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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

BasedNecoScaler69 said:
vsbattles.com

Shiki Ryougi vs Yhwach (2-6-0)

It's time to put another one of the Shiki's vs fodder. SBA Literal Emptiness: 2 Anime Hitler: Yhwach uses Schrifts Speed Equalized. 20m range Ryougi is using her melty blood key. Yhwach is using Soul King Absorbed https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ryougi_Shiki...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
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I mean, this reiterates a fight that occurs in KNK, Kamekura in Future Gospel, at least "The Almighty" part, a fair bit.
 
Tdjwo said:
Oh I never realized Tohno Shiki got upgraded to 1A. I thought we never used hax to determine profiles tiering. If this is the case, shouldn't Gilgamesh get 1A via holy scriptures?
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Are you talking about Burial Agency HS or about Dup Shimati/Tablet of Destiny?
 
Tdjwo said:
Oh I never realized Tohno Shiki got upgraded to 1A. I thought we never used hax to determine profiles tiering. If this is the case, shouldn't Gilgamesh get 1A via holy scriptures?
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3fcee0ab592588723ea736a2c643a0aa.png
 
Mmh true (especially since it's a big part of his character) but are we sure it would work like the rest of his treasure, the whole older = better?

I'm not trying to prevent 1-A Gilgamesh (I LOVE this character so I would be happy as hell if he gets that), it's just that it's a pretty major upgrade to perform so we better have solid stuff to back it up
 
Tdjwo said:
He should have them. All man made shit "belongs" to him. If he could own various NP's owned by other humans, then he can definitely own Holy scriptures.
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There's a problem here...
Gilgamesh: "Your life, your legend, has been sublimated into a Noble Phantasm. It is only that kind of Noble Phantasm that I do not have. ---That is, I'm at a disadvantage." (ギル「貴様の人生、逸話を宝具として昇華したものだろう。その手の宝具だけは我の手にはない。——これは、 我も分が悪いか」?)
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HS are essentially the legend of the catholic/christian god made into conceptual weapons.
■ Gate of Babylon: King's Treasures
Rank: E~A++
Type: Anti-Unit Noble Phantasm
Range: -
The Golden City that is the King's Treasury, moreover the golden key connected to it. Treasures such as many Noble Phantasm prototypes, or the models of humanity's inventions from all times and places, these rare items were stored. They can be taken out freely. Naturally whether or not they can be handled depends on the user.
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Seventh Holy Scripture & Triten are both "conceptual weapons" as Holy Scriptures. Both are technically alive, Nanako and Hibiki. Seventh -
A treasured holy relic created by the Holy Church to demonstrate the Lord's power, though for a long time there was no one to use it. The embodiment of a miracle crafted by human hands. A conceptual weapon structured into a scripture a thousand years ago by luring a rare phantasmal species still lingering on the surface and forging divine iron by casting the girl who served as a lure into the fires of the furnace.
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So - Holy/Sacred Relic, using a Phantasmal Species and Divine Iron.

Triten - model of the Universe, replica of the tripartite structure of man, Body/Mind/Soul, made when trying to proof God's Love. So, if Gil has the original, he would have... the Universe? God (Catholic)'s Love?

None of the HS so far shown are "humanity's inventions", really, in the sense that they would be derivatives of human wisdom/human concepts.
 
LehenDuo said:
There's a problem here...

HS are essentially the legend of the catholic/christian god made into conceptual weapons.

Seventh Holy Scripture & Triten are both "conceptual weapons" as Holy Scriptures. Both are technically alive, Nanako and Hibiki. Seventh -

So - Holy/Sacred Relic, using a Phantasmal Species and Divine Iron.

Triten - model of the Universe, replica of the tripartite structure of man, Body/Mind/Soul, made when trying to proof God's Love. So, if Gil has the original, he would have... the Universe? God (Catholic)'s Love?
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Maybe some sort of primeval scroll or carvings on rock or something like that but otherwise yeah
 
Tdjwo said:
Holy scriptures is a 1A hax via its feat against Roa. Gil owns every man-made thing including weapons and NP's.
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I don't see any ee on its page(it should have them).only ee goes for ap.

also how did shiki even get ap for his EE,isn't his hax 1-A due to overcoming 1-A resistance?
 
Violetcyanide said:
snip
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In a similar case, Shallow Vernal had for a long time outerversal plot hax despite her "Avatar" being like tier low 1-C/1-C in her "weaker" keys.

Isis Remnant has 5D/7D death hax but thats not listed on her profile in the ap section (its stated in the ability section tho)
 
vsbattles.com

Milf vs Golden Dude (Shiki Ryougi vs Gilgamesh)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Gilgamesh_(Fate_Series)?so=search https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ryougi_Shiki?so=search Melty Blood Ryougi is used (With a Knife) Servant Gilgamesh is used SBA Otherwise Does Ryougi speedblitz or does Gilgamesh win by throwing and spamming slot of stuff...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

I want to know what the rest of you guys think of this tbh?
 
There are a number of factual errors (most of them headcannons that are repeated ad nauseaum, but no one can provide a damn source...) and a number of things that are basically speculation. I would suggest you use more quotes and etc from the original work.
 
LehenDuo said:
There are a number of factual errors (most of them headcannons that are repeated ad nauseaum, but no one can provide a damn source...) and a number of things that are basically speculation. I would suggest you use more quotes and etc from the original work.
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if everyone has such scathing critiques, They too should try and contribute in some way if they can or want to TBF.
 
TheSilverKing14 said:
if everyone has such scathing critiques, They too should try and contribute in some way if they can or want to TBF.
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I do understand your point, but the fact is that "malignant information" are not only a thing in-verse. There are MULTIPLE "facts" that are repeated everywhere until they are taken as true that are ultimately void of realness. Age of Man's Texture being a Reality Marble for example - its not once or twice that this has been said as a fact.

And I do admit that sometimes its not even a thing done intentionally - specially the stories written by Nasu himself draw VERY HEAVILY from real life sources and leave huge "holes" that are perfectly filled if one knows the references he's using (Buddhism is one of the most common I think) - but these very rarely are actually said IN-VERSE/IN-MATERIAL, and therefore should be analyzed very carrefully, or be taken as "inspiration" rather than "add-on materials".

One thing that is specially frustrating is how the characters are always taken as reliable narrators when they have multiple times discussed things as speculation, proven wrong, they have NO ******* WAY to know the things for sure, etc.

The materials are online. TMDict for example has all "Dictionary" terms in it. Type-moon Wikia, even if the pages themselves can be prone to error, have a number of citations at the end that can be used. Etc.
 
LehenDuo said:
I do understand your point, but the fact is that "malignant information" are not only a thing in-verse. There are MULTIPLE "facts" that are repeated everywhere until they are taken as true that are ultimately void of realness. Age of Man's Texture being a Reality Marble for example - its not once or twice that this has been said as a fact.

And I do admit that sometimes its not even a thing done intentionally - specially the stories written by Nasu himself draw VERY HEAVILY from real life sources and leave huge "holes" that are perfectly filled if one knows the references he's using (Buddhism is one of the most common I think) - but these very rarely are actually said IN-VERSE/IN-MATERIAL, and therefore should be analyzed very carrefully, or be taken as "inspiration" rather than "add-on materials".

One thing that is specially frustrating is how the characters are always taken as reliable narrators when they have multiple times discussed things as speculation, proven wrong, they have NO ******* WAY to know the things for sure, etc.

The materials are online. TMDict for example has all "Dictionary" terms in it. Type-moon Wikia, even if the pages themselves can be prone to error, have a number of citations at the end that can be used. Etc.
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I get what your saying. But, if we were to try and seriously search for everything to cover nasu cosmology we would have it be novel length and have to dig into the stuff nasu is inspired by such as Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism etc and yes Lehen nasu uses the Abrahamic religions a lot for his things.
 
That's why I said to try to use citations and etc, because there's the problem that there are holes - whatever method you use to feel them, however justification you come up with, is headcannon. Even if the boo itself you are taken as reference is quoted in the work or things similar.

THis is not a thing of Nasuverse only, really - Visual Novels in general leave a LOT of ambiguity and etc. The construction of a "cosmology explained" should begin by acknowleaging that these exist and that even if some things may seen "very obvious" theu could in the next second be contradicted.
 
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LehenDuo said:
That's why I said to try to use citations and etc, because there's the problem that there are holes - whatever method you use to feel them, however justification you come up with, is headcannon. Even if the boo itself you are taken as reference is quoted in the work or things similar.
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I mean, if you have any other information you would like to suggest to Neco adds, go and feel free to list what that should be and what scans we should use, etc.
 
I will try to find some time to submit some arguments with their proper sources.

One thing that I will point out is that it seems to be a confusion of the Planet Earth with the World / Gaia. The very tmdict entry cited under "Gaia represents the Earth's innate will to survive and thrive, while Alaya embodies the collective unconscious desire of humankind to avoid extinction." clearly begins with "The Counter Force here is the safety device formed by the collective unconsciousness. The prayer to avert the demise of mankind, Alaya. And the prayer to extend the life of the planet, Gaia. These are the two aspect of the Counter Force. Both aspects have the goal of extending the existence of the current World." Earth/the Planet, here, IS NOT an active agent (of the Counter-Force) - this World that is being "preserved" is the VERY TEXTURE, the "Human World".
A satisfactory example, Miss Kyrielight.
The Tower stands at the end of the world, and its administrator wields the lance.
The question is, why does the Tower pierce the planet?
There is a theory that our world — the human world — is nothing more than one of the textured layers that wrap the surface of the planet, like a carpet.
To the planet, this is the consciousness of the intelligent lifeforms that reign supreme. In other words, our physical laws.
The “carpet” that maintains the laws of physics is our world. It is stitched to the planet so that it does not peel away.
This seems to be the phenomenon called the Tower of the End. It is also not limited to Britain.
There are multiple such pillars located throughout the world. One is the holy lance in the hands of the Lion King.
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To say that Gaia is a derivation of the Planet, of Earth, literally makes zero sense given these things. Gaia doesn't represent the "innate will" of the planet, the function of it is very clearly said - the thing PRESERVED is the WORLD, HUMAN WORLD/TEXTURE - the extension of the planet's life is liteally mere necessity - see the cases when "Earth dies" and the World proceeds to either die with it or at the very least be warped to such an extent its very questionable to suggest its a "Human World" (NOTES most notably, but this has been talked about in Illya also.)(Very subjetively, the BEAST OF GAIA serves who? Altrouge - a Dead Apostle & TA half-breed, NOT the realizaton of the miracle of the creation of a Brain Body of Earth, basically its Alter Ego, Arcueid) Even when "the life of Earth is somewhat preserved", Humanity itself exists as a being that CONSUMES and "robs" the Earth. Ado Edem/Slash Emperor describes this:
As the sword grows larger, it chips away at the earth to do so.
This method of gaining energy by eroding the earth is similar to that of the old world. Edem’s Knight Arm can be called the embodiment of human nature, as it destroys the world in order to protect humans.
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There is an inversion of the relationship, basically. Earth couldn't care less for the World in a "mere survival" sense- multiple Worlds exist in it. Now, there's no World without the Earth. The World depends UPON the Earth, but the Earth DOES NOT depend on the World.

Gaia isn't Earth auto-preservation, its the preservation of Earth because of the World, Human World, auto-preservation.

There are a number of other blatant inconsistencies if Earth's interets are taken as the motivators of a Gaia/Couter-Froce.. From the need of Crimson Moon, to why, given Even Storage exists, (and CF has done mass murders of entire island countries before, so itself could be used, Event Storage isnt even needed), does it not "wills" it better, etc.
 
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Imma keep a blunt and say I don't ever see a cosmology blog for Nasuverse being accepted. Way too many people disagree with where certain aspects of the verse scale, too much uncited stuff, and most staff don't really bother commenting on threads related to it.

Anyways, this'll be my last comment on anything Nasuverse related for awhile. Dealing with this verse on this site is draining, I already don't agree with a lot of the scaling, Servants are wanked with BS resistances, and the back and forth over Nasu statements are all tiring. I said this before but imo the verse should be deleted and rebuilt from the ground up.
It shouldn't even have a tier 1 rating, since it doesn't have a cosmology blog. IDK how that was accepted. It'd technically be easy to remove that in a CRT

Anyways, y'all won't be seeing me comment in these threads for a long while. I'll just say I hope more people actually read/play the works, so we don't have more misinformation like "50%" Arcueid and Slash Emperor being comparable to EA (the latter STILL hasn't been fixed), etc. Just, in general actually look into the older entries and not just F/GO since it seems most are only looking at that nowadays
But yeah I'm out
 
Violatas said:
Imma keep a blunt and say I don't ever see a cosmology blog for Nasuverse being accepted. Way too many people disagree with where certain aspects of the verse scale, too much uncited stuff, and most staff don't really bother commenting on threads related to it.

Anyways, this'll be my last comment on anything Nasuverse related for awhile. Dealing with this verse on this site is draining, I already don't agree with a lot of the scaling, Servants are wanked with BS resistances, and the back and forth over Nasu statements are all tiring. I said this before but imo the verse should be deleted and rebuilt from the ground up.
It shouldn't even have a tier 1 rating, since it doesn't have a cosmology blog. IDK how that was accepted. It'd technically be easy to remove that in a CRT

Anyways, y'all won't be seeing me comment in these threads for a long while. I'll just say I hope more people actually read/play the works, so we don't have more misinformation like "50%" Arcueid and Slash Emperor being comparable to EA (the latter STILL hasn't been fixed), etc. Just, in general actually look into the older entries and not just F/GO since it seems most are only looking at that nowadays
But yeah I'm out
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That's sad, but if you think that's the best, then it's understandable. 🫡
 
Violatas said:
Imma keep a blunt and say I don't ever see a cosmology blog for Nasuverse being accepted. Way too many people disagree with where certain aspects of the verse scale, too much uncited stuff, and most staff don't really bother commenting on threads related to it.

Anyways, this'll be my last comment on anything Nasuverse related for awhile. Dealing with this verse on this site is draining, I already don't agree with a lot of the scaling, Servants are wanked with BS resistances, and the back and forth over Nasu statements are all tiring. I said this before but imo the verse should be deleted and rebuilt from the ground up.
It shouldn't even have a tier 1 rating, since it doesn't have a cosmology blog. IDK how that was accepted. It'd technically be easy to remove that in a CRT

Anyways, y'all won't be seeing me comment in these threads for a long while. I'll just say I hope more people actually read/play the works, so we don't have more misinformation like "50%" Arcueid and Slash Emperor being comparable to EA (the latter STILL hasn't been fixed), etc. Just, in general actually look into the older entries and not just F/GO since it seems most are only looking at that nowadays
But yeah I'm out
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I agree whoever accepted 4D servant invul or Magi resistances was on shisha and that's sad violatas hope off-site for Nasu for you does not end up being a disaster.
 
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
i mean magic circuits, are explicitly higher dimensional. you have people like base aoko blowing up 5 dimensional shit
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Higher-dimensional means nothing and it also is not higher infinities of power off-site wise and Aoko never blew up anything 5D flat snark was moon that iirc had nothing explicitly higher dimensional about it. Besides the mystery-based resistances are an inverse mechanic that should not translate to other verses and the evidence for HD resistance is not foolproof either. Iirc lehen debunked it a while back but nobody cared to actually listen to what he said and as Lordgin said "Nasu fans are too obsessed with gunning for the highest possible value without evaluating the context behind the stuff they site"
 
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