Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[EldemadeDityjon]

I was just saying for lore purposes. I am well aware that the wiki is more complicated than that. As for the time stuff, Kaguya's worlds are considered separate timespaces iirc, Momoshiki's dimensions are considered similar to her's and parallel to Earth's. So that's the logic I used to argue 2C cosmology. Obviously I wouldn't use this argument to powerscale since it is not concrete enough and uses source material that isn't considered canon here.

I'm just clarifying. Also timespaces ≠ Timelines.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Also timespaces ≠ Timelines.

Why not? I guess better question would be why is this relevant?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Why not?

Every pocket dimensions will have its own space and time with unknown size. Unless stated otherwise.
Timespaces are something used to refer pocket dimensions with small or larger size. It doesn't have to be universal timelines.

 

[Kayzz]

We kinda already have some of this. It's just not considered canon on this wiki. For purely lore purposes, you can use the statements of Kaguya creating her own dimensions and Momoshiki stated in the novels to have created his own dimension as proof. The novels even say that the dimensions are similar to Kaguya's which means all of these alternate dimensions might be Low 2C each and all add up to a 2C cosmology. But not for wiki purposes because the movie novel isn't considered canon. The cosmology is still at least 2C overall. Just wouldn't scale to anyone.

I speculate that all present Otsutsuki are Shibai's avatars in some sense judging from Samurai 8, but we'll see.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Every pocket dimensions will have its own space and time with unknown size. Unless stated otherwise.
Timespaces are something used to refer pocket dimensions with small or larger size. It doesn't have to be universal timelines.

Maybe it's been a while since I brushed up on this but, the standards here state:

Characters or objects whose power is uncountably infinitely greater than the prior tiers. That is to say, they can significantly affect, create and/or destroy higher-dimensional structures that exceed lesser objects by an uncountably infinite margin. An example of this being 4-dimensional spacetime continuums of universal size, but can be generalized to any 4-dimensional structure of a similar scope.

This doesn't mention anything about the size of the temporal dimension. In fact a 4D construct is by default uncountably infinite times bigger than an infinite 3D one. And since Momoshiki's dimension is considered a parallel dimension to the Earth's, and Kaguya's dimension which is stated to be similar to Momoshiki's has 4 dimensions. It would be logical to assume that all Otsutsuki dimensions are 4 dimensional constructs that are universal in size (spatially). Again I repeat, this includes non canon information (and is a pretty generous interpretation) so I am not saying this should be accepted, I'm just stating the consistency of my reasoning.

 

[Samlex1234]

I speculate that all present Otsutsuki are Shibai's avatars in some sense judging from Samurai 8, but we'll see.

I don't believe this to be true in the literal sense, we know that other Otsutsuki’s have attained godship. Otsutsuki’s are also immune to omnipotence (Race of the gods). So far we know only an otsutsuki have the capacity to become a god.

 

[Kayzz]

Secondary information
We also know that the Naruto world as we know it was created by a god and other gods have created different worlds with omnipotence.

It's either there is a supreme god above them all or when they ascend, they become one.

There is more evidence of the latter going by the Samurai 8 as the reference, plus Isshiki's statement about becoming "a peerless being".

Shibai was stated to create the present world - Universe, obviously.
The previous universe would likely be destroyed for a new one to take its place.
But that likely may not be true because of Omnipotence's permanence attribute. So, it is probably stored somewhere while a new one takes its place.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Koji calls the “Different Possible Futures”, Timeline Branches that the main timeline can take. Those “Possibilities” aren’t also just possible “Instances” but they also have their own drown out futures as well.

So yes, it is a “Multiverse” going by MWI. The only DIFFERENCE is, Koji also says those other Branches get Erased once the Main timeline selects a branch, but the only thing that does is create a infinite NEW branches the Main Timely can select from. So it’s a cycle of Infinite Creation/Infinite Erasure.

 

[Samlex1234]

It's either there is a supreme god above them all or when they ascend, they become one.

There is more evidence of the latter going by the Samurai 8 as the reference, plus Isshiki's statement about becoming "a peerless being".

Shibai was stated to create the present world - Universe, obviously.
The previous universe would likely be destroyed for a new one to take its place.
But that likely may not be true because of Omnipotence's permanence attribute. So, it is probably stored somewhere while a new one takes its place.

First of all I believe that the otutsuki dimension is in a different Time-space ( This is a personal opinion ) I believe another god that ascended before Shibai created this universe unless it was Isshiki that found the remains of Shibai and not Amado.
If it was Amado then he ascended while he was in the naruto universe thus, he couldn't have created it, however, it could also be that Isshiki brought the remains of Shibai from a different time-space to this Time-space (naruto universe ) he created.
We actually have no concrete evidence that Shibai created the current universe, however, we know that he can create one.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I'm so confused rn.

Koji calls the “Different Possible Futures”, Timeline Branches that the main timeline can take. Those “Possibilities” aren’t also just possible “Instances” but they also have their own drown out futures as well.

Can you tell me which page this is? Also is this the japanese version or the viz version.

So yes, it is a “Multiverse” going by MWI. The only DIFFERENCE is, Koji also says those other Branches get Erased once the Main timeline selects a branch, but the only thing that does is create a infinite NEW branches the Main Timely can select from. So it’s a cycle of Infinite Creation/Infinite Erasure.

This is not MWI tho. The way fate is described in Boruto, it might never be MWI, but it can be a multiverse. I'm still unsure of the continuous destruction of branches stuff.

 

[Samlex1234]

Koji calls the “Different Possible Futures”, Timeline Branches that the main timeline can take. Those “Possibilities” aren’t also just possible “Instances” but they also have their own drown out futures as well.

So yes, it is a “Multiverse” going by MWI. The only DIFFERENCE is, Koji also says those other Branches get Erased once the Main timeline selects a branch, but the only thing that does is create a infinite NEW branches the Main Timely can select from. So it’s a cycle of Infinite Creation/Infinite Erasure.

Show me where it says Timeline branches

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Maybe it's been a while since I brushed up on this but, the standards here state:

This doesn't mention anything about the size of the temporal dimension. In fact a 4D construct is by default uncountably infinite times bigger than an infinite 3D one. And since Momoshiki's dimension is considered a parallel dimension to the Earth's, and Kaguya's dimension which is stated to be similar to Momoshiki's has 4 dimensions. It would be logical to assume that all Otsutsuki dimensions are 4 dimensional constructs that are universal in size (spatially). Again I repeat, this includes non canon information (and is a pretty generous interpretation) so I am not saying this should be accepted, I'm just stating the consistency of my reasoning.

Check this page

Tier Low 2-C

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[HelloThere1089]

Check this page

Tier Low 2-C

vsbattles.fandom.com

This doesn't refute what I stated. A timespace is basically a spacetime. It has a temporal dimension by definition and should be continuous. A temporal dimension contains past, present, and future of that universe. That's it's job.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This doesn't refute what I stated. A timespace is basically a spacetime.

Space time ≠ timeline

It has a temporal dimension by definition and should be continuous. A temporal dimension contains past, present, and future of that universe. That's it's job.

Not inherentedly. Check the page I linked again. You can make a Q & A thread if you seriously think you are right.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Space time ≠ timeline

Spacetime continuum contains a timeline by definition.

Not inherentedly. Check the page I linked again. You can make a Q & A thread if you seriously think you are right.

It's fine if you don't believe me even though it is pretty clear cut from the wikipedia page. Here is a thread you can read:

Tier 2 characters CRT

Summer times is the only good time to be starting mass projects to revise every profile of X tier and what not; second, Sera Ex still had plans to define the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C feats. And while yes, it is true that destroying an entire timeline is the requirement at what a Low...

vsbattles.com

But giving birth to a space-time continuum is clearly Low 2-C.

What exactly do you think a "spacetime continuum" entails, to begin with? That sort of stuff is just self-evident and doesn't need to be explained.

This is a comment by Ultima in reply to a question that is similar to yours. If I'm not wrong this should give you more faith in my argument. For reference the specific comment is:

Tier 2 characters CRT

Summer times is the only good time to be starting mass projects to revise every profile of X tier and what not; second, Sera Ex still had plans to define the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C feats. And while yes, it is true that destroying an entire timeline is the requirement at what a Low...

vsbattles.com

Read the entire conversation and it should clear up what I am saying.

Kaguya created a timespace = spacetime = spacetime continuum. Which means it has a temporal dimension. The replies should prove to you why that inherrently means that a timeline exists. The only requirement here for Low 2C would be to prove the spatial dimension to be infinite. Hope that clears stuff up.

Edit: Btw if you want an explanation from me too then here it is: The existence of a temporal axis means that it will have past, present, and future. That's how a line works regardless of it's length. The temporal axis isn't a point, it's a line that stretches out an unknown amount. The default assumption of a spacetime is that it is continuous.

 

[KingogKings777]

Didn't Kaguya only create the space not the time?

 

[HelloThere1089]

Didn't Kaguya only create the space not the time?

I was under the assumption that it was a timespace. Although I could be wrong.

 

[KingogKings777]

I was under the assumption that it was a timespace. Although I could be wrong.

The raws said a birth of a new space or the destruction of the space iirc.

 

[HelloThere1089]

The raws said a birth of a new space or the destruction of the space iirc.

I saw on the fandom website that the japanese word used was for time-space specifically, but fandom is not an official source. So idk.

 

[KingogKings777]

I saw on the fandom website that the japanese word used was for time-space specifically, but fandom is not an official source. So idk.

Arc said it was space when Ussey Slayer was trying to upgrade it back or something.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Arc said it was space when Ussey Slayer was trying to upgrade it back or something.

Are you talking about the chapter where the fight was happening? I am talking about the chapter from Naruto gaiden. But I never translated the raws (and don't know how) so idk.

 

[KingogKings777]

Are you talking about the chapter where the fight was happening? I am talking about the chapter from Naruto gaiden. But I never translated the raws (and don't know how) so idk.

Yeah when the fight happened. No clue about gaiden.

 

[Samlex1234]

I was under the assumption that it was a timespace. Although I could be wrong.

You are not wrong. We don't have concrete evidence that she created the space time. But we know that with the ETSO she was going to destroy and recreate it.

 

[HelloThere1089]

You are not wrong. We don't have concrete evidence that she created the space time. But we know that with the ETSO she was going to destroy and recreate it.

Yeah. That's essentially the same thing if she was gonna create it again anyways. But too bad no canon material proves that her dimension is spatially infinite. So it's still 4-C over time.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Show me where it says Timeline branches

It’ll be some time. I typed that before work so on my Lunch i’ll continue.

 

[Samlex1234]

The spacetime continuum contains a timeline by definition.

It's fine if you don't believe me even though it is pretty clear cut from the wikipedia page. Here is a thread you can read:

Tier 2 characters CRT

Summer times is the only good time to be starting mass projects to revise every profile of X tier and what not; second, Sera Ex still had plans to define the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C feats. And while yes, it is true that destroying an entire timeline is the requirement at what a Low...

vsbattles.com

This is a comment by Ultima in reply to a question that is similar to yours. If I'm not wrong this should give you more faith in my argument. For reference the specific comment is:

Tier 2 characters CRT

Summer times is the only good time to be starting mass projects to revise every profile of X tier and what not; second, Sera Ex still had plans to define the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C feats. And while yes, it is true that destroying an entire timeline is the requirement at what a Low...

vsbattles.com

Read the entire conversation and it should clear up what I am saying.

Kaguya created a timespace = spacetime = spacetime continuum. Which means it has a temporal dimension. The replies should prove to you why that inherrently means that a timeline exists. The only requirement here for Low 2C would be to prove the spatial dimension to be infinite. Hope that clears stuff up.

Edit: Btw if you want an explanation from me too then here it is: The existence of a temporal axis means that it will have past, present, and future. That's how a line works regardless of it's length. The temporal axis isn't a point, it's a line that stretches out an unknown amount. The default assumption of a spacetime is that it is continuous.

This is quite interesting. Was this thread accepted?

What I read is basically, destroying or creating a Time-space continuum is considered Low 2-C, regardless of how long it existed or its size.
In summary, Low 2-C involves a significant impact on time-space, such as its creation or destruction, and doesn’t need to be infinite in size.
Hope I'm correct?

 

[HelloThere1089]

What I read is basically, destroying or creating a Time-space continuum is considered Low 2-C, regardless of how long it existed or its size.
In summary, Low 2-C involves a significant impact on time-space, such as its creation or destruction, and doesn’t need to be infinite in size.
Hope I'm correct?

No. For a character to be low 2-C it has to either:

1. Create a construct that is infinite in 3 spatial dimensions and contains 1 temporal (regardless of it's duration) dimension.
2. Destroy a construct that is infinite in 3 spatial dimensions and contains 1 temporal (the entire timeline and not just parts of it) dimension.

At least that's how I interpret the current standards and how the mods talk about it.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

No. For a character to be low 2-C it has to either:

1. Create a construct that is infinite in 3 spatial dimensions and contains 1 temporal (regardless of it's duration) dimension.
2. Destroy a construct that is infinite in 3 spatial dimensions and contains 1 temporal (the entire timeline and not just parts of it) dimension.

At least that's how I interpret the current standards and how the mods talk about it.

You're right.
And Kaguya unfortunately does not apply for either because with #1, the ETSB only recreates the spatial dimensions, and we have no evidence pointing towards them being infinite. And with #2, she only destroys the spatial dimensions as per Arc's translation of BZ's statement.
So, just an L on all fronts for Low 2-C ETSB.

 

[HelloThere1089]

You're right.
And Kaguya unfortunately does not apply for either because with #1, the ETSB only recreates the spatial dimensions, and we have no evidence pointing towards them being infinite. And with #2, she only destroys the spatial dimensions as per Arc's translation of BZ's statement.
So, just an L on all fronts for Low 2-C ETSB.

Kaguya is just a walking L ngl. Shame on her for not aiming for perfection. Btw, any evidence that she atleast created her dimensions in the first place?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Kaguya is just a walking L ngl. Shame on her for not aiming for perfection. Btw, any evidence that she atleast created her dimensions in the first place?

Not that I am aware of.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Not that I am aware of.

Non canon novels it is then...

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

I'm so confused rn.

Can you tell me which page this is? Also is this the japanese version or the viz version.

Viz. I was also paraphrasing.

This is not MWI tho. The way fate is described in Boruto, it might never be MWI, but it can be a multiverse. I'm still unsure of the continuous destruction of branches stuff.

On my lunch break, i’ll make a better argument for clarification on what I said.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Spacetime continuum contains a timeline by definition.

It's fine if you don't believe me even though it is pretty clear cut from the wikipedia page. Here is a thread you can read:

Tier 2 characters CRT

Summer times is the only good time to be starting mass projects to revise every profile of X tier and what not; second, Sera Ex still had plans to define the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C feats. And while yes, it is true that destroying an entire timeline is the requirement at what a Low...

vsbattles.com

This is a comment by Ultima in reply to a question that is similar to yours. If I'm not wrong this should give you more faith in my argument. For reference the specific comment is:

Tier 2 characters CRT

Summer times is the only good time to be starting mass projects to revise every profile of X tier and what not; second, Sera Ex still had plans to define the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C feats. And while yes, it is true that destroying an entire timeline is the requirement at what a Low...

vsbattles.com

Read the entire conversation and it should clear up what I am saying.

Kaguya created a timespace = spacetime = spacetime continuum. Which means it has a temporal dimension. The replies should prove to you why that inherrently means that a timeline exists. The only requirement here for Low 2C would be to prove the spatial dimension to be infinite. Hope that clears stuff up.

Edit: Btw if you want an explanation from me too then here it is: The existence of a temporal axis means that it will have past, present, and future. That's how a line works regardless of it's length. The temporal axis isn't a point, it's a line that stretches out an unknown amount. The default assumption of a spacetime is that it is continuous.

It says space time continnum
It's not about me believing something. It's you don't understand difference between space time and space time continnum
Space time ≠ Space time continnum. Show me where in tiering system page claims space time = space time continnum?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Non canon novels it is then...

You're referring to the Boruto Movie Novelization, right? I don't remember there being any statement about her creating her dimensions in the novel, but I can see how you can inductively reach that conclusion.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Viz. I was also paraphrasing.

On my lunch break, i’ll make a better argument for clarification on what I said.

No rush at all.

You're referring to the Boruto Movie Novelization, right? I don't remember there being any statement about her creating her dimensions in the novel, but I can see how you can inductively reach that conclusion.

Yes inductively. There are no direct statements.

 

[Samlex1234]

You're right.
And Kaguya unfortunately does not apply for either because with #1, the ETSB only recreates the spatial dimensions, and we have no evidence pointing towards them being infinite. And with #2, she only destroys the spatial dimensions as per Arc's translation of BZ's statement.
So, just an L on all fronts for Low 2-C ETSB.

Im not going to argue for low 2c kaguya I don't have the energy, does anybody have the Japanese kanji for that specific part.

This is the official translation that I'm aware off.

 

[Samlex1234]

No. For a character to be low 2-C it has to either:

1. Create a construct that is infinite in 3 spatial dimensions and contains 1 temporal (regardless of it's duration) dimension.
2. Destroy a construct that is infinite in 3 spatial dimensions and contains 1 temporal (the entire timeline and not just parts of it) dimension.

At least that's how I interpret the current standards and how the mods talk about it.

Thanks for the information.

 

[HelloThere1089]

It says space time continnum
It's not about me believing something. It's you don't understand difference between space time and space time continnum
Space time ≠ Space time continnum. Show me where in tiering system page claims space time = space time continnum?

Brother....Spacetime can either be discreet or continuous. There are no other options. The default assumption for a time axis will always be a continuum. The wikipedia page that is linked to the page that you mentioned also states that spacetime are also known as spacetime continuums.

Here is the page you linked:

Tier Low 2-C

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here is the link on that page used as reference for "space time continuum"

Spacetime - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Learn the difference between discreet and continuous. Also read the links that you send me. And read the pages that I linked. The thread also mentions why the default assumption is continuum.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Im not going to argue for low 2c kaguya I don't have the energy, does anybody have the Japanese kanji for that specific part.

This is the official translation that I'm aware off.

Yes, that is the official Viz translation.
Viz is notorious for getting things wrong all the time, they are far from 100% accurate. We had Arc7Kuroi, a trusted member, independtly translate those scans. I'm sure @KingogKings777 can share a link to the thread where all of this was discussed. I honestly don't remember what the thread was called.

 

[Samlex1234]

Yes, that is the official Viz translation.
Viz is notorious for getting things wrong all the time, they are far from 100% accurate. We had Arc7Kuroi, a trusted member, independtly translate those scans. I'm sure @KingogKings777 can share a link to the thread where all of this was discussed. I honestly don't remember what the thread was called.

Thanks. I would appreciate if anyone can find the thread and send.