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Nasuverse Discussion Board 20

You are still putting what is a guess on a profile generally meant to showcase facts. That's not exactly allowed for other characters, so why do it for Goetia?

Fact is, he has Ten Crowns and his own following description. Anything else is speculation when skill descriptions can vary and there is no point in adding guesses just for the sake of it.
 
Something something Occam's Razor

The skill has the same name as BB's and there is no reason to assume it works any differently so it takes the least assumptions to say it's the same effect
 
Except there is reason to assume it works differently.

BB's rewrites causality to render all damage from earth born life forms against her null.

All Goetia's does is remove class advantage against him. And he only uses it as king of man. If it straight up reduced certain forms of damage to zero it could be argued they are similar enough in effect to give the same description, but it doesn't.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Except there is reason to assume it works differently.
BB's rewrites causality to render all damage from earth born life forms against her null.

All Goetia's does is remove class advantage against him. And he only uses it as king of man.
Click to expand...
So you are gonna be assuming based on gameplay alone that it would work differently? We don't do that here.

Let me remind you that class advantage is a concept that exists only in gameplay, and has no basis in the actual lore of Fate
 
RegisNex1232 said:
You are still putting what is a guess on a profile generally meant to showcase facts. That's not exactly allowed for other characters, so why do it for Goetia?
Fact is, he has Ten Crowns and his own following description. Anything else is speculation when skill descriptions can vary and there is no point in adding guesses just for the sake of it.
Click to expand...
It isn't a guess, per what I said in my previous comment.

As I already said, unless you are going to restrict yourself only to what was said word for word, then there is no reason to assume it is any different. It isn't a guess by any means at all, and things with far less basis have been added to other profiles. Goetia having 10 Crowns is a fact, and so is that he has the same as BB's just like everyone else who has the ability
 
So you are gonna be assuming based on a name alone that it works the same? We don't do that here.

As many skills have lore that backs up their in game effects as skills that don't, so you cannot conclusively say the skill's in game effects aren't actually what it's lore is.

Especially seeing as class advantage is confirmed to be a canon in universe mechanic multiple times in both lore and interludes.
 
Nah, the two Ten Crowns have different and completely unrelated abilities in game, so I don't think it's fair to assume they are one and the same.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
So you are gonna be assuming based on a name alone that it works the same? We don't do that here.
As many skills have lore that backs up their in game effects as skills that don't, so you cannot conclusively say the skill's in game effects aren't actually what it's lore is.

Especially seeing as class advantage is confirmed to be a canon in universe mechanic multiple times in both lore and interludes.
Click to expand...
We actually do, just like every other servant who we give skills due to sharing the skills listed in guides without any additonal elaborations.

Scans of in canon mentions of class advantage? this is the first I have heard of it. And I do not mean "Assassins are often not as good against enemies with prep which casters usually have" or things like that if that is what you are going for. This is the first I have heard about class advantage being a tangible thing, because I have many in universe fate matches to redo if it is.

I can show you numerous examples of the unrelatedness of lore and gameplay with in fate. There is no reason to assume this would be connected
 
Furthermore, the argument that "ten crowns has the same effects in all its other appearances" ignores a key bit of context.

There is only one other person with ten crowns, and the only reason it's at a different rank between her two separate versions is because she is holding its full power back. Of course it has the same effects, it's the same variation of the skill just being held back.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Furthermore, the argument that "ten crowns has the same effects in all its other appearances" ignores a key bit of context.
There is only one other person with ten crowns, and the only reason it's at a different rank between her two separate versions is because she is holding its full power back. Of course it has the same effects, it's the same variation of the skill just being held back.
Click to expand...
Absolutely false. First off, BB (FGO) is, I am told, a different character from the BB is fate extra. But that is beside the point. Kazuradrop and one of the beasts also have 10 crowns, and I recall there being others as well.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Except there is reason to assume it works differently.

BB's rewrites causality to render all damage from earth born life forms against her null.

All Goetia's does is remove class advantage against him. And he only uses it as king of man. If it straight up reduced certain forms of damage to zero it could be argued they are similar enough in effect to give the same description, but it doesn't.
Click to expand...
To be fair King of Humans Goetia is significantly weakened so that could be partly why
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
We actually do, just like every other servant who we give skills due to sharing the skills listed in guides without any additonal elaborations.
Click to expand...
Not on this level. Bigger powers require bigger proofs. A name and "we do this for other characters" isn't nearly enough to give earth born based passive causality hax. Especially seeing as Goetia has shit all to do with the earth mother goddess, which is the origin of BB's ten crowns.

Scans of in canon mentions of class advantage? this is the first I have heard of it. And I do not mean "Assassins are often not as good against enemies with prep which casters usually have" or things like that if that is what you are going for. This is the first I have heard about class advantage being a tangible thing, because I have many in universe fate matches to redo if it is.

I can't get the scans now, but Da Vinci directly explains how class advantage works in one of the earlier singularity cutscenes when by get to a ley line, and all her other similar exposition dumps are serious canon information so there's no reason to assume it's just a tutorial, in Babylonia Caster Gil says he should fight some Assassin class enemies because he's strong against them then gets annoyed when a rider class appears, and I'm pretty sure Emiya's interlude also has class advantage mentioned.

I can show you numerous examples of the unrelatedness of lore and gameplay with in fate. There is no reason to assume this would be connected

And I can show you numerous examples of the relatedness of gameplay and lore. No reason to assume it would be connected? No. There is equally good reason to assume it is connected as to assume it is not.
 
The fact that you can't show evidence so far that Goetia's TC = BB's TC sort of suggests that the 2 aren't the same and so we shouldn't start adding our guesses to profiles.
 
One person if we take it from Fujimaru being sent to purgatory

More people if we consider his ability to affect servants (servants have souls equal in potency to to multiple normal humans)

>planetary if we scale it to Ars Almadel's soul harvest, but I wouldn't.
 
This made me realize how many Fate characters have an ability that makes all damage from a (insert tag) do no damage to them.
 
Just w8 for mats for them. Specificaly Abby and Okitan. Because of Okita alter can kill nonexistent with her NP.
 
Ram said its almost done, what it need is better context about the skills.

Meanwhile Hinako still not out despite the deadline is over, but i'm fine with that
 
@Monarch

I got shit going down today but I'll respond later.

Just to clarify tho, I do not believe his 10 crowns would be passive. Worse versions of 10 crowns we have seen are not passive in nature
 
Monarch Laciel said:
One person if we take it from Fujimaru being sent to purgatory
More people if we consider his ability to affect servants (servants have souls equal in potency to to multiple normal humans)

>planetary if we scale it to Ars Almadel's soul harvest, but I wouldn't.
Click to expand...
Well, there is more reason to take it seriously. Sherlock had to use his ability to make the impossible possible just to somewhat get information around the curse that he had set up, and still couldn't say Goetia's name outright. It also applies across all of time and space as well
 
Is the Alien God an ultimate one from another solar system?

It claims to be from another star and to have come to conquer our star and was able to basically wipe the planet in days, has the ability to rewrite Textures and it is somehow able to create and preserve lostbelts without them being erased.
 
Not so much me cuz I've never read KnK. I talked with Ever and though he DID claim for her for months and did some work on his own draft of her, he never finished for the same reason I said and he actually doesn't mind if you do it.

So yeah if you want, knock yourself out~
 
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