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Again, Nasuverse =/= FF and I don't get why FF standards would apply here when the two works are very different.
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(Nasuverse Upgrade) High 6-A rating for Characters with A+ (and above) Noble Phantasms?
- Thread starter Lucis=the=Lumenian
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No, Grand/Order, Extra and Extella work on the exact same principle. And I have presented my argument. You keep insulting me, however, despite me asking you not to.
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An argument without proof isn't an argument at all, so I don't get why you seem to think that the visuals matter as much as the text, when from FSN on to Extella Link, all of the relevant details regarding the verse have come from the text, not visuals and the visuals have at best been placeholders for one's imagination.
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To be fair Mat I do agree that visuals are just as important as the text. If this was any other situaltion I would agree with this feat. The problem with useing this calc is that NP are crystilation of Legends of the Servant their connected to. Ishtar's NP is planet level due to it being base on the legend of her throwing Venus into the planet and destroying a mountain.
Pashupata is base on judgeing the individual and delivering Moksha, or liberation to them. Because it never states anything about destroying anything at all(with the exception of the target) we can't use the visuals alone since it doesn't give indication to judgeing it states.
Pashupata is base on judgeing the individual and delivering Moksha, or liberation to them. Because it never states anything about destroying anything at all(with the exception of the target) we can't use the visuals alone since it doesn't give indication to judgeing it states.
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Ishtar shoots a concept of Venus, which is unquantifiable. There's zero indication of it destroying a planet.JBennett said:
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No, she's straight up stated to be a Venus-buster and her NP shows it as Planet level.
But I guess not only visuals don't matter at all, but also the text doesn't either when it contradicts you.
But I guess not only visuals don't matter at all, but also the text doesn't either when it contradicts you.
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The text never says what you think it says so I don't get why you, someone who isn't willing to get any relevant source materials or make a proper argument based off the given evidence, still keep insisting that the NP destroys planets.
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Yes, it does say it?
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@Regi I also had thoughts about Ishtar's An Gal T─ü Kigal Shē when it was first brought up, I just gave up on careing at the time.
If you also consider that Gil, who is generally comparable to Ishtar, is capable of destroying the world it doesn't seems like a complet stretch that a full Devine Spirit like Ishtar can also destroy planets but like I said I didn't really care at the time and still don't so I digress.
If you also consider that Gil, who is generally comparable to Ishtar, is capable of destroying the world it doesn't seems like a complet stretch that a full Devine Spirit like Ishtar can also destroy planets but like I said I didn't really care at the time and still don't so I digress.
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Gil also can't destroy planets and Divine Spirits > Servants like Ishtar is, so the point is meaningless.
Either way, Matthew is essentially saying that author input in the form of NP descriptions doesn't matter as visuals are enogh, when that has been repeatedly shown to not be the case.
Either way, Matthew is essentially saying that author input in the form of NP descriptions doesn't matter as visuals are enogh, when that has been repeatedly shown to not be the case.
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@Regis 'attack animation<<<Text' is all good. I mean, it would be a disaster if BlazBlue characters are rated 5-C solely through Makoto's (obviously joke) attack animation.
I honestly have no argument to make a case for supporting attack animation other than none of Extella Link's attack animations are supposed to be joke attack animation.
But, I found a calc for calc for Surtr (Cosmos in the Lostbelt). Of course, no worries, its now purely text-based feat this time. About Surtr's sword which can raise temperature of Scandinavia up to 4 million degrees. calc done by Crimson King of obd forums :
Density of air
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_of_air
1.225 kg/m┬│
Using this to get length and width since I don't know the length and width of Scandinavia
http://www.analyzemath.com/Geometry_calculators/dimensions_rectangle.html
Area is 928,057 km┬▓
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galdh├©pigge
Tallest point is 2469 meters
Plugging in numbers
https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/volume
Volume would be about 2291448654750000000000
1.225*2291448654750000000000=2.8070246e+21
https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/specific-heat
Heat capacity of air is 1003.5 kg*k
2.8070246e+21*1003.5*4000000=1.1267397e+31joules
Converts to 2.69 zettato
No clue if I did the math correctly.
I only have tidbits of information regarding Lostbelts. Maybe some Servants are scalable to Surtr's zettatons? My main candidate is Sigurd (no page for him yet tho), becasuse Surtr was using his body. Sigurd being (mostly) literal Dragon also helps.
Though, given he is supposed to be world-ending threat through fusion of Sigurd+Fenrir+Surtr. He might be stronger than strongest known gods thus maybe its unlikely that Surtr could be scaled to anyone.
I honestly have no argument to make a case for supporting attack animation other than none of Extella Link's attack animations are supposed to be joke attack animation.
But, I found a calc for calc for Surtr (Cosmos in the Lostbelt). Of course, no worries, its now purely text-based feat this time. About Surtr's sword which can raise temperature of Scandinavia up to 4 million degrees. calc done by Crimson King of obd forums :
Density of air
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_of_air
1.225 kg/m┬│
Using this to get length and width since I don't know the length and width of Scandinavia
http://www.analyzemath.com/Geometry_calculators/dimensions_rectangle.html
Area is 928,057 km┬▓
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galdh├©pigge
Tallest point is 2469 meters
Plugging in numbers
https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/volume
Volume would be about 2291448654750000000000
1.225*2291448654750000000000=2.8070246e+21
https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/specific-heat
Heat capacity of air is 1003.5 kg*k
2.8070246e+21*1003.5*4000000=1.1267397e+31joules
Converts to 2.69 zettato
No clue if I did the math correctly.
I only have tidbits of information regarding Lostbelts. Maybe some Servants are scalable to Surtr's zettatons? My main candidate is Sigurd (no page for him yet tho), becasuse Surtr was using his body. Sigurd being (mostly) literal Dragon also helps.
Though, given he is supposed to be world-ending threat through fusion of Sigurd+Fenrir+Surtr. He might be stronger than strongest known gods thus maybe its unlikely that Surtr could be scaled to anyone.
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That's for Gil and Enkidu though. and they both have EX Rank NP.JBennett said:
Speaking of Gil, is Karna in any way scalable to him?
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Surtr is at least Star level seeing as he consumed Fenris who could devour the sun.
But Gil / Enkidu are Planet level. The text and visuals are direct as hell about that.
But Gil / Enkidu are Planet level. The text and visuals are direct as hell about that.
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Never said this. I said that they are not mutually exclusive. You can use both, not exclude one side completely. Please don't distort my arguments.RegisNex1232 said:
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And also Odin's feat of sealing Surtr in the False Sun.Matthew Schroeder said:
... Wait a minute, why does Odin expect God of Fire can be imprisoned in a prison made out of... well... Fire?
Man, Nasu has lot of 'ignore durability' stuffs. there's Hassan's sword which can cut Tiamat, and there's Pashupata, which is Hero-Killer.
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Yet one is supported while the other isn't so I don't get why we should use baseless assumptions as fact.
And given your previous replies, you still don't seem to understand the relevant source materials, so I don't get why you seem to think you have an argument. I would readily recommend you to go to Beast's Lair and ask any questions about the verse, as all the relevant translators, translations, source materials pass through there and you are far more likely to find out the answers there than anywhere else.
And given your previous replies, you still don't seem to understand the relevant source materials, so I don't get why you seem to think you have an argument. I would readily recommend you to go to Beast's Lair and ask any questions about the verse, as all the relevant translators, translations, source materials pass through there and you are far more likely to find out the answers there than anywhere else.
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@Regis unfortunately, I think there are no new translated material for Extella Link. The story itself looks like mostly about Karl der Grosse so I doubt we'd have anything made out of Arjuna in that game.
But Arjuna appears for the first time in Extella series. As an equal rival to Karna who got brainwashed by Karl. So maybe we'd get Lore-based feats from Arjuna, who knows?
Karna did once mention something about even Vishnu's Avatar, Kalki being beneath Sefar. Yet, Karna still challenged Sefar head-on. Unfortunately, we don't know if Karna won against Sefar or not. If Karna won, then we might be able to get Planet-level Arjuna out of it.
Or we add another key in Arjuna's profile. [Arjuna in Lore (6-C)|Arjuna based on attack animation (6-A)] XD
But Arjuna appears for the first time in Extella series. As an equal rival to Karna who got brainwashed by Karl. So maybe we'd get Lore-based feats from Arjuna, who knows?
Karna did once mention something about even Vishnu's Avatar, Kalki being beneath Sefar. Yet, Karna still challenged Sefar head-on. Unfortunately, we don't know if Karna won against Sefar or not. If Karna won, then we might be able to get Planet-level Arjuna out of it.
Or we add another key in Arjuna's profile. [Arjuna in Lore (6-C)|Arjuna based on attack animation (6-A)] XD
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Arjuna first appeared in FGO in 2015 as part of the promotion for the game. They then used him in Extella as he was popular with the fans.
If you could tell me more, I might be able to find out on BL.
I don't mind attack animations as long as the text supports it, otherwise they're just there for the game and not really relevant.
If you could tell me more, I might be able to find out on BL.
I don't mind attack animations as long as the text supports it, otherwise they're just there for the game and not really relevant.
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They should be allowed until they're proven to be just for show.
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When there's nothing to support it, then no, they should not be used as that leads (and already has) to taking things like Gil's Enuma Elish in CCC at face value when the text does not support it.Matthew Schroeder said:
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Oh please, don't use the Enuma Elish false-equivalency. That's not a real galaxy, it just sorta looks like one. It's not comparable to Pashupata's where we outright see a continent-spanning storm be dissipated by Pashupata.
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yea, I'd check in BL later. info I got is mostly from youtube playthrough video. And it hasn't gone futher from Chapter 1 :lol:RegisNex1232 said:
But Arjuna is much more 'kinder' than I expected. I mean, in the Extella Link trailer he said : "Keep your guard at all times lest I shoot you from behind" XD
But the Opening of the game, and the statement from Arjuna itself, it seems the game lore really intended for Arjuna to be equal to Karna. So maybe Pashupata can really kill Karna? Karna is very Heroic so its very possible. But Vasavi Shakti also would be at its highest when its against demigod like Arjuna.
Well, my point is Karna is 5-A with VasShakti. but Arjuna has no equal to VasShak so there might be something we missed. How would 6-C Arjuna be equal to 5-A Karna.
You know what NP that cannot be attack-animated? Karl der Grosse and Charlemagnes's Carolus Patricius. Its some kind of flying fortress at the size of city that serves as Karl and Charl's headquarters. In Charl's case, he allows his Carolus Partricius to be used by you (his Master) cuz Nero's Rome was surrounded by all sides by Karl's agressors.RegisNex1232 said:
Though, Karl's Carolus Patricius is much much bigger than Charl's. It literally looks like a kingdom in the clouds. If I have the time, I may try to calc its size.
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It is just like Enuma Elish in that a storm appears out of nowhere, does nothing and gets dispersed, and none of it is noted down in the NP's description. You are intentionally assuming that they are different when they aren't and that it deals damage when it's neither mentioned nor hinted at.
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I mean even Karna's VS has some false assumptions so that too is getting revised. Either way, it has no direct relation to Pashupata so no point bringing it up here. Same goes for Karl's NP.
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Is the issue using the animation to find a result? o.o maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way but if the animation contradicts the mechanics then it probably shouldn't be used. x.x I'm not too knowledgeable about Extella so my opinion isn't really useful here.
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We don't need to have it all described in the description for the NP, Regis. No revision is being done.
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Yes, we should and the authors already do, as otherwise we get people like you who don't understand the context as well as the text misunderstanding what something actually does and so giving false ratings contradictory with the source material.
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Regis, the author doesn't matter that much. We can use both text and visuals, how hard is it to understand? You are going contrary to the wiki as a whole and ignoring all opinions which are not yours.
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Also completely false that the storm does nothing. It appears as a result of Pashupata being charged and is dispersed by it being sent upwards.
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Yeah, that's true. because we don't even know of CP's rank.RegisNex1232 said:
EDIT : haha, I thought Regis was talking to me for a second there. please ignore the deleted part.
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The authors are the ones actually making and writing the Nasuverse. You are asking us to discard their info, which is the only info we get, for your own false assumptions. I'm pretty sure that is against the wiki rules. Again, unsupported visuals, which you still haven't supported, do not make for accurate ratings and so should not be taken over canon text from the character's creator.Matthew Schroeder said:
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The Enuma Elish comparison is very false. I have explained it to Regis like six times already in multiple threads but he still uses it as a "Checkmate" move.
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No Regis, not false assumptions. I am saying that authorial intent isn't that necessary. The work can function on its own. We can interpret things contrary to authors. We do it all the time. If you don't like it, you are on the wrong website.
Nothing contradicts the visual in the description.
Ever heard of the concept of Death of the Author? It applies here very much.
Nothing contradicts the visual in the description.
Ever heard of the concept of Death of the Author? It applies here very much.
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It really isn't. You have instead been lying and using false information and refusing to consider the canon, correct information.
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I haven't lied once. Meanwhile you continuously insulted me and ignored any information / evidence that contradicts the opinion you are so adamant about. I have asked you to not do it.
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