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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

Ultra_instinct_issei said:
i know i am gonna sound like a dick, but i wanna know, all heroic spirits are dead, right? So is mana transfering with a servant is necrophilia?
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The Heroic Spirit themselves aren't neither dead nor alive, they are Souls that have ''graduated'' from the cycle of Samsara/transmigration. Anyway, what exists in the world are the Ghost Liners (which is the ruby for Boundary Record Zone)/ Servants. A Heroic Spirit itself is no more than a narrative, a tale. It's not a defined existence.
As humanity’s most ancient hero.
As the illustrious king who was the first in this world to have “become a story.”
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So the question is more along the lines ''Given a Servant has a Soul, is it truly Alive/a Living Being?"
This would define whether it would be considered something like doing it with a sex doll or normal sex. This makes me think whether Tohko doing Mana Transfer would be considered sex or a 18+ Puppet Show?
Veloxt1r0kore said:
Ehm....Necrophilic Necromantic Nectofantasia
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If that is a Caren reference, one like isn't enough
 
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SuperKamiNappa said:
After all these years we’re finally getting a Quick Caster
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No more "Lancelot best Quick Caster'' memes (The japanese servants ''only'' thing is getting old though)
Won't complain cause I got Saber ALter and Berserker Oda in <10 rolls, so I'm in a good mood

But I have to say I'm kinda pissed the new event is Heyan locked... I'm still in early Lostbelts cause I started playing JP =/
 



1637572990640.png

Double peace.
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
I'm guessing this is Ryoma Class at its peak just like Nobu in Avenger Class
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nah. This is a special ryouma, and Maou is the fusion of every Nobbu.

Also we're finally getting a confirmation that ryouma without oryou is still a good servant (I mean he was fighting percival in the trailer so yeah.)
Lancer ryouma wouldn't usually get oryou yet he is directly called a servant fit of his reputation

about oryou: It is said that its power is one million times that of a normal dragon, but it is a declaration of the person himself, and it seems to be a feeling, so I would like you to guess about that.
 
John985 said:
Double peace.
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Ryoma showed up in my Alt while I was rolling cause of boredom. Pretty nice servant, especially given Arts Lancers are lacking in number


TypeOU said:
about oryou: It is said that its power is one million times that of a normal dragon, but it is a declaration of the person himself, and it seems to be a feeling, so I would like you to guess about that.
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The problem is that we have NO ******* IDEA how strong is a normal dragon. Before Vritra, was any dragon (besides the one ''inside Sabers core'' and Fafnir) ever even shown?
 
LehenDuo said:
The problem is that we have NO ******* IDEA how strong is a normal dragon. Before Vritra, was any dragon (besides the one ''inside Sabers core'' and Fafnir) ever even shown?
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bellerophon is directly compared to a dragon in terms of durability, its best stat, and only as "close to a dragon"

Vortigern (hopefully that's his name) stomped excalibur while artoria was alive

kiyohime np turns her into a low ranking dragon, and it's obviously a buff

sieg in his dragon form can tank np pretty casually unless they are anti dragons
 
For Dragon, we know that Vritra, Vortigern, and Yamata-no-Orochi are the god tiers of Dragon kind in Nasuverse

Outside from that three, only Fafnir that shown to be a real fricking threat, Tarasque seems not entirely strong
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
For Dragon, we know that Vritra, Vortigern, and Yamata-no-Orochi are the god tiers of Dragon kind in Nasuverse

Outside from that three, only Fafnir that shown to be a real fricking threat, Tarasque seems not entirely strong
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Tiamat not being listed here hurts, specially given how she could OHKO these three.

And ''dragon'' by itself doesn't mean anything, that's the problem. There are dragons that are Monstrous Beast, Phantasmal Beasts, Divine Beasts and Gods. Anyway, there is no true dragon anymore and unless Nasu pulls some mad plot twist after Albion story, there will never be any again.
 
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LehenDuo said:
And ''dragon'' by itself doesn't mean anything, that's the problem. There are dragons that are Monstrous Beast, Phantasmal Beasts, Divine Beasts and Gods. Anyway, there is no true dragon anymore and unless Nasu pulls some mad plot twist after Albion story, there will never be any again.
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still, even the lowest tier dragons should be comparable to servants from what we know, so still somewhat impressive.
 
TypeOU said:
still, even the lowest tier dragons should be comparable to servants from what we know, so still somewhat impressive.
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The problem is that ''the average servant'' is also something undefined, and probably undefineable because to be a HS you basically have to be really ******* awesome at something, but can suck at everything else.

Arthur, for example, fights 2 Divine Beasts of Ozymandias Temple Complex concomitantly. Ozymandias rules over an unespecific number of Divine Beasts. Alexander Dumas said himself he would lose to a modern magus, which even if shown to be capable, shouldn't be Kayneth-level/Brand-level. Stheno and Euryale?

But to say the weakest dragon, aka a Monstrous Beast, would compare to Servants... I really don't think that would hold.
 
What about Albion? In LB6 it is stated that Albion is the equivalent of a Grand among the most exceptional dragons.
Also he's very old (about 4.6 billion years old).
 
There is the goofy dragon in Gilgamesh's interlude who is stated to be possibly even more powerful than Fafnir.
Kiyohime can transform into a "low-level Eastern dragon", and it is a good buff for her. So it is reasonable to scale dragons to Servants.

LehenDuo said:
The problem is that ''the average servant'' is also something undefined, and probably undefineable because to be a HS you basically have to be really ******* awesome at something, but can suck at everything else.

Arthur, for example, fights 2 Divine Beasts of Ozymandias Temple Complex concomitantly. Ozymandias rules over an unespecific number of Divine Beasts. Alexander Dumas said himself he would lose to a modern magus, which even if shown to be capable, shouldn't be Kayneth-level/Brand-level. Stheno and Euryale?

But to say the weakest dragon, aka a Monstrous Beast, would compare to Servants... I really don't think that would hold.
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Currently we consider Servants to be roughly equal physically.
Also I believe you are mistaken about Alexander Dumas. You might be referring to this statement which wasn't made by him:
“Gilgamesh: the king of Heroes.... It seems that his nameless sword and his infinite treasury shall prove to be our greatest obstacle.”
The man stood up from his chair once again, and slowly paced around the room with his hands behind his back.
“As such, I shall have no choice but to overwhelm him with numbers before he draws his sword. We must use every means available to us to lure him into a state of weakness—and then we will murder him, honorably.”
With every step he took, he left a powerful—even intimidating— aura. It was as though the darkness itself glowed the color of exigency.
“However, mere numbers will not suffice to defeat him. After all, on top of being unaffected by physical attacks, Heroic Spirits are immeasurably stronger than even the finest athletes. Of course, the Caster I have summoned is an exception. In a brawl, I should imagine that even I might have the upper hand... but that is not my concern now.” He glanced askance, as if he had said something he should not have. He then collected himself and continued to pace.
“Then again... what if men could master the use of Noble Phantasms?”
[...]

Alexander actually has Rank C Strength and Rank D Endurance, so far from the physically weakest Servant; Orlando should know his stats as his Master. The chief of Clan Calatin was either being facetious or he was talking about being able to defeat him without need for number advantage. Even without seeing his stats, it was made clear to the other members of Clan Calatin that their chief was not talking about a fair fight:
Seeing Dumas suddenly rise to his feet, the five officers could not help breaking out in a cold sweat. It was easy to fall into the trap of thinking of Dumas as bookish because he was a novelist. In reality, however, he had a highly active side. It was said that, even as he neared his last years, he had personally gone hunting wild beasts in order to write a cookbook. The intimidating physique he had inherited from his father — a military man who had served under Napoleon
— recalled the anecdote. “Even I could probably beat him in a brawl,” the Chief had said. To the officers, however, the outcome of a straight exchange of fists seemed less certain.
Dumas, cloaked in that air of intimidation, took the arm of the officer who had lost his right hand, and…
“They are,” he shrugged, and made to fit something over the officer’s right wrist

Orlando did some prep to find ways to defeat Servants as a human, and since he was able to keep up with Servants, like the rest of Clan Catalin, since he was given a Noble Phantasm by Alexander. So he is not an average Magus by any means.

Stheno and Euryale are able to fight in their Servant form.
 
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ShadowWhoWalks said:
There is the goofy dragon in Gilgamesh's interlude who is stated to be possibly even more powerful than Fafnir.
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Have to reread GIl's Interlude, don't remember much of the content.

ShadowWhoWalks said:
Kiyohime can transform into a "low-level Eastern dragon", and it is a good buff for her. So it is reasonable to scale dragons to Servants.
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Kiyohime is Earth. Her status as something that actually ever existed as more than an embodied idea/dream is ???? at best.

ShadowWhoWalks said:
Alexander actually has Rank C Strength and Rank D Endurance, so far from the physically weakest Servant; Orlando should know his stats as his Master. The chief of Clan Calatin was either being facetious or he was talking about being able to defeat him without need for number advantage. Even without seeing his stats, it was made clear to the other members of Clan Calatin that their chief was not talking about a fair fight:
NOVEL QUOTE
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Sorry, memory failed me and switched who said the phrase itself. I didn't meant PHYSICALLY - Servants are Ether made forms made to resemble human bodies and are by their very essence superior to Humans in their ''base stats'', that's the gist of the thing since FSN and EMIYA arm transplant. But the paragraph still puts forth the idea the Calatin's leader > Dumas. And he hasn't been called or alluded to as Kayneth/Brand-level or anything even close to that. Flat vs him, Flat being someone compared to a Brand explicitly, clearly shows the gap. The idea of a fair fight when you arrange everything such that the servant has advantage confuses me - Calatin Chief is a swordsman to begin with, not a fist fighter, the very composition of their bodies and the faculties it holds benefit Servants, etc etc... How is that fair? The word used isn't fair - is straight. It doesn't imply any fairness.

ShadowWhoWalks said:
Orlando did some prep to find ways to defeat Servants as a human, and since he was able to keep up with Servants, like the rest of Clan Catalin, since he was given a Noble Phantasm by Alexander. So he is not an average Magus by any means.
Click to expand...
Most of Clan Calatin "magi" aren't even real Magi - I believe Vera and Orlando are the only ones somehow hinted to be true, inheritors Magi. John for example is the third son of a Magus lineage that hides his status from his family - he isn't the inheritor of either their crest or craft. Their lack of a Crest, at least in my opinion, greatly hinders their overall/average battle power - the capacity to enact spells by magical energy flow alone isn't really just a detail.

ShadowWhoWalks said:
Stheno and Euryale are able to fight in their Servant form.
Click to expand...
Able to fight and capable fighters are very different things. IIRC the text that talked about how Stheno and Euryale were actually stronger as Servants than in their true bodies never said anythign about giving them the capacity to use their new given abilities in a decent way. Servants are generally those who have honed their skills to their peak. Stheno and Euryale could be said as if babies with the capacity to display the lowest tier of Servants' vessel capacity.

Isn't there a phrase saying that Stheno or Euryale would die if not fed by someone or something like that? They were so true to the concept of ''a goddess'', therefore they should be workshipped, that they couldn't do shit themselves.
 
Another random idea I've been looking around -

I've began to cogitate the idea Rhongobongo doesn't actually ''holds'' mankind texture to Earth ONLY, but actually, as a proper tower, keeps something above it from faling down - an Atlas like structure. This idea started with Kirschtaria's Ideal Magecraft unique properties/requirements + Fantasy Trees description on how they were affecting the post-wipe Earth + Infos related to these. ''Human Sphere of Activity'', in this manner, would LITERALLY be a (half) ''sphere'', with something Firmamentum-like. (or Firewall like, if you prefer)
 
Eresh Gang here too


Tristan:
"That just now doesn't count! It doesn't count! It was just that I wasn't ready ... !"
"If I were to return to my castle, I'd be able to use any amount of magecraft! This is nothing alike to my true ability!"

Castoria:
"Magecraft is matter of forthrightly performing the necessary groundwork."
"Even absent a stock of thaumaturgical implements on hand, there are any number of substitutes available in this very auditorium."
(thinking) "For example, this carpet, which looks to be easily flammable; or that lamp, which looks like it could be detonated as a bomb, if I were to apply my mana."
"If even so, you run out of implements to use, and give the situation up as hopeless, it's only so to the extent of your own ineptitude."
"Now, listen well!"
"It's a hundred years too early for you to be taking up magecraft! Approach this again with the sincerity of a novice, and train yourself up as of a handicrafts classroom!"
(thoughts) "Yoshi, it's decided!"
Click to expand...
Quote from LB6 that is very... confusing? If using a more traditional / Nasuverse is Hard Magic view.
 
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