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Basically he was "too unbeatable" according to Abe no Seimei. As Abe no Seimei also told him that Beasts are Evils that humanity has to overcome. Not Evils that will overcome humanity.
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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)
- Thread starter DemonGodMitchAubin
- Start date
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and that’s why he lost
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As far as I remember, it was pretty much the part about loving Humanity that was the problem. Don't remember anything else being said.
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Fujimaru said it, not Abe no Seimei (darn my memory). But Beasts are meant for humans to overcome.
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That and because Luck EX + Protagonism EX is impossible to beat.
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he said it himself “evil never wins”
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I relate to that.
With Nasuverse growing larger and larger, remembering things in detail gets very hard.
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As with a lot of villains, a lot of circumstances were just in our favor at the right moment. Kintoki regained his power from his youth, he accessed the Golden Huge Bear, Ibuki resisted Douman and gave Kintoki her sword.
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cernunnos was a fricking challenge though
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IDK, I only play JP, I don't read the script of JP.
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Funnily enough, Nasu has described a "advantage cycle" that went something like Humans win over Heroes, Heroes win over Monsters and Monsters win over Humans. So, as Douman became a Rakshasa, it only makes sense that the Heroes would beat him.
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Do yourself a favor and read Avalon. You will thank me if you like Nasu's work.
#CuSolos /s
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Can't believe me singlehandedly stopping your weird takes from being accepted, i.e AE>Void, and 5-B base Melty Blood cast is me being debunked by you and your discord, unfortunate
@Violatas
There's no reason to not word it like that when it's true rip
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it says she was just about the only one who could in good translations. Paul just used shitty MTL to translate what has been translated by actual translators.
so let me ask you, which part of "Only Saver, who has by all rights mastered the esoteric ability to completely turn off his sexual desire, is able to match up to this woman incarnate" did you not understand?
how is Kiara stronger than Amaterasu by being compared to what has been stated to be the third strongest group of entities in the verse? idk. you tell me. and tell me how a Sun Goddess is superior to a Bodhisattva of "universal scale and power."
she thinks she can in GO. a lot different from a guidebook saying her stronger version cannot.
it's the top 3 statement from Nasu. i've sent it to you before I believe. Zeus and the showings in GO are way too low to be anywhere near the top 3 or Extra level.
so you are admitting Extra Worlds work differently and have different lore? so you admit they can't scale?
Servantverse is a parody and its canon is questionable. no one really seems to have a straight answer on how to gauge it 100%. they generally consider it pseudo-canon or in a grey area.
absolutely. he's definitely good at gaining a following by making bullshit sound more clever than it actually is. he's also entertaining to listen to even if you realize he's wrong.
not sure what this has to do with much, but Gilgamesh explicitly said he would unlock his treasury fully to face Kiara. that was one of his most rare exceptions but it did happen.
what? BB never had her NP sealed at any point in the story. she constantly used C.C.C for different things. i think you're confusing gameplay for lore. she only uses her NP on Turn 10 in the game. but this is just a gameplay mechanic in the same way Gilgamesh clearly doesn't have to be below 30% health to start blasting with Ea. Or wait 3 turns to use Enuma Elish.
yes but there is also statements that make her blatantly seem superior in general like some of the ones i mentioned up above in this post and earlier. and regardless of compatibility, it just shows that Arcueid being the only one who can defeat Amaterasu is not true. since it says she's just about the only one and Amaterasu was excluded from the people who can fight Kiara.
honestly i think Nasuverse started getting inconsistencies when Fate came around. all of the old series can be fairly gauged without any issues really. FSN alone was somewhat inconsistent with its feats though and things slowly started to spiral out of control. though it seems more inconsistent than it actually is when you see battle boarders with the constant high-ball wank interpretations like FTL speed and or casual planet busting Servants without NPs and shit, which is just clearly not the case.
i do value consistent power scaling though. not as someone who cares about who is stronger than who, but to keep a story as consistent as possible.
Jupiter was one. but the more impressive one was the death of Judgement. her death cry alone split a continent in half. imagine an actual attack. and she was killed by an Ether Liner, so they scale as well. and Types of course scale since Pluto could fight Judgement's 5 sisters and stalemate via mutual death.
well humanity throughout every era has always had outliers that are way above the rest of the lot. Zelretch is just one example of a few. i think it's very reasonable that a much more powerful humanity 500 years later would produce some outliers that can kill Types. and 8 known people out of potentially billions is an extremely smaller number. and now only Edem is left.
Type-Saturn also was fighting a entire continent's worth of people by itself successfully and killed one of the guys left who had the capability to kill it. it was only eventually brought down by Edem after the death of Godo. so it took on an entire continent worth of humans 500 years more advanced than the modern day, with the guy actually having the means to kill it. despite this it was winning, killed that one guy, and then lost when Edem came. i think that's pretty threatening in my opinion.
i agree that i wish we got to see more of it. though i do think humanity likely dies since it is stated to be a hopeless story. not concrete proof. but that seems to be nodding in that direction. rare to see a big Angel Notes fan. I know one other guy that liked it that much and started Nasuverse on it.
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Hey guys
I feel like they did boudica dirty in fgo, like everyone else, I’m disappointed that they turned her into a goblin Rape joke and a loudspeaker for Nero.
I feel like they did boudica dirty in fgo, like everyone else, I’m disappointed that they turned her into a goblin Rape joke and a loudspeaker for Nero.
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i didn't make either of those threads. the only CRT I made that you commented on you agreed with and it passed, which was the biggest Tsukihime revision to date. so that "haha gatcha" attempt completely backfired on you.
you literally said that dropping a ******* moon is complex multiversal as an excuse for Sion tanking it to be an outlier. then you said the moon Aoko busted was likely complex multiversal. and you say I'm wanking? look in the mirror. you're projecting your own issues onto me. i would never argue for such blatant wank.
also no one in that thread was arguing for 5-B base Melty Blood. shows your lack of reading comprehension. do you down 7 bottles of Jack Daniels and light a bong before debating people?
you also didn't stop those threads. one thread died outright. the last comment was some guy asking if you were actually going to reply to me because you completely failed at debunking me. you of course never did and the thread died. oh but yeah, they were all from my Discord even though I don't even know who the last commenter was. way to try and dismiss anyone disagreeing with you as being part of the same group as if that even means anything.
but again, I didn't make that thread and no one was arguing for 5-B Melty Blood. you were really riding that 1-C moon drop wank though. I specifically have disagreed with Violatas arguments of planet level MB characters in a civil discussion. you can ask him yourself or look on my profile wall. along with several other things i thought were rated way too high. i've also stated 4-D resistances for MB (and in general) are wank. so why don't you look closely to see who is actually wanking?
and of course as usual, you don't even attempt to defend your other objectively wrong takes when they are called out. the fact you came in here shit talking me when everyone else was being civil is your inferiority complex kicking into gear on full display for all to see.
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Seriously Septem sucked and the only way they can make boudica up is by making an avenger version of her
TypeOU
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Not really. A sophist doesn't use his previously established fame to gather mindless followers like moths to a flame. He finds arguments that can't easily be proven wrong even though they are or present his argument in such a way that you miss the flaws in logic. Seth does neither of these. He just straight-up states factually incorrect things.
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a bit off topic, but Seth's ego is massive. I saw him saying he's above other debaters because he does it as his job. was funny as hell to listen to.
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That's part of the reason why Seth is so disliked iirc
TypeOU
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That and the whole TOP goku=true form darkseid thing (and all of his other bad takes)
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when did he say this? you sure it was him? i know some people confuse what his even worse fans say with what he says. his fans tend to be more extreme. i know he wanks Goku but I didn't think that much for his DBS version. could be wrong though.
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I mean, Avalon comes out next year in NA, so I'm looking forward to it.
TypeOU
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Nah I vividly remember it being Seth. I can't find it on the spot because twitter is big but it was something along these lines
edit: youtube, not twitter, sorry.
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it's gonna be difficult though
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Not really. This the second time on this thread someone has said its "necessary" they can just be rude whenever they want when its really not. Also rule 1 btw. You can literally just respectfully say why you don't agree.
@Pokemonfan807 alright I'm back from work. Will check that thread you posted later. Tired as hell.
Also small rant, but I've said this before, but I'm tired of Fate. Wish parts like Mahoyo, Garden of Sinners, and Tsukihime/Melty would get even half as much content and discussion as Fate does. I know Fate is clearly the most popular aspect of Nasuverse and is what has gathered most fans, but jesus do I think it can use a bit of rest.
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I seriously wish that Nasu does something similar to El-Melloi novels, but for Mahoyo
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Hey, apologies for dropping in out of nowhere, but wanted to ask if anyone here might be willing to give their opinion on a question thread I had about Nasuverse cosmology?
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The point still stands, Berserker of white is the only one capable of defeating Amaterasu which mean Kiara can't. Here's the raw if you not believe it.
EXTRA、ＣＣＣだけの話なら、金色白面を『どれほど勝率が低くとも撃破できる状況にできる』のは彼女ぐらいである。(Berserker of white Material).
You need to do your research on what's Bodhisattva means. Buddha (Sakyamuni) is above the average Bodhisattvas and Amaterasu is the Primordial Buddha which mean she's the strongest Buddha. Kama/Mara is also said to have universe as the domain. In this case Mara is at equal power to the Bodhisattvas.
She think so because he possess Nega-Saver skill.
It's Primordial Daemon not True Daemon and you shouldn't say a part of it, Nasu says that if without counting Servant. Also Kiara is not a True Daemon she's just similar existence with power close to True Daemon.
What part of "Zeus Terminal body is compared to primordial Buddha" statement you didn't understand?
In Extra world of data concept and legends became literal hence it holds absolute power within it. In case you don't know, Zeus' Lighting is stated to be able to incinerate universe. If Zeus' use it in Virtual world of extra it became literal thing and Kiara wouldn't be able to stand a chance against it because universe is her domain while Zeus could incinerate it with a single thunderbolt.
Servantverse is written by Nasu and he himself has said that world follow different rule than FGO world, if you talk about canonity GudaGuda world is the only one confirmed as non-Canon.
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you sending me a raw and just claiming actual people who have translated entire guidebooks are wrong is not a convincing argument. especially since I've seen several of you use those same translations. it's also especially bad when considering your supposed true translation contradicts another statement while the actual translation does not. makes you think doesn't it?
Amaterasu is the sun god and is also amped in conceptual space. without the conceptual space amp, each tail is a 9x amp if memory serves while Kiara is of universal scale and power. fact is she is explicitly excluded from the people who can defeat Kiara, which lines up exactly with the actual translation that says Arcueid is "just about" the only one who can defeat her. not sure if that primordial buddha power scaling you're pulling is from Nasuverse or actual Buddhism, but it's very clear in Extra that Kiara is superior. there is absolutely no reason for me to believe your supposedly accurate translation when it contradicts other statements in that same guidebook. going to trust the people who actually translate entire guidebooks and aren't involved in versus debates. and if you're asking me to put that through Google Translate or MTL that's just silly.
Primordial Demon is a term never used in-lore in regards to Nasuverse and DDD, so that is likely a translation thing since I've seen true interchanged with Primordial. DDD was also specifically asked in the question and should be referring to those. but if you want to disregard it, True Daemons based off their own scaling and even potentially showings would already be in that top 3 seat. and i never said Kiara was a True Daemon. i said she was on the level of one. and we have no idea why Nasu excluded Servants considering no Servant at any point in the franchise has even been close to top 3.
conceptual space wanking Zeus to actually destroy a universe with lightning is nothing to a walking hax machine of a comparable scale who would likely be amped to in such a place.
i never said it was non-canon. i said most people cannot figure out how canon it is. people just consider it to be in a grey area because of the weirdness of it.
basically your argument is that if GO god-tiers were in conceptual space that they would be amped massively to these Extra tiers? maybe? but there's not enough evidence of this. and Amaterasu in conceptual space has already been excluded from the people who can fight Kiara. there's really no way to reasonably get around this statement. hax also matter a lot, so they'd also need to get a lot of hax from conceptual space amping them. an ungodly amount that they don't currently possess since authority does not work like this website claims at all.
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Question in nasuverse is immeasurable speed baseline or higher than baseline
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Late here but I think Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter have scarred this site on ladder scaling. This site has a weird issue where, as far as fighting games go, many are hesitant on a good deal of the cast scaling to each other in some shape or form. I've seen plenty of threads on fighting games verses that I'm definitely not bull ******** when I say this. Heck, another verse that I've been trying to upgrade, DoA, has character profiles leagues below Ryu Hayabusa, even though while he's definitely somewhat "above" most of the cast, he absolutely shouldn't be magnitudes higher. Buuuut most won't accept the scaling so I've kinda just given up.
But yeah the ladder feats for the Melty games are fine and have been accepted on the profiles for years.
Eh TBH I don't really agree with immeasurable speed myself. Immeasurable speed as a concept is something I've always had issues with admittedly. I'd say something like DC's Flash moving faster than the Speed Force itself is immeasurable though.
That being said, infinite speed is fine. Top tiers like Void, Archetype, Kiara, etc (anyone really that's > BB) should upscale her infinite speed feat by a massive amount.
But by this site's standards, the immeasurable rating would definitely be above baseline
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what’s baseline immeasurable speed anyway?
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it's more so the fact he's for it and then against it back and forth constantly. wishy washy. and he made up things that are easily disproven by anyone who plays the games, like claiming anyone can beat anyone in the arcade routes which blatantly does not happen. i can understand being skeptical due to other fighting games that are all over the place, so long as you're consistent and try to research the series in question for yourself to reach a conclusion. but he was neither consistent nor just being skeptical nor doing any research. not like I suffered from these either since my CRT was the one where he was for it, so this isn't coming from a place of salt on my end.
i mostly agree with this take. immeasurable speed is really just moving through time via some form of movement. it's just a different type of movement. it's not faster or slower than infinite speed on its own. someone with infinite speed could speed blitz someone with finite speed that can move through time with their movements before they take a single step. and you can't say immeasurable speed is just some arbitrary speed beyond infinite since you can't go beyond infinite speed. complete misuse of set theory any normal person would facepalm at.
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Well uh depends on your own standards for immeasurable speed. Like I said, I personally don't agree with this site's standards for it myself.
Also yeah that's completely valid. I actually have some off site friends that don't really use "immeasurable" as a rating at all. I 100% can get why one wouldn't use a speed rating above infinite.
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What do you mean? The point still stands, stick to the main point. Berserker of white is the only one who could defeat Amaterasu, there's no better source than the raw itself, blame yourself for not being able to speak Japanese and relying on the translators. Where the contradiction? The scans please.
Bruh, i don't know where you get that. Amaterasu is the primordial Buddha, it was stated multiple times that She is Dainichi Nyorai (大日如来) in Nasuverse. Bring that scans over here because I don't know which one you talking about. I too read the mats,
Kiara got power of Universal Scale because she is becoming the Devil Bodhisattva the power to govern solar system (Trichiliocosm) is not limited to Kiara but to all Bodhisattva in general, not to mention that Tamamo said her nine-tailed form could threaten Great Trichiliocosm which is not contradict anything (she said it's equal to Goetia and the statements about Goetia being more powerful than Kiara).
You need to look the Outer gods, they're described as similar being to true daemons.
It is though. Regular servant normally cannot travel at the speed of light but it was possible in the world of data.
How do you determine something as non-canon? What's the method to determine it? Please explain to me. Because Servanverse is written by Nasu himself and he never said that as non-canon.
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well yeah I remember people saying it doesn’t matter if infinite or above infinite Or infinite squared. It’s still infinite
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I'll prolly going to continue the Bazett spam later on, maybe sion as well but her Etherlite can be such of a** to handled with
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all i'm seeing here is baseless claims of a guy baselessly claiming he knows Japanese and knows it better than people who translate guidebooks that many use and consider fine. i have zero reason to believe you. in fact i have reason to believe the opposition who translated all of this because their stuff does not contradict anything while yours does. honestly i think you're full of it.
the stuff i already sent that says Buddha is the only one in Extra that can fight Kiara which explicitly excludes Amaterasu. and the fact Kiara is stated to be of universal scale and power while Amaterasu is comparable to the Sun and each tail is only a 9x multiplier each from base Tamamo when not in conceptual space. Amaterasu is only real crazy with conceptual space amps and that still puts her nowhere near Kiara who is stronger even without that and also would likely be amped as well in it.
True Daemons were compared to the actual Outer Gods written by Lovecraft. it specifically is a cross-fiction comparison to get a better idea of what they are. this statement even came out before Nasuverse Outer Gods were fully introduced IIRC. and the comparison wasn't a power comparison. it was just comparing their nature.
Gilgamesh flew across the galaxy very quickly outside of the Moon Cell's reality. so Extra Worlds in general work differently. not just the Moon Cell.
considering it's just goofy stuff that's all over the place? that's generally what makes people think this in the same way Carnival Phantasm isn't canon. regardless it doesn't change much.
contradicts all materials we know about her from Extra. this is just Tamamo's overconfidence.
you want me to resend everything I've already sent to you before? alright.
Glossary | TMdict
Glossary | TMdict
here it compares Amaterasu to the sun and shows how far she scales above Servants.
Glossary | TMdict
so let's recap here.
Amaterasu is compared to the sun in power.
Kiara is compared to the universe in scale and power.
Amaterasu is 43,046,721 times stronger than One Tail Tamamo without conceptual space amps. And One Tail Tamamo is incredibly weak compared to A rank Servants. that is nowhere near even normal universe level, let alone Nasuverse's universe level. that's not even planetary going off the math. honestly doesn't speak well to the raw power of the Sun and Moon Cell since the latter's power was compared to the former. though the Moon Cell creates its multiverses with hax and whatnot and its clearly a multiversal reality warping machine. so i'm not trying to put it down from an overall perspective or even the sun.
Kiara is compared to True Daemon's in power which also seem to have some weird ass universal BS in DDD which is just a little side thing that further coincides with her already uncontradicted universe statements.
Amaterasu is only crazy OP in conceptual space. but nothing suggest she gets amped anywhere near Kiara's level. and Kiara would likely be amped in conceptual space too which would widen the gap again.
Kiara is also stated to be able to easily manage the solar system which would include the sun.
every single point of reference in Extra and CCC shows that Kiara is massively superior to Amaterasu. so am i to trust all of this along with Arcueid being stated to be "just about" the only one who can defeat Amaterasu, which all lines up with everything else pointing out the fact she is inferior to Kiara? or am I supposed to believe you who has no proven credibility in the slightest and whose supposed claims on what was really said contradicts everything established so far? how about no?
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