Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[OneBleachHurricane]

OBH FRA

 

[HelloThere1089]

I have read the new chapter a couple of times now, and I can safely say I was right.

Ngl I have a good gut feeling about this chapter. Tho I know some people don't like flashbacks or dialogue heavy chapters.

I can't help but think that Prescience kinda guarantees that KK is gonna die EOS. Or at least lose his powers somehow. Also, as much as I like Boruto, him stating that killing Kawaki just isn't an option for him is pretty naive. But I guess it is in character. And KK just staring at Boruto when he said that makes me think he can't see a future where the planet is saved without killing Kawaki (or maybe Kawaki sacrifices himself or sumn). Obviously they can pull some fate altering BS at the end. But that's how it seemed to me.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I have read the new chapter a couple of times now, and I can safely say I was right.

I can't help but think that Prescience kinda guarantees that KK is gonna die EOS. Or at least lose his powers somehow. Also, as much as I like Boruto, him stating that killing Kawaki just isn't an option for him is pretty naive. But I guess it is in character. And KK just staring at Boruto when he said that makes me think he can't see a future where the planet is saved without killing Kawaki (or maybe Kawaki sacrifices himself or sumn). Obviously they can pull some fate altering BS at the end. But that's how it seemed to me.

Yeah, to me that look he gave Boruto totally read as "Yeah, sure, buddy. Whatever you say..."

 

[HelloThere1089]

Yeah, to me that look he gave Boruto totally read as "Yeah, sure, buddy. Whatever you say..."

There is 100% a caveat there. I mean power of friendship trumps all. But I can see a plot twist happening that involves Kawaki's mortality.

 

[HelloThere1089]

So I see some people speculating that Kakashi might show up as a Shinju soon. Basically because Ikemoto said something about Kakashi being important in the future. Thoughts? Is it likely?

 

[SlendVeny]

So I see some people speculating that Kakashi might show up as a Shinju soon. Basically because Ikemoto said something about Kakashi being important in the future. Thoughts? Is it likely?

Might Guy Shinju targeting Kakashi, perhap?

 

[SlendVeny]

Might Guy Shinju targeting Kakashi, perhap?

Just remembered Hidari showing us that Shinju get the powers of their host, nevermind.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Just remembered Hidari showing us that Shinju get the powers of their host, nevermind.

Hidari also showed that their host's disabilities don't get transferred so a Might Guy shinju is possible.

 

[SlendVeny]

Hidari also showed that their host's disabilities don't get transferred so a Might Guy shinju is possible.

EXACTLY. Imagine, if you will, a Shinju with the 8 gates. A Shinju, a creature that can easily regenerate from fragments of flesh and come back from DEATH.

 

[HelloThere1089]

EXACTLY. Imagine, if you will, a Shinju with the 8 gates. A Shinju, a creature that can easily regenerate from fragments of flesh and come back from DEATH.

So like a few minutes of 8 gates rampage and then dip to the Shinju tree to heal themselves. Rinse and repeat?

 

[Nierre]

fanfic ahh

 

[HelloThere1089]

So an off topic question. Sumn sumn chapter 13, sumn sumn timeslip arc. Go!

 

[Nierre]

wdym

 

[Samlex1234]

Ok on a serious note, do we now agree that the verse is around multiversal level cosmology-wise?

Based on the information we have now, I do not believe we have infinite timelines that branch into different universes, but infinite possible futures within a single universe. You might be able to make an argument for a 2C cosmology with other evidence but not this.

 

[Tdjwo]

Based on the information we have now, I do not believe we have infinite timelines that branch into different universes, but infinite possible futures within a single universe. You might be able to make an argument for a 2C cosmology with other evidence but not this.

Beo what? How can there be infinite possibilities within a single universe? Unless the universe is multiverse-sized? Like some Fate series type shit.

 

[Samlex1234]

Beo what? How can there be infinite possibilities within a single universe? Unless the universe is multiverse-sized? Like some Fate series type shit.

The best way I can explain is this, Think about it this way. Create a future for yourself in your mind envision that you for instance turn off the light in your room in 10 seconds, then create another future where you don't, you can with your mind see two futures but one will manifest. Another example let's make it many, basically envision different future possibilities put a 10-second timespan on it and do one. ( You can see the future you create and physically manifest it however don't forget you have physical limitations and weaknesses, you can't do everything lol). Koji prescience is way better than this tho he sees beyond the future he creates and sees infinite possible future in the same universe.

 

[HelloThere1089]

You don't need a multiverse sized construct to just contain infinite possible outcomes if these are not actual physical universes themselves.

 

[Tdjwo]

The best way I can explain is this, Think about it this way. Create a future for yourself in your mind envision that you for instance turn off the light in your room in 10 seconds, then create another future where you don't, you can with your mind see two futures but one will manifest. Another example let's make it many, basically envision different future possibilities put a 10-second timespan on it and do one. ( You can see the future you create and physically manifest it however don't forget you have physical limitations and weaknesses, you can't do everything lol). Koji prescience is way better than this tho he sees beyond the future he creates and sees infinite possible future in the same universe.

Yeah except Koji never created any of these future possibilities. He only sees them. Meanwhile, with your example, I can simply choose to put on the light or not. And there can't be infinite possibilities within a universe. Each timeline should be in its own universe. Like let's say in one of the infinite timelines and future possibilities, the earth gets destroyed. There's only one earth. If in another timeline, the earth survives, and all these are happening within the same universe (according to you), then how is that possible? The only explanation is the infinite possibilities/timelines are infinite universes contained in a bigger structure.

 

[Tdjwo]

You don't need a multiverse sized construct to just contain infinite possible outcomes if these are not actual physical universes themselves.

But they are timelines tho.

 

[Samlex1234]

Yeah except Koji never created any of these future possibilities. He only sees them. Meanwhile, with your example, I can simply choose to put on the light or not. And there can't be infinite possibilities within a universe. Each timeline should be in its own universe. Like let's say in one of the infinite timelines and future possibilities, the earth gets destroyed. There's only one earth. If in another timeline, the earth survives, and all these are happening within the same universe (according to you), then how is that possible? The only explanation is the infinite possibilities/timelines are infinite universes contained in a bigger structure.

Read the chapter closely Again and reply back. You would understand what im saying, every event koji saw happened in a possible future and not a different timeline.
Read below

 

[Sasukesama0492]

But they are timelines tho.

No

 

[HelloThere1089]

But they are timelines tho.

No. They are only stated to be possibilities. KK even says that these possibilities get "snuffed out" after each decision. That doesn't happen in a multiverse. Universes don't just get destroyed because you make a decision. Don't get me wrong, it could still be a multiverse if they decide to tweak the language. But based on the given info, a single universe with multiple possibilities is more likely/safer interpretation.

 

[Sasukesama0492]

Kaguya in Naruto has L2C

We will talk about the feat of Bochou Godoudama Statement : "They claim it is still growing" => After some time, it will erasure existence the entire space-time (Kaguya's ability to EE time-space has been officially documented for a long time, so I won't discuss that further. Instead, I will...

vsbattles.com

 

[karo_senpaii]

It’s always the random goons who don’t know Japanese that will assert claims about the language. Shibai is going to be 4-C and he ain’t going to have HDE for now. Keep coping otherwise

If this is the case I feel like he should not have a post ascension key for now

 

[Kayzz]

Based on the information we have now, I do not believe we have infinite timelines that branch into different universes, but infinite possible futures within a single universe. You might be able to make an argument for a 2C cosmology with other evidence but not this.

What if it's confirmed that other Otsutsukis created their separate universes, all within Shibai's universe?

 

[HelloThere1089]

What if it's confirmed that other Otsutsukis created their separate universes, all within Shibai's universe?

We kinda already have some of this. It's just not considered canon on this wiki. For purely lore purposes, you can use the statements of Kaguya creating her own dimensions and Momoshiki stated in the novels to have created his own dimension as proof. The novels even say that the dimensions are similar to Kaguya's which means all of these alternate dimensions might be Low 2C each and all add up to a 2C cosmology. But not for wiki purposes because the movie novel isn't considered canon. The cosmology is still at least 2C overall. Just wouldn't scale to anyone.

 

[Samlex1234]

We kinda already have some of this. It's just not considered canon on this wiki. For purely lore purposes, you can use the statements of Kaguya creating her dimensions and Momoshiki stating in the novels to have created his dimension as proof. The novels even say that the dimensions are similar to Kaguya's which means all of these alternate dimensions might be Low 2C each and all add up to a 2C cosmology. But not for Wiki purposes because the movie novel isn't considered canon. The cosmology is still at least 2C overall. Just wouldn't scale to anyone.

We have different dimensions at least in the Naruto cosmology, ishiki dimension, Kaguya dimensions, and Momoshiki dimension what we know is at least these dimensions are star level based on this wiki ( I can argue otherwise you don't need the novel).

Secondary information
We also know that the Naruto world as we know it was created by a god and other gods have created different worlds with omnipotence.

 

[HelloThere1089]

We have different dimensions at least in the Naruto cosmology, ishiki dimension, Kaguya dimensions, and Momoshiki dimension what we know is at least these dimensions are star level based on this wiki ( I can argue otherwise you don't need the novel).

Secondary information
We also know that the Naruto world as we know it was created by a god and other gods have created different worlds with omnipotence.

Well Momoshiki's and Isshiki's dimensions might be universal without using novels. It's just two things that the novel is required for: To prove who created Momoshiki's dimension, and to prove Kaguya's dimensions are similar to Momoshiki's and might therefore be universal in size. But it's not concrete either way. If you've got better arguments without using novels then I'm all eyes.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

We kinda already have some of this. It's just not considered canon on this wiki. For purely lore purposes, you can use the statements of Kaguya creating her own dimensions and Momoshiki stated in the novels to have created his own dimension as proof. The novels even say that the dimensions are similar to Kaguya's which means all of these alternate dimensions might be Low 2C each and all add up to a 2C cosmology. But not for wiki purposes because the movie novel isn't considered canon. The cosmology is still at least 2C overall. Just wouldn't scale to anyone.

Just creating the universes is 3-A at best. You need to prove those universes has a timeline of its (past, present and future) in it to say it's Low 2-C per current tiering system.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Just creating the universes is 3-A at best. You need to prove those universes has a timeline of its (past, present and future) in it to say it's Low 2-C per current tiering system.

I was just saying for lore purposes. I am well aware that the wiki is more complicated than that. As for the time stuff, Kaguya's worlds are considered separate timespaces iirc, Momoshiki's dimensions are considered similar to her's and parallel to Earth's (which is also considered Low 2C). So that's the logic I used to argue 2C cosmology. Obviously I wouldn't use this argument to powerscale since it is not concrete enough and uses source material that isn't considered canon here.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I was just saying for lore purposes. I am well aware that the wiki is more complicated than that. As for the time stuff, Kaguya's worlds are considered separate timespaces iirc, Momoshiki's dimensions are considered similar to her's and parallel to Earth's. So that's the logic I used to argue 2C cosmology. Obviously I wouldn't use this argument to powerscale since it is not concrete enough and uses source material that isn't considered canon here.

I'm just clarifying. Also timespaces ≠ Timelines.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Also timespaces ≠ Timelines.

Why not? I guess better question would be why is this relevant?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Why not?

Every pocket dimensions will have its own space and time with unknown size. Unless stated otherwise.
Timespaces are something used to refer pocket dimensions with small or larger size. It doesn't have to be universal timelines.

 

[Kayzz]

We kinda already have some of this. It's just not considered canon on this wiki. For purely lore purposes, you can use the statements of Kaguya creating her own dimensions and Momoshiki stated in the novels to have created his own dimension as proof. The novels even say that the dimensions are similar to Kaguya's which means all of these alternate dimensions might be Low 2C each and all add up to a 2C cosmology. But not for wiki purposes because the movie novel isn't considered canon. The cosmology is still at least 2C overall. Just wouldn't scale to anyone.

I speculate that all present Otsutsuki are Shibai's avatars in some sense judging from Samurai 8, but we'll see.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Every pocket dimensions will have its own space and time with unknown size. Unless stated otherwise.
Timespaces are something used to refer pocket dimensions with small or larger size. It doesn't have to be universal timelines.

Maybe it's been a while since I brushed up on this but, the standards here state:

Characters or objects whose power is uncountably infinitely greater than the prior tiers. That is to say, they can significantly affect, create and/or destroy higher-dimensional structures that exceed lesser objects by an uncountably infinite margin. An example of this being 4-dimensional spacetime continuums of universal size, but can be generalized to any 4-dimensional structure of a similar scope.

This doesn't mention anything about the size of the temporal dimension. In fact a 4D construct is by default uncountably infinite times bigger than an infinite 3D one. And since Momoshiki's dimension is considered a parallel dimension to the Earth's, and Kaguya's dimension which is stated to be similar to Momoshiki's has 4 dimensions. It would be logical to assume that all Otsutsuki dimensions are 4 dimensional constructs that are universal in size (spatially). Again I repeat, this includes non canon information (and is a pretty generous interpretation) so I am not saying this should be accepted, I'm just stating the consistency of my reasoning.

 

[Samlex1234]

I speculate that all present Otsutsuki are Shibai's avatars in some sense judging from Samurai 8, but we'll see.

I don't believe this to be true in the literal sense, we know that other Otsutsuki’s have attained godship. Otsutsuki’s are also immune to omnipotence (Race of the gods). So far we know only an otsutsuki have the capacity to become a god.

 

[Kayzz]

Secondary information
We also know that the Naruto world as we know it was created by a god and other gods have created different worlds with omnipotence.

It's either there is a supreme god above them all or when they ascend, they become one.

There is more evidence of the latter going by the Samurai 8 as the reference, plus Isshiki's statement about becoming "a peerless being".

Shibai was stated to create the present world - Universe, obviously.
The previous universe would likely be destroyed for a new one to take its place.
But that likely may not be true because of Omnipotence's permanence attribute. So, it is probably stored somewhere while a new one takes its place.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Koji calls the “Different Possible Futures”, Timeline Branches that the main timeline can take. Those “Possibilities” aren’t also just possible “Instances” but they also have their own drown out futures as well.

So yes, it is a “Multiverse” going by MWI. The only DIFFERENCE is, Koji also says those other Branches get Erased once the Main timeline selects a branch, but the only thing that does is create a infinite NEW branches the Main Timely can select from. So it’s a cycle of Infinite Creation/Infinite Erasure.

 

[Samlex1234]

It's either there is a supreme god above them all or when they ascend, they become one.

There is more evidence of the latter going by the Samurai 8 as the reference, plus Isshiki's statement about becoming "a peerless being".

Shibai was stated to create the present world - Universe, obviously.
The previous universe would likely be destroyed for a new one to take its place.
But that likely may not be true because of Omnipotence's permanence attribute. So, it is probably stored somewhere while a new one takes its place.

First of all I believe that the otutsuki dimension is in a different Time-space ( This is a personal opinion ) I believe another god that ascended before Shibai created this universe unless it was Isshiki that found the remains of Shibai and not Amado.
If it was Amado then he ascended while he was in the naruto universe thus, he couldn't have created it, however, it could also be that Isshiki brought the remains of Shibai from a different time-space to this Time-space (naruto universe ) he created.
We actually have no concrete evidence that Shibai created the current universe, however, we know that he can create one.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I'm so confused rn.

Koji calls the “Different Possible Futures”, Timeline Branches that the main timeline can take. Those “Possibilities” aren’t also just possible “Instances” but they also have their own drown out futures as well.

Can you tell me which page this is? Also is this the japanese version or the viz version.

So yes, it is a “Multiverse” going by MWI. The only DIFFERENCE is, Koji also says those other Branches get Erased once the Main timeline selects a branch, but the only thing that does is create a infinite NEW branches the Main Timely can select from. So it’s a cycle of Infinite Creation/Infinite Erasure.

This is not MWI tho. The way fate is described in Boruto, it might never be MWI, but it can be a multiverse. I'm still unsure of the continuous destruction of branches stuff.