cases the information on the games / visual novels themselves is self-sufficient.

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

Yes, we do, where do you think any information about Servants and Divine Spirits and so on come from? Despite your blatant attempts at painting Nasu as a liar, he isn't one and is in fact the WoG on the Nasuverse.

Well, iirc Nasu hasn't written any Arjuna stuffs. Indian myth was inserted to the verse from Apocrypha, starting with Karna.
Though Nasu did supervise Higashide in writing Apocrypha.

Oh I almost forgot, Nasu also wrote CCC, which featured Karna. So Nasu also had directly wrote Karna too.

@Matthew Well, tbf, Regis' argument is that it isn't about the Authors. its about them not going out of their way to write explicitly that Pashupata can do this and that.

Funnily, in some cases, its the other way around. some says that text sometimes are unreliable and hyperbole. That we need visuals to confirm it.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Pashupata dealing damage is speculation as in its usage so far in stories, it's never mentioned to.

She isn't. Have you actually read any translations? Nowhere is it stated that she destroys Venus/becomes as big as Venus. Not to mention that her NP isn't representing her using Venus, instead it is her destruction of a mountain range that is being represented. At this point it's practically lying about confirmed info.

We also see the text given about the NP where the visuals are clearly missing.

 

[RegisNex1232]

I am using the databooks that come with the games, are written by Nasu and co. and are meant to support the gamwes.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And they don't contradict anything I said at all.

 

[RegisNex1232]

And they don't contradict anything I said at all.

They don't support it either. There's a lack of evidence that you seem to ignore in favour of the calc, which is against wiki rules.

 

[JBennett]

I just have one simple question about this topic, what's the point in creating an ability/technique that doesn't actually do what it says it does? That's what I'm getting at when we make this NP into a damage attack.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It isn't against wiki rules? We see it do something so it clearly does, how is that hard to get?

It's both hax and power.

 

[RegisNex1232]

I just have one simple question about this topic, what's the point in creating an ability/technique that doesn't actually do what it says it does? That's what I'm getting at when we make this NP into a damage attack.

To be frank, we honestly don't know everything about Arjuna and his NP. What we have so far doesn't support Pashupata having damage as well as hax. If further materials show that it does damage then we might have a reason to calculate it. Otherwise it should be rejected for now.

 

[RegisNex1232]

We aren't sure that what we see is accurate as past examples have at times been misleading as to the truth. So unless you have more than visuals, the calculation should not be used.

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

in favour of the calc, which is against wiki rules.

wat? there's literally Staff called 'Calc Members'. so in this wiki we do calc too...
though I admit most probably come from obd. but maybe you could link to a rule that forbids a calced feat?

 

[RegisNex1232]

We can't calc feats based on invalid reasoning, which is being used here by the OBD members.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

They aren't invalid. Also, a text description doesn't have to describe the animation to validate it. It just adds further context. That's it.

 

[Wokistan]

If the guidebooks neither support or contradict something, it can be used, I believe. Game mechanics are only game mechanics in the case of a contradiction, not when the verse actually wants you to maybe consider what happens in gameplay and not spell everything out in the lore.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

They are not game mechanics, they are unskippable cutscene animations.

 

[RegisNex1232]

A text description generally contains all of the relevant info, and the AP of Pashupata is glaringly left out. Hence we can't make calcs as there's no further information and context.

 

[Wokistan]

You would need to show that the lore contradicts the animation rather than it just not addressing it at all.

 

[JBennett]

If it does do damage to this level then wouldn't the rating of the NP be somewhere close to Anti-Fortres- Anti-Countery? If it was specifically desing to be able to do a large amount of damage then why is it an Anti-Unti?

 

[RegisNex1232]

It is clearly game mechanics as no further damage is shown to the stage area.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No it isn't. It's just a trope in all JRPGs. Nasuverse isn't excluded from it. It's a way to demonstrate the power of the attack.

Game Mechanics is turn-based fighting and using cards.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also the ratings of NPs can be contradicted by feats. Pashupata is A+

 

[RegisNex1232]

You would also need to show that the lore supports the animation. It didn't for Gil and Kiara.

It's Anti-Unit as it targets one person at a time.

 

[JBennett]

Anti-Unti NP are desing to target a single person, this NP is easily desing to target an army at least if we take it as a damge NP.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

A text description generally contains all of the relevant info, and the AP of Pashupata is glaringly left out. Hence we can't make calcs as there's no further information and context.

Is there a text talking how Gae Bolg is Mach 200+? No? Time to downgrade.

^This is what you are arguing.

 

[Wokistan]

It is clearly game mechanics as no further damage is shown to the stage area.

Dude, not damaging the environment around you is textbook game mechanics, and as such isn't used to discredit AP. By that logic, 10-C dark souls for being unable to climb a waist high fence while paradoxically being able to one hand a FUGS.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Anti-Unti NP are desing to target a single person, this NP is easily desing to target an army at least if we take it as a damge NP.

I hope you realize the AP calc is for a side-effect. Ultimately it will hit a single person. It just happens to disperse a continent amount of clouds as it's launched up.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

99% of videogame characters are now 10-C because there's windows and doors they often can't open.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Nice false equivalency. When Gae Bolg isn't shown to be fast, get back to me otherwise don't as this is different.

Except that it's never mentioned in the story as well so I don't get how you can support it. Show me where in story Pashupata destroys something.

 

[JBennett]

A Continent level attack for a single person. wow, that quite overkill for an Anti-Unit NP.

 

[RegisNex1232]

The calc is useless. When we see it in America there's no fancy storm or visuals and the Demon Gods are targetted one by on as mentioned in the description.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C03nGZJXcAA0r0Z.jpg