How Would a Multiversal Level+ Attack with Multiversal+ Range Affect the Nasuverse?

[Leafbladie]

Apologies for the random question, the thought popped into my mind today and it’s been hell trying to look through various sources about the details of Nasuverse’s cosmology to see what might be relevant or not. I got the idea when I heard it mentioned that destroying the Earth in Nasuverse would actually require more energy than it would take to destroy the Earth in other fictional media.

If you want a specific character for this to imagine the attack, the one I was thinking of was Ultimate Madoka from Puella Magic Madoka Magica. With her strongest attack she can fire an infinite number of arrows through an infinite numbers of parallel universes across all of time simultaneously, destroying them so completely as to leave nothing behind but a void, and then through her own power she reforms them all.

I was wondering what would happen if such an attack was fired within the Nasuverse, not just to the Earth and those who inhabit it, but to the planets, stars, the mooncell, the root, and any other significant features within the verse I didn’t think of. Would some force be able respond to the attack before it could destroy the cosmology whether they knew it was coming in advance or not? Would anyone survive it? Would there be any long term affects from this attack on whatever was left, if anything at all.

 

[Leafbladie]

Bump

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

We are mainly shown the Human Order version of the universe which is a dimension that covers the planet. The actual Nasuverse universe doesn't have laws of physics, and contains alien beings who operate on different common sense, such as lacking a concept of death or a concept of being affected by physical attacks.

But for the planet itself, in Nasuverse cosmology the planet is covered by a thin layer, called a Texture, that contains the world as the dominant species understands it.
For example, ancient Greeks and ancient Scandinavia can have their own cosmologies with separate celestial objects (So Fafnir eating the sun in Ragnarök doesn't affect the sun in Greece). After the Age of the Gods, there is just one surface Texture that contains the laws of physics, and most of the magical beasts moved to a Texture that exists below the Surface Texture called the Reverse Side of the World. You can think of them as pocket dimensions covering parts or the entirety of the planet.

Below are images from the Reverse Side of the World showing the sky, even though from the perspective of those within the Surface Texture's the Reverse Side of the World is subterrain.

Spoiler: Reverse Side of the World images

The Textures are explained in the Garden of Avalon novel.

Spoiler: Garden of Avalon explanation

"Merlin, I listen to you obediently as you speak the truth, but could you please stop referring to people as if they're lumps of iron?" "My apologies. Next up is the Holy Lance. Rather than defeating foreign enemies, its purpose is to stabilise the planet... or to be more specific, anchor it. The Fairy Kingdom you mentioned earlier isn't in a completely different world. It is right beneath you, in the Reverse Side of the World that is separated from us by merely a thin sheet.” "Beneath me, you say... You mean underground?" "You can think of it that way. Essentially, beneath the foundation that is 'your world', there exists a gap which is the 'Fairy Kingdom', with the Earth's surface underneath. The Fairy Kingdom and your world are both nothing more than layers. Textures. Each of them are outward appearances attached to the Earth's surface.” "Textures... So you mean Britain?" "Not just Britain, it encompasses the entire world. In fact, Britain is pretty special. Artoria, what you can see with your eyes isn't everything. When you humans attained the Seat of Primacy, the fairies foresaw that the state of the planet would change, and accepted it. The planet alters its physical laws according to the beings that live on its surface. As such, the era that was brimming with arcana and magical energy began to decline gradually upon humans becoming the greatest power. Gods, nature in the possession of personalities, became mere natural phenomena, and the ether in the air dispersed. The passing of Solomon, the King of Magecraft, accelerated this decline of the arcane. And five hundred years ago, the Age of Gods finally came to an end. This planet became independent of nature, its ownership passed on to animals that could survive even outside of the natural cycle. Yes, to put it in simple terms, you humans. The intelligence... or the mentality that humans had acquired was directed towards illuminating the darkness of 'uncertain laws'. As a result, the planet's rules were altered to become 'laws that best suit human life'. Both dragons and fairies are infringements of this rule. Because of that, they left to inhabit the Reverse Side of the World, ceding the surface to you. The only ones remaining are those who lacked the power to migrate or those who refused to accept their end. The former are harmless but the latter pose a grave threat to humans. These powerful individuals are able to survive despite the loss of the magical energy in the air, with the potential of being threats to mankind for centuries. Anyway, you've become the representatives of this planet. But still, it's just a thin layer that can easily be peeled away. When you have a piece of cloth about to be blown away by the wind, what do you do? Leave it as it is? Obviously not. You pin it so that it doesn't come undone. The Holy Lance is what anchors the texture of the human world to the planet. The lance that shines at the world's end. The pillar that protects the primates, the Holy Lance Rhongomyniad."

They are also explained in Fate Grand/Order.

Spoiler: FGO explanations

Bedivere Merlin called it the “Tower at the Ends of the World.” A pillar of light that stands far west of the Isle of Britain. A tower that stands beyond the horizon... at the edge of the world. Sanzang A tower? But it's a lance, right? I mean... I understand they're both long and pointy, but... Bedivere That answer is beyond me, I fear... Mr. Holmes? Holmes There are two lances, Ms. Sanzang. The first is the massive tower that pierces this world: the lance in its physical form. It is an indication of the lance's strength. It would seem that it indeed exists as a tower, but it cannot be accessed by humans. Most importantly, it exists at the edge of this world. One can never reach the edge, no matter how much they walk. The tower stands at the edge of this world, seeing all of mankind, and protecting it. Tawara Touta Hmm... So, you're suggesting it's a powerful magical tower with a great view? Holmes And the other is the lance that the Lion King wields. Think of this as the shadow that this tower casts upon the world. A personal weapon that allows the user to use the skills, the Authority of the tower. Mash So the tower is the mainframe, while the lance is the terminal? Holmes A great analogy, Ms. Kyrielight. The tower will continue to exist at the edge of the world, while the lance is held by the tower's keeper. The only mystery that remains, is why the tower is pinned on this planet. There is a theory that our world, the human world, is nothing more than a texture placed upon the surface of this planet. Our understanding as this planet's ruling intelligent lifeform... the laws of physics as we know it... The texture that results from this understanding is our world. And it is sewn tightly to this planet so as not to be removed. What keeps it in place, my friends, is the phenomenon known as the “Tower at the Ends of the World.” And, this tower is not limited to the Isle of Britain, either. There are several around the world. One of which is the sacred lance currently in the Lion King's hands.

Evil Dragon ...Uh, first off, let me explain where you are right now. This is the Reverse Side of the World. Hmm, or maybe a hidden place on “the other side,” so to speak, is more accurate? Basically, you can think of it as a mythical land and the home of magical beasts. Your world, the human world, is built on human laws. ...This world, however, is entirely removed from those laws. This may be difficult to understand, but your world came to exist once humanity had covered the entire planet, like a cloth. But before that could happen, beings called Phantasmals fled here. [...] Evil Dragon If the Greater Grail went out of control, that would cause a great deal of trouble for all the Demonic Beasts who live here... It's even possible that an event like that, or its aftermath, could damage one of the anchors that holds the world together. If the clothーor texture, if you likeーis torn, the laws of physics will be turned on their heads, and the Age of Gods will end up mixing with modern times. And that...wouldn't end well for anybody. Humans and Demonic Beasts would only end up hurting each other.

Mash I never would have dreamed that there could be such a massive hollow space underneath the Great Pit... It doesn't look subterranean, either. It's more like an entirely different world... Holmes This is the true surface of the Earth. While it no doubt would appear to be the bowels of the Earth from up on Atlantis... ...it is, in fact, the true face of this Atlantic Lostbelt. Atlantis itself is mere camouflage.

Mash This is...it feels different from how the Water Mirror did when I got sent away in Norwich. Is this the Spirit Cave Albion? Communications are— Just like Da Vinci expected...all communications with Chaldea are cut off. Now identifying our current coordinates. 10...20...40...80...80!? Master. It may sound unbelievable, but we're currently 80 kilometers below the surface...! Senji Muramasa It's far deeper than Britain's Great Pit. Actually, could this even be considered underground? Not only is it pitch dark, but I can't even feel my footing. Merlin Ah, you can tell. This is a world of different layers. Put simply, it's like a different dimension. There's just a path down here from the surface thanks to Albion's influence. From here you go even further down. In pan-human history, Albion died at the 80 kilometer mark. However, in this Lostbelt it managed to open a path to Avalon. But that was too narrow for it to get through, so it had to die above ground. Choice Is there a Spirit Cave in pan-human history? Merlin There is. Over there it's called the Spirit Tomb though. The Spirit Tomb Albion of pan-human history is a dead end at this depth. Beyond that is the realm of fairies, a land that humans cannot enter. On the other hand, this one isn't bound by that limitation. This Lostbelt itself is a fairy realm. As such, you can go all the way. Put realistically, past the 400 kilometer depth all the way to the D-Layer 2,700 kilometers down... That's your destination—the Inner Sea of the Planet. Senji Muramasa We're only 80 kilometers in, and our destination is at 2,700? Isn't that asking a bit much? Merlin Not if you make use of shortcuts. When I said one hour, I wasn't talking about distance. I meant the time it takes. You can consecutively shorten the travel time to bring you closer to your goal. Then again, this is all a bit boring. Let's turn on some lights. Choice It suddenly became a cave! Merlin What do you think? This fits the name of the place a bit better, don't you think? Now, just keep going forwards. Each step you take will reduce the travel time. This is Earth's memory...no, it's more like an infosphere. You can get to your destination faster by skipping past vague information.

The Tower of Avalon It is the final paradise, filled with flowers of every imaginable color. In the day, it's filled with the spring sunlight and the scent of summer, and at night, you feel the fall air and look up at the winter stars. The earth is filled with flowers and insects. The forests with water and green and beasts. Beautiful fairies dance near the waterside. In the myths, this tiny little world is called the Land of Eternal Spring, or the Island of the Apple. It is a utopia, far beyond the reach of animals who possess wisdom. Its name is Avalon. The inner sea of the planet. It is another name for the place where the Earth's soul is kept.

The Camelot movie shows us how Rhongomyniad erases the Surface Texture:



To destroy Nasuverse's Earth, you need to destroy both the Surface Texture and the Reverse Side of the World Texture covering it. But deep within the Reverse Side of the World is Avalon, which is sixth dimensional and prevents anything less than six dimensions from harming or penetrating it.

Avalon # [noble phantasm] The Ever-distant Utopia. A sheathe crowned with the name of the land of fairies that appears in the legends of King Arthur, said to be wreathed in everlasting spring. It is a paradise reminiscent of the island in Greek mythology where the gods grew their golden apples of immortality. Not only does the holy sword’s sheathe heal all of its owner’s wounds and stagnate their aging, but when its true name is called it even decomposes into hundreds of parts and protects them from all interference. It was excavated from Cornwall by the Einzberns, and entrusted to Kiritsugu as a catalyst for summoning King Arthur. It is a Noble Phantasm at the level of magic, that completely shuts out all physical interference, transliners from parallel worlds, and communication from other dimensions (up to the sixth). If Saber secludes herself with this, none will be able to reach her.

Avalon: The Everdistant Utopia Rank: EX Type: Barrier Noble Phantasm Defense target: 1 person The power of the sheath of Excalibur. Expanding the sheath, it shuts out all physical interference by placing the owner in the land of the fairies.

In addition, Arcueid conceptually and physically store the Surface Texture as the planet's memory.

Event Storage # An ability of the True Ancestors who are the planet’s sense of touch. They store everything that was brought up on the surface of the planet, both conceptually and physically. A storage of every creative work on the planet’s surface ——— A confiscation of “Texture.” It is an unusual ability that would be on the level of “Authorities” if one was to speak about Divine Spirits, but it is a function possessed by the planet so rather than a Skill it is a System. The sphere of gravity that appeared under Arc’s feet after she became a Luminous Body has a scale enough to store the Textures of the whole Earth.

In the Tsukihime Remake she was stated to contain an infinite universe.

Spoiler: Retrograde Canal / Celestial Conception

That is to say, the events which are now about to occur: The system which updates the planet's surface. The Luminary's majestic figure vanishes, almost as if the fog of the unknown had let up. "...It's coming." And then; Without realizing―almost as if I knew it was bound to happen―that is what what I mutter. The particles of the Luminary converges onto a two meter diameter big sphere. Even if I cannot comprehend it, the records of the vampire who had until just recently coexisted with me tell me that this is how it is: The time of upheaval has come... The celestial egg... The planet's memories... Micheal, the boy who tried to know everything; Roa, the man who tried to define God's love; define eternity. Though he has already lost his chance, now a fragment of his wish has appeared on the surface of Earth. "Ohh..." Space itself is being overwritten. All of heaven is ablaze, giving out a dazzling light. This is an impossibility. Or at least, to behold this scenery from Earth is an impossibility. The universe is intrinsically dark. Even if stars counting in the infinite let out their light, the density and time of it is insufficient in illuminating the infinite extent that the universe possesses. The universe as seen from earth is but a mere 13.8 billion light-years of information. You cannot illuminate the dark, cold universe with a such a scant light source. However―hypothetically speaking―under the assumption that the expanse of the universe is still meager... Under the assumption that ■■■■■■ exists... The deep crimson cosmos, that which is the newest, most distancing, is emitted. "Ooh..." This is a conceptual universe: Domains which the lifeforms on Earth do not recall; Laws which are yet out of reach from humanity's observations; The cosmic hollow reaching into the furthest depths; infinite yet most minimal of all. Within that torrent, I fall at a speed not found within reality, as the one, sole exception. Contending with the planet's gravity: the first cosmic velocity; Breaking free of the planet's gravity: the second cosmic velocity; And last, ridding itself from even the influence of the sun's gravity: the third cosmic velocity. Multitudes of stars; multitudes of beginnings, pass me by. Events that you would not see even if you expended the entire lifespan of the human species, pass me by. Irrelevant. Uninteresting.

Also, the other planets in the solar system have separate individual wills and concepts that contradicts common sense found on Earth.

Spoiler: Notes.

Just when I was about to leave the city, I got caught by a messenger of the military. Someone must have remembered an old story from 5 years ago and enlisted me in this mission. When I returned to my room to pick up the Black Barrel that I left to rot, the Angel was still there. "Are you going to fight that?" "Looks like it. The Knights are assembling too, and the military's eager to do it. They're aiming to at least change the Cross's course. If that's it, then the possibility isn't zero" "It's impossible. Everyone doesn't understand what an Aristoteles is. That isn't a life form on this planet. There is no, chance of winning." "How could that be? In reality, we have already defeated 3 Aristoteles. If we have more fire power than them, it's not an unstoppable opponent" "I don't know about that. They can't be judged by this planet's common sense. That's why even a concept of death doesn't exist for them. They won't stop until they achieved their objective." "Objective? You guys had such thing?" "Yes. It's not our own objective but we do. They arrived here to fulfill the wish of this planet. ...This planet died by the influence of the life forms that lived on it. The planet itself doesn't have a feeling of grief. Even perishing by the influence of its own life forms is "All right". A planet only carries a will; it carries no meaning. " But there was an exception. The planet is able to forgive it because the life forms follow the same fate as the planet. But the human species were able to live on, even on the dead land. This planet was frightened by the existence that kept on living on top of its death, and cried out for help at its end. Please, wipe out the life forms that are still alive." "...I see. So that's who you guys were" When I muttered that, the Angel said no, as she shook her head. "The only ones who were able to hear the cry of the planet, were also planets. I, no, we were the highest ranking species of those planets who received the will of this planet. For example, The Aristoteles that was called the Heaven's Corpse... what I used to be, was the most superior individual on Venus." "Wha...t?' Without knowing, I lost my breath. Our enemy were species that ruled over the alien branches of another planet, where our common sense doesn't apply. The strongest life form on a planet, was in other words, the planet itself. The human species who survived on this planet, to put it simple, were fighting 8 planets.

So Madoka's attack would only be able to damage the surface without digging into the actual planet.

The Counter Force (the will of the planet + unconscious will of mankind) will also retroactively stop Madoka's attack to make sure that the trajectory of human history continues, either by subtly manipulating events or by sending a Counter Guardian to stop her.
There are countless alternative versions of antagonists who are capable of rewriting/rebooting the entire timeline, but every version of them fails and are stopped.

Major events are also periodically locked-in within the timeline and are protected; such as King Arthur's kingdom falling or the United States being formed; so normally time travelers to the past can only make tiny changes and will fail if they try to change major outcomes.

 

[Leafbladie]

We are mainly shown the Human Order version of the universe which is a dimension that covers the planet. The actual Nasuverse universe doesn't have laws of physics, and contains alien beings who operate on different common sense, such as lacking a concept of death or a concept of being affected by physical attacks.



So Madoka's attack would only be able to damage the surface without digging into the actual planet.

The Counter Force (the will of the planet + unconscious will of mankind) will also retroactively stop Madoka's attack to make sure that the trajectory of human history continues, either by subtly manipulating events or by sending a Counter Guardian to stop her.
There are countless alternative versions of antagonists who are capable of rewriting/rebooting the entire timeline, but every version of them fails and are stopped.

Major events are also periodically locked-in within the timeline and are protected; such as King Arthur's kingdom falling or the United States being formed; so normally time travelers to the past can only make tiny changes and will fail if they try to change major outcomes.

Thanks for the in depth reply. That said, I was curious about the Counter Force/Guardian. The only one I know of is Archer, and he’s not really stacking up to the top tiers from what I’ve heard and seen on/off the site.

Were there any stronger ones? They’d not only need to be stronger but also be able to reach her somehow. Seeing as she’s in a separate plane of existence. I’m guessing her being a concept wouldn’t be an issue at all, because Fate seems to deal a lot with conceptual attacks and such.

 

[Maxeez]

Were there any stronger ones? They’d not only need to be stronger but also be able to reach her somehow. Seeing as she’s in a separate plane of existence.

The counter force whether it is Gaia or Alayashiki will be able to summon Grand Servants like First Hassan to deal with the problem, just like it happened in Babylonia. And those characters do have Low 1-C to 1-C ratings so they are probably able to fight her properly.

 

[Violatas]

Just sic Archetype Earth on her. Literally embodies Gaia's will