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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

karo_senpaii said:
So Kaguya scales to 88 exatons but I feel she should scale to juubi jin hag. Ghost Hagoromo (who is aware of his juubi self) still considers Kaguya stronger than any other person plus she also fused with the 10tails and considering sasuke said her chakra was so much greater than Madara it checks out. feat wise also Sasuke could not put a scratch on her yet he could fight and split Madara in two. So, like Kaguya should be 177exatons Ish and Naruto should scale, Sasuke would not scale until final valley and that's with Susanoo even. Dude could not leave a dent on Naruto with a chidori to the neck
Click to expand...
Susanoo Sasuke also wasn't able to meaningfully do much to Kaguya either, I honestly feel like Kaguya might've been bagging slightly against Naruto these days

(also Naruto blocked the Chidori with his arm)
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Susanoo Sasuke also wasn't able to meaningfully do much to Kaguya either, I honestly feel like Kaguya might've been bagging slightly against Naruto these days

(also Naruto blocked the Chidori with his arm)
Click to expand...
that's what I'm saying. naruto could match her blow for blow for a while, cut her arm off (before you say she was getting low on chakra she destroyed sasuke and his susanoo after this) It is clear naruto and sasuke were ahead. sasuke only caught up a bit in final valley and even then
 
karo_senpaii said:
that's what I'm saying. naruto could match her blow for blow for a while, cut her arm off (before you say she was getting low on chakra she destroyed sasuke and his susanoo after this) It is clear naruto and sasuke were ahead. sasuke only caught up a bit in final valley and even then
Click to expand...
MinatoSparkle said:
I honestly feel like Kaguya might've been bagging slightly against Naruto these days
Click to expand...
 
@Samlex1234 @HelloThere1089

Part 1: So, to start, I want to draw attention to the verbiage. The first time Koji refers to “What he saw”, he calls them “Future Realities”. Later, he also characterizes them as “Future Possibilities”, but to me this is striking and shows there is “substance” here imo. In my reading of the Context presented, Koji views these sights as “Possible Future Realities”, which is more substantial than just simple “Possibilities”.

That may sound like semantics but that’s just my view. I support it in the next part.

Part 2: Going further about the “Future Possible Realities”, Koji states: “This may sound obvious to you, but our future isn’t simply one straight path. Many narratives get snuffed out based on which branch of each multi-forked crossroad is taken.”

I bolded the most important parts of his statement here. While Koji doesn’t say these are “Branched Timelines” verbatim, what he said describes “Branched Timelines” precisely. He then goes on to explain that these “Future Possible Realities” aren’t just instances but have drown out futures themselves.

Taking in the context and implications, these “Future Possible Realities” are physically branched off the main timeline, existing simultaneously UNTIL a path is selected, wherein the other paths are then “Snuffed Out” (Which I take to mean erased).

Part 3: Minus the Erasure of those separate timelines, this falls 99% into the MWI as explained by Nat Geo (Scroll down to, “What are some other ideas?”), where I get my understanding of it from.

Thus, the Naruto Verse is a Multiverse, but it is in a constant cycle of Infinite Creation & Infinite Erasure.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Except I'm not trying to upgrade anything. The conversation started with me giving options to someone on how they can argue the cosmology being 2C off site because the novels that are needed for that argument are non canon. How ever I never said Kaguya's dimensions would be low 2C on this wiki. That's because Kaguya's dimensions are considered pocket dimensions here, not because the time isn't continuous (it is. It literally wouldn't make sense powerscaling wise otherwise.), but because the spatial aspect of the dimensions aren't infinite here. Not because the word continuum wasn't used. If you understood what that meant, you wouldn't have brought it up.
Click to expand...
I was arguing based on wiki tiering system. If you are trying to say Kaguya dimensions are Low 2-C by whatever your own tier system sure.
HelloThere1089 said:
Lastly, it's not just wikipedia, it's also just Physics (just read up on General Relativity) and websites like Britannica. Spacetime and spacetime continuum (usually) are the same thing.
Click to expand...
Not in this wiki without having some context to back it up
HelloThere1089 said:
But let's just agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
Sure
 
karo_senpaii said:
If the space time contained multiple galaxies and above in it well yeah it would have been low2c
Click to expand...
Check the Staff thread where Pein updated the tiering system to currently what it is. Previous it was something like that but currently you need to prove existence of temporal dimensions/timelines to scale the dimensions to Low 2-C.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
I was arguing based on wiki tiering system. If you are trying to say Kaguya dimensions are Low 2-C by whatever your own tier system sure.
Click to expand...
The tier system is same. The only thing personal here is the canonicity of novels.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Not in this wiki without having some context to back it up
Click to expand...
This is from the wiki btw
The Space-time continuum refers to the concept of physics that refers to all the time of a certain space, i.e. the past, present and future of a space . It posits that space and time are not separate and distinct entities, but rather they are interwoven and form a single fabric of reality, called spacetime. In this view, events in the universe are not just located in space, they also occur at a specific point in time. Additionally, the presence of matter and energy can cause curvatures in spacetime, leading to the phenomenon of gravity.
Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

Universe

The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Here space-time and space-time continuum are used interchangeably. Can you provide a single wiki rule that states they are not the same by default? I know I said agree to disagree but I'm curious. Also if it's not too much trouble, send me the thread by Pein where it is established that Space-time is not by default Space-time continuum.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Looks like it, yeah. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Do we note abilities type activation stuff like for TSB and ETSB for it space destorying thing? Cause I don't believe it's passive instead, it has to be activated. Cause we see it destroy space and create a vacuum when Juubito makes it go boom and flashes white before hand, but when Kaguya's crumbles away there is no vacuum at all. So space wasn't destroyed in that one.
 
KingogKings777 said:
Do we note abilities type activation stuff like for TSB and ETSB for it space destorying thing? Cause I don't believe it's passive instead, it has to be activated. Cause we see it destroy space and create a vacuum when Juubito makes it go boom and flashes white before hand, but when Kaguya's crumbles away there is no vacuum at all. So space wasn't destroyed in that one.
Click to expand...
Ummm, I think those are two entirely different situations.
So what you need to understand is that the TSB affects stuff that comes into contact with its outer surface area.

In the Obito example, the TSB starts off in its normal state/size, then expands greatly, leaving behind a vacuum when it returns to its normal size.

The ETSB pretty much started off in its gargantuan state, it didn't have time to expand meaningfully before it crumbled. And obviously the space left behind by it wouldn't be erased given that it was occupied by the physical ball itself.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
@Samlex1234 @HelloThere1089

Part 1: So, to start, I want to draw attention to the verbiage. The first time Koji refers to “What he saw”, he calls them “Future Realities”. Later, he also characterizes them as “Future Possibilities”, but to me this is striking and shows there is “substance” here imo. In my reading of the Context presented, Koji views these sights as “Possible Future Realities”, which is more substantial than just simple “Possibilities”.

That may sound like semantics but that’s just my view. I support it in the next part.

Part 2: Going further about the “Future Possible Realities”, Koji states: “This may sound obvious to you, but our future isn’t simply one straight path. Many narratives get snuffed out based on which branch of each multi-forked crossroad is taken.”

I bolded the most important parts of his statement here. While Koji doesn’t say these are “Branched Timelines” verbatim, what he said describes “Branched Timelines” precisely. He then goes on to explain that these “Future Possible Realities” aren’t just instances but have drown out futures themselves.

Taking in the context and implications, these “Future Possible Realities” are physically branched off the main timeline, existing simultaneously UNTIL a path is selected, wherein the other paths are then “Snuffed Out” (Which I take to mean erased).

Part 3: Minus the Erasure of those separate timelines, this falls 99% into the MWI as explained by Nat Geo (Scroll down to, “What are some other ideas?”), where I get my understanding of it from.

Thus, the Naruto Verse is a Multiverse, but it is in a constant cycle of Infinite Creation & Infinite Erasure.
Click to expand...
Interesting way of view it. I think we can agree to disagree.
 
U
Arc7Kuroi said:
Yeah Boruto pm confirmed that the Uzuhiko vs Code was a nerfed/held back version when he says the one against Hidari is the maximum output version. So uh, I’m gonna have to roll back my 5-B upgrades. It’s going to prolly just Boruto being 5-B with Uzuhiko until someone tanks the maximum output Uzuhiko 😔 and all other 5-Bs will go to Low 5-Bs
Click to expand...
5B is not the maximum output for Uzuhiko. It says verbatim “ Rasengan that utilizes not only “one's own chakra”, but also the planet's rotation and orbit, plus the corresponding centrifugal and other forces” of course the one hidari received is not the maximum output. He can even include other forces we are not aware of, maybe the ( GBE of the solar system, maybe the energy from the dark matter) who knows? The Uzuhiko is limitless.

Energy sources in uzuhiko
1. Boruto’s chakra
2. Rotation and orbit
3. Plus the Corresponding centrifugal
4. Other forces.

First of all Uzuhiko is at least 5b that should be the rating. Second code literally tanked the 5b part
How do I know


It says the power rushing through the body would never stop until the planet stops.
 
Last edited:
HelloThere1089 said:
The tier system is same. The only thing personal here is the canonicity of novels.

This is from the wiki btw

vsbattles.fandom.com

Universe

The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Here space-time and space-time continuum are used interchangeably. Can you provide a single wiki rule that states they are not the same by default? I know I said agree to disagree but I'm curious. Also if it's not too much trouble, send me the thread by Pein where it is established that Space-time is not by default Space-time continuum.
Click to expand...
We are talking about Low 2-C
The same link you sent states these.

Guidelines​

  • When is the destruction or creation of a universe or timeline ranked as low 2-C?
In accordance with the established Tiering System, an event that results in the destruction or creation of a universe or timeline is ranked as Low 2-C (Universe level+). This designation requires that the affected area encompasses a substantial four-dimensional space, exhibits qualitative superiority over three-dimensional spaces, or comprises the entire space-time continuum. To meet these criteria, the entire timeline must be destroyed or created, taking into account all moments in time.

It is essential to note that only direct destruction or creation is considered qualifying for this ranking, and the mere disappearance of a universe as a result of a causality paradox following its destruction at the beginning of time would only be ranked as 3-A (Universe level). Further information regarding the tiering of creating the Big Bang can be found here, and it is advised to consider additional factors when evaluating creation feats.
Click to expand...

Qualifications​

In order for something to qualify as a proper space-time continuum in regard to some feat usually one of two following two criteria should be met:

  1. It is explicitly stated to be a "Space-time continuum" or something equivalent.
  2. It fulfills the standards for being a universe-sized realm (see the first section of this page) and all of its time is also involved in its feat. I.e. the structure involved in the feat is the timeline of an entire universe.
When considering "dimensions" or "universes", one should keep in mind that time travel should not be possible between universes which we factually know are not branching timelines off each other. If this happens it could be used to show that they are actually part of the same universe.
Click to expand...

Also same link also states this about pocket dimensions with different time flow.
It should be noted that variations in the flow of time, such as faster or slower rates, do not necessarily indicate the existence of separate universes or space-time continuums. This phenomenon can occur within a single universe or pocket dimension, and therefore does not serve as sufficient evidence for the existence of multiple universes or space-time continuums.
Click to expand...
 
Samlex1234 said:
U

5B is not the maximum output for Uzuhiko. It says verbatim “ Rasengan that utilizes not only “one's own chakra”, but also the planet's rotation and orbit, plus the corresponding centrifugal and other forces” of course the one hidari received is not the maximum output. He can even include other forces we are not aware of, maybe the ( GBE of the solar system, maybe the energy from the dark matter) who knows? The Uzuhiko is limitless.

First of all Uzuhiko is at least 5b that should be the rating. Second code literally tanked the 5b part
How do I know
Click to expand...

Idk make a thread about it or sumn. Idrc to debate about Uzuhiko in general discussion atm.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
The tier system is same. The only thing personal here is the canonicity of novels.

This is from the wiki btw

vsbattles.fandom.com

Universe

The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Here space-time and space-time continuum are used interchangeably. Can you provide a single wiki rule that states they are not the same by default? I know I said agree to disagree but I'm curious. Also if it's not too much trouble, send me the thread by Pein where it is established that Space-time is not by default Space-time continuum.
Click to expand...

I think the continuum exists to describe that time for a universe-sized space is infinitely changing.

Creating a dimension itself is also not evidence that it experiences a time differential. It could just be a static 3d layer that experiences no change in time.

However, Kaguya's dimensions have been proven to experience a change in time/events since there's an active day-and-night cycle. Therefore, it is indeed a time-space.

There's no proof yet that her dimension has time (event changes) that go infinitely into the future which makes it a continuum. Neither is there proof that it is universe-sized (Though I don't think this matters as long as time-differential is infinite).

However, that confirmation isn't much of a big deal. It just needs to be described in canon as a parallel universe that is similar to the Naruto main one. That's all.
 
Last edited:
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Ummm, I think those are two entirely different situations.
So what you need to understand is that the TSB affects stuff that comes into contact with its outer surface area.

In the Obito example, the TSB starts off in its normal state/size, then expands greatly, leaving behind a vacuum when it returns to its normal size.

The ETSB pretty much started off in its gargantuan state, it didn't have time to expand meaningfully before it crumbled. And obviously the space left behind by it wouldn't be erased given that it was occupied by the physical ball itself.
Click to expand...
Question🙏Does kaguya now scale to the ETSO or no?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
We are talking about Low 2-C
The same link you sent states these.



Also same link also states this about pocket dimensions with different time flow.
Click to expand...
None of the links ever make a distinction between a Spacetime and a Spacetime continuum. The rest of the stuff is irrelevant since I never disagreed.
 
Kayzz said:
I think the continuum exists to describe that time for a universe-sized space is infinitely changing.

Creating a dimension itself is also not evidence that it experiences a time differential. It could just be a static 3d layer that experiences no change in time.

However, Kaguya's dimensions have been proven to experience a change in time/events since there's an active day-and-night cycle. Therefore, it is indeed a time-space.

There's no proof yet that her dimension has time (event changes) that go infinitely into the future which makes it a continuum. Neither is there proof that it is universe-sized (Though I don't think this matters as long as time-differential is infinite).

However, that confirmation isn't much of a big deal. It just needs to be described in canon as a parallel universe that is similar to the Naruto main one. That's all.
Click to expand...
Brother Spacetime and Spacetime continuum are the same thing. Continuum means that the entire thing has no gaps in space or time. This should be the default assumption for any spacetime the same way we by default assume every normal planet has it's core and is not hollow. I have never encountered a distinction between Spacetime and Spacetime continuum in physics so far. Both are used to describe the same thing. Even the link I provided does the same exact thing. There is absolutely no requirement for a stated infinitely stretching time axis for it to be a continuum.
 
Last edited:
OneBleachHurricane said:
Why don't you check the profile?
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. I found the below,
Are these the only reasons?
The attempts to make Kaguya scale to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball were rejected many times before. The primary reason is because this attack required an amount of chakra far greater than her own chakra, and scaling her ordinary stats to it is inconsistent with her performance against Naruto and Sasuke who only possess half of Hagoromo's chakra each.
 
You are an interesting guy aren't you?, Bringing up my past is irrelevant, as my current question is about the specific issue at hand. 3 years ago is not now stop living in 2021. By the way never said I was going to create a CRT I asked a simple question.
 
Last edited:
Samlex1234 said:
You are an interesting guy aren't you?, Bringing up my past is irrelevant, as my current question is about the specific issue at hand. 3 years ago is not now stop living in 2021. By the way never said I was going to create a CRT I asked a simple question.
Click to expand...
Samlex1234 said:
Thanks for that. I found the below,
Are these the only reasons?
The attempts to make Kaguya scale to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball were rejected many times before. The primary reason is because this attack required an amount of chakra far greater than her own chakra, and scaling her ordinary stats to it is inconsistent with her performance against Naruto and Sasuke who only possess half of Hagoromo's chakra each.
Click to expand...
your question has been answered right on the profile although I think the latter part "naruto and sasuke who only possess half of hagoromo's chakra each" is dumb and should be removed
 
What are all the statements for EMS Madara>Edo Madara? Is it just regaining past strength and the DB saying his original strength flooded his body?
 
karo_senpaii said:
your question has been answered right on the profile although I think the latter part "naruto and sasuke who only possess half of hagoromo's chakra each" is dumb and should be removed
Click to expand...
Im a bit confused.
The whole reason for the note is shaky
Lemme explain

Basically Kaguya does not scale to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball because


1. The attack required a significantly higher amount of chakra than she possessed naturally.

2. Scaling her ordinary stats to match this attack is inconsistent with her performance against Naruto and Sasuke, who each have only half of Hagoromo’s chakra.

However:

1. The chakra she received from the Infinite Tsukuyomi did exponentially increase her ordinary stats, as noted by vs Battle Wiki. “Mother just gained more power, both her individual stats might and speed are exponentially greater now


2. Kaguya with Shinobi chakra is substantially more powerful than Sasuke and Naruto. They required Kakashi, who was enhanced with chakra physically and had hax. That Kakashi is stronger than both Naruto and Sasuke and they needed him to seal her, mostly his hax. Naruto and sasuke could not even do anything except seal her.

@UchihaSlayer96
Please help here when you have the time🙏 I just need some clarification.
 
Samlex1234 said:
Im a bit confused.
The whole reason for the note is shaky
Lemme explain

Basically Kaguya does not scale to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball because


1. The attack required a significantly higher amount of chakra than she possessed naturally.

2. Scaling her ordinary stats to match this attack is inconsistent with her performance against Naruto and Sasuke, who each have only half of Hagoromo’s chakra.

However:

1. The chakra she received from the Infinite Tsukuyomi did exponentially increase her ordinary stats, as noted by vs Battle Wiki. “Mother just gained more power, both her individual stats might and speed are exponentially greater now


2. Kaguya with Shinobi chakra is substantially more powerful than Sasuke and Naruto. They required Kakashi, who was enhanced with chakra physically and had hax. That Kakashi is stronger than both Naruto and Sasuke and they needed him to seal her, mostly his hax. Naruto and sasuke could not even do anything except seal her.

@UchihaSlayer96
Please help here when you have the time🙏 I just need some clarification.
Click to expand...

First of all, forget the no 2 Coz I also think it makes no sense. Naruto was already a low tier six path level character (juubito). fuse that with half of hagoromo's chakra and add in pieces of 8 tailed beast chakra and you have a brand new power than you can't just limit to "half of hag's power".
Now for the first reasoning I get what you mean but it seems you don't fully understand the profile. Kaguya does scale to the ETSO just that the version that scales to it is just the "powered by IT" version and no one else not even her normal self scales.
Let me explain further, the destruction of the dimension was going to be done through EE and on this wiki any EE below tier 2 does not count towards ap (although I remember a staff thread a while back trying to change this but I don't know if it passed) so all we are left with is the creation of a new space part which we don't have a time frame asides the fact we know she must have created it by the time momoshiki and kinshiki came so a 17yr time frame was used to find what she would be outputting per second so it can scale to ap. This is why her profile says "5B(output per second) 4C overtime(output over 17yrs)
 
karo_senpaii said:
First of all, forget the no 2 Coz I also think it makes no sense. Naruto was already a low tier six path level character (juubito). fuse that with half of hagoromo's chakra and add in pieces of 8 tailed beast chakra and you have a brand new power than you can't just limit to "half of hag's power".
Now for the first reasoning I get what you mean but it seems you don't fully understand the profile. Kaguya does scale to the ETSO just that the version that scales to it is just the "powered by IT" version and no one else not even her normal self scales.
Let me explain further, the destruction of the dimension was going to be done through EE and on this wiki any EE below tier 2 does not count towards ap (although I remember a staff thread a while back trying to change this but I don't know if it passed) so all we are left with is the creation of a new space part which we don't have a time frame asides the fact we know she must have created it by the time momoshiki and kinshiki came so a 17yr time frame was used to find what she would be outputting per second so it can scale to ap. This is why her profile says "5B(output per second) 4C overtime(output over 17yrs)
Click to expand...
Also the UES removal.
 
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