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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

Padaruyos said:
Lmao true, the guy is easily the physically strongest out of Konoha 12 (discounting Nard and Sauce's megazords/super forms). Especially with Butterfly Mode.

Naruto would have to make a big ass Rasenshuriken in KCM1 to take him down, or just straight up use KCM2.

EMS Sasuke's Susanoo is also 6-C, this means that Butterfly Mode Chouji, would actually fight EQUALLY with a ******* Susanoo from EMS Sasuke. Unless he busts out Amaterasu.
Click to expand...
Eh not really, it's implied during the Rasenshuriken training that Fourth Tail Naruto should be around his level (100x Kakashi).
 
We should probably discuss whatever needs to be discussed for the bijuu scaling here? What's supposed to be changed anyway?
 
bard-shrug.gif
 
Do you guys think that Edo Nagato might straight up be physically stronger than KCM Naruto? The guy tanked V2 Bee Lariat with 0 damage and overpowered KCM Naruto in that weird soul tug of war.
 
Here's an interesting What-if scenario to think about. What if Itachi just removed the Edo Tenseis from Kabuto's control instead of dispelling it (only Madara is dispelled). So any remaining Edos who's willing to fight with the Shinobi Alliance goes to the front lines. Some Edos who are already sealed might also be unsealed to fight them. I dunno if Itachi can release someone from the Totsuka Blade sealing but let's assume he unseals Edo Nagato and the two just follows Sasuke and Orochimaru to summon the previous Hokages.

So from the top of my head we get extra Edo Nagato, Edo Itachi (with one missing eye so no Amaterasu and a weaker Susanoo), would there be any other edo Shinobis that would be willing to fight against Obito and Madara?
 
I kinda feel it kinda cheapens the moment of Itachi choose to leave the Edo Tenseis instead of releasing them.
 
Tbh, kinda true. Itachi doesn't really want to be seen as a hero, which he will be seen as if he participates in the war after the Kabuto ordeal.
 
Ah yes, I remember talking to Uchihaslayer on Discord about it. I think he was planning on taking what I had and mixing with his own research as well for the thread. I have a Sandbox with my progression already that I can share, but its incomplete.

Going across the entire manga and all Databooks with a fine-tooth comb is tiresome asf… 😩
 
So, to start off, I will be detailing the point from which a lot of notable Naruto Characters scale from, and that is Ay (Fourth Raikage). Allow me to explain...

As already discussed and accepted, Ay would be the strongest in Kirigakure based on his own feats and Databook statements but this is where details come into play. Let's talk about his V1 and V2 Cloaks and MS Sasuke. In the Manga we see that Ay in his V2 Cloak is capable of chopping through Sasuke’s Susanoo Ribs but the end result is Sasuke is just left with a bruised shoulder/neck. So we know that Susanoo Ribs absorbed most of Ay’s Attack and its because of this that we know that Ay’s V1 Cloak isn’t “Too much” weaker than his V2 Cloak as he is able to damage Sasuke’s Susanoo Ribs in his V1 Cloak and this is where we officially begin the scaling (NOTE: I will “mostly” be covering PHYSICALS because as we know, Ninjutsu tends to scale higher than Physicals).
  • Suigetsu — When Ay and Darui attempt to attack Sasuke, Suigetsu & Juugo block. Suigetsu manages to momentarily block & hold back Ay’s strike but after a bit, his sword snaps and he does say had he not been made of water, his arms would’ve been torn off. I’ll explain KB below but he also does Block a strike from KB.

  • Juugo — As with Suigetsu, when Juugo steps up in his 2nd State, Ay rushed him with V1 Cloak & Juugo Managed to Momentarily block but eventually Ay managed to “Push” a hole through his body.

  • Killer B — This one is pretty straight forward. He showed he is stronger than Suigetsu & Finessed Juugo. Now, Killer B has more feats against Ay, but those are controversial imo. Firstly, when he initially Blocks a Bloodlusted Ay, he is Partially Transformed. The next is when he tries to Lariat Ay but it does absolutely nothing and he get hurt by a casual elbow. Next he Matches (2nd Page) V1 Ay but then somehow overpower’s V2 Ay (Page 1, Page 2). I will make some proposals in the wrap up regarding KB.

  • Kisame — In his fight with Killer B, Kisame matched Killer B’s Thrust & Headbutt after absorbing the Lightning Chakra & Biju Cloak. (Shown: Here & Here)

  • Asuma — Asuma only has 3 fights in the series before he dies. He slaughters a group of Chunin being held by Shikamaru, fights Kisame when he and Itachi invade the leaf and Hidan & Kakuzu. In the Kisame fight, Asuma Takes a hit from a Serious Kisame (Something to NOTE, Asuma is actually holding up Samehada and it doesn’t actually touch his shoulder until Page 10, prompting Asuma to comment on his strength. This shows us that similarly to Suigetsu & Juugo, the initial hit isn’t what would mortally wound them, its the application of pressure after the hit). No doubt this is what prompted This response from Asuma as this is his first time meeting Hidan & Kakuzu.

  • Kakuzu — So, Kakuzu physically hits hard enough to Hurt Asuma. I’ll address his Biju Feat later towards the bottom.

  • Kakashi — Kakashi is stated in Databook 1 to be Konoha’s Strongest Ninja (Not Counting Hokage). The Databook also states that Asuma’s true strength is “Near” Kakashi’s but the implication is that he’s still below Kakashi. In addition to this, Kakashi is able to take direct hits from Kakuzu and keep fighting while also being able to Match his power output.

  • Hidan — Hidan would scale from Kakashi mostly. In his fight with Asuma, they one clash but it ammounts to nothing because Asuma simply cut the sword he was using in half with Wind Release. I mean… he did tank Asuma’s Jutsu with almost no issues and just complained about it but his best feats are tanking Kakuzu’s Jutsu & exchanging blows with Kakashi (Here & Here).

  • Sasuke — Sasuke is a primary scaler here. He doesn’t have “many” scalable feats prior to the KB fight and the Itachi fight isn’t a good indicator as its implied he was holding back and a lot of it was Genjutsu. That said, the KB fight is a perfect jumping off point as it represents Sasuke without the power of “The White Snake”. Here we see Sasuke initiate his assault on KB and in the next exchange, he completely blocks the strike (Note that as Sasuke rolls on top of the blade, the Blade isn’t moving as evident in its lack of motion lines and even if you wanted to argue that point, when Sasuke stabs his sword through the hole of the Executioners Blade, it doesn’t move beyond that, touch the blade even or so much as drags it. Sasuke legit just blocked it. Now yes, there is the “Infamous” Chest kick but as funny as that is, its inconsistent with the rest of Sasuke’s showings. After the chest kick, Sasuke goes on to exchange blows several times (2nd Page) before being overwhelmed. Later on he’s also shown being able to take strikes (2nd Strike) from Kakashi. As far as Ninjutsu strength goes, Sasuke was able to Hurt KB with a Nonlethal Chidori and could Harm Ay through his V1 cloak a little. I already Discussed Susanoo Ribs in the opening but obviously higher forms scale higher.

  • Danzou — Scales to Sasuke physically. He literally went H2h with Sasuke for 3 Minutes Straight after Sasuke Deactivated Susano’o. Higher with Combination Jutsu with his summoning jutsu & Izanagi for damaging a higher level Susano’o.

  • Gai — Databook 1 (See Kakashi For Link) states his strength & speed are comparable to Kakashi’s in Base. In Kazekage Rescue Mission, Guy blocks a strike from Kisame, as well as takes a punch to the gut, and even though he coughed up blood from the strike, he continued on without any real adverse affects and Destroyed the clone (Morning Peacock). I also want to note that the Itachi Clone was also Physically on par with Kakashi (And no, That punch wasn’t apart of the Genjutsu) so I know the Jutsu pain used uses 30% of their chakra to create these clones but that would mean the Kisame clone was still physically comparable if not superior to Base Gai & Kakashi. Then there is 7th Gate that One Shot Kisame.

  • Orochimaru & Jiraiya — These two are a headache but they have statements & narrative weight that could support their scaling. For starters, the first databook (See Kakashi for Link) asserts Jiraiya and Orochimaru are comparable to each other and this is supported by the flash back where Orochimaru (A Hokage Candidate At the Time), when he attempted to leave and Jiraiya tried to stop him, fought Jiraiya 1-on-1. Orochimaru assessed Kabuto’s strength to be Equal to Kakashi. When Orochimaru approached Kakashi and Sasuke, Kakashi was visibly shook after Orochimaru laughed at him and Invited him to attack him. I’ll get to Tsunade Later but Orochimaru did get back up from Not 1, but 2 strikes from Seal Released Tsunade. As for Jiraiya, he did tank a Dynamic Entry to the face with little damage. Itachi has a statement regarding Jiraiya that says If they fought, they might kill each other. Now, many people here don’t want to take Itachi’s statement as a fact because of his undercover status and what not (Even though that’s still highly speculative), but that doesn’t apply to Kisame who isn’t sure he can defeat Jiraiya and damn there admits inferiority. I believe these present good scaling for these characters based on the feats and Narrative weight.

  • Itachi -- This one is pretty straight-forward. Itachi scales over Kakashi. The clone Pain created was already comparable to Kakashi and these clones were weaker than their originals. Now, idk if the 30% thing translate to literally being a third as strong as the originals but its straight-forward none the less, Original > Clone. Now, I want to address Itachi's illness. So... as far as I know from all sources, we don't actually know "when" Itachi got sick. IIrc, it's never stated or implied "When" he gets sick in the Manga, Databooks & Novels. I guess one could argue that because even Zetsu didn't know of the illness, it would've been relatively recent but is still too speculative. So, as far as Part 1 Itachi is concerned, he'd likely need a "Possibly Higher" tag on his rating due to the uknown status of his illness date/timeframe. Edo Itachi however wouldn't be restricted from this illness and I believe that shows us exactly how strong he really is. First showings of strength is against KCM Naruto where he has several exchanges, as well as burn KB and had several exchanges with him as well. Against Kabuto he cut off a horn and equally clashed with him.


 
Kinda crazy that Naruto ended almost a decade ago and there's still revisions to be done to the profiles. It's been edited so many times I can't remember what it looked like in 2017/18
 
TFO said:
So, to start off, I will be detailing the point from which a lot of notable Naruto Characters scale from, and that is Ay (Fourth Raikage). Allow me to explain...

As already discussed and accepted, Ay would be the strongest in Kirigakure based on his own feats and Databook statements but this is where details come into play. Let's talk about his V1 and V2 Cloaks and MS Sasuke. In the Manga we see that Ay in his V2 Cloak is capable of chopping through Sasuke’s Susanoo Ribs but the end result is Sasuke is just left with a bruised shoulder/neck. So we know that Susanoo Ribs absorbed most of Ay’s Attack and its because of this that we know that Ay’s V1 Cloak isn’t “Too much” weaker than his V2 Cloak as he is able to damage Sasuke’s Susanoo Ribs in his V1 Cloak and this is where we officially begin the scaling (NOTE: I will “mostly” be covering PHYSICALS because as we know, Ninjutsu tends to scale higher than Physicals).
  • Suigetsu — When Ay and Darui attempt to attack Sasuke, Suigetsu & Juugo block. Suigetsu manages to momentarily block & hold back Ay’s strike but after a bit, his sword snaps and he does say had he not been made of water, his arms would’ve been torn off. I’ll explain KB below but he also does Block a strike from KB.

  • Juugo — As with Suigetsu, when Juugo steps up in his 2nd State, Ay rushed him with V1 Cloak & Juugo Managed to Momentarily block but eventually Ay managed to “Push” a hole through his body.

  • Killer B — This one is pretty straight forward. He showed he is stronger than Suigetsu & Finessed Juugo. Now, Killer B has more feats against Ay, but those are controversial imo. Firstly, when he initially Blocks a Bloodlusted Ay, he is Partially Transformed. The next is when he tries to Lariat Ay but it does absolutely nothing and he get hurt by a casual elbow. Next he Matches (2nd Page) V1 Ay but then somehow overpower’s V2 Ay (Page 1, Page 2). I will make some proposals in the wrap up regarding KB.

  • Kisame — In his fight with Killer B, Kisame matched Killer B’s Thrust & Headbutt after absorbing the Lightning Chakra & Biju Cloak. (Shown: Here & Here)

  • Asuma — Asuma only has 3 fights in the series before he dies. He slaughters a group of Chunin being held by Shikamaru, fights Kisame when he and Itachi invade the leaf and Hidan & Kakuzu. In the Kisame fight, Asuma Takes a hit from a Serious Kisame (Something to NOTE, Asuma is actually holding up Samehada and it doesn’t actually touch his shoulder until Page 10, prompting Asuma to comment on his strength. This shows us that similarly to Suigetsu & Juugo, the initial hit isn’t what would mortally wound them, its the application of pressure after the hit). No doubt this is what prompted This response from Asuma as this is his first time meeting Hidan & Kakuzu.

  • Kakuzu — So, Kakuzu physically hits hard enough to Hurt Asuma. I’ll address his Biju Feat later towards the bottom.

  • Kakashi — Kakashi is stated in Databook 1 to be Konoha’s Strongest Ninja (Not Counting Hokage). The Databook also states that Asuma’s true strength is “Near” Kakashi’s but the implication is that he’s still below Kakashi. In addition to this, Kakashi is able to take direct hits from Kakuzu and keep fighting while also being able to Match his power output.

  • Hidan — Hidan would scale from Kakashi mostly. In his fight with Asuma, they one clash but it ammounts to nothing because Asuma simply cut the sword he was using in half with Wind Release. I mean… he did tank Asuma’s Jutsu with almost no issues and just complained about it but his best feats are tanking Kakuzu’s Jutsu & exchanging blows with Kakashi (Here & Here).

  • Sasuke — Sasuke is a primary scaler here. He doesn’t have “many” scalable feats prior to the KB fight and the Itachi fight isn’t a good indicator as its implied he was holding back and a lot of it was Genjutsu. That said, the KB fight is a perfect jumping off point as it represents Sasuke without the power of “The White Snake”. Here we see Sasuke initiate his assault on KB and in the next exchange, he completely blocks the strike (Note that as Sasuke rolls on top of the blade, the Blade isn’t moving as evident in its lack of motion lines and even if you wanted to argue that point, when Sasuke stabs his sword through the hole of the Executioners Blade, it doesn’t move beyond that, touch the blade even or so much as drags it. Sasuke legit just blocked it. Now yes, there is the “Infamous” Chest kick but as funny as that is, its inconsistent with the rest of Sasuke’s showings. After the chest kick, Sasuke goes on to exchange blows several times (2nd Page) before being overwhelmed. Later on he’s also shown being able to take strikes (2nd Strike) from Kakashi. As far as Ninjutsu strength goes, Sasuke was able to Hurt KB with a Nonlethal Chidori and could Harm Ay through his V1 cloak a little. I already Discussed Susanoo Ribs in the opening but obviously higher forms scale higher.

  • Danzou — Scales to Sasuke physically. He literally went H2h with Sasuke for 3 Minutes Straight after Sasuke Deactivated Susano’o. Higher with Combination Jutsu with his summoning jutsu & Izanagi for damaging a higher level Susano’o.

  • Gai — Databook 1 (See Kakashi For Link) states his strength & speed are comparable to Kakashi’s in Base. In Kazekage Rescue Mission, Guy blocks a strike from Kisame, as well as takes a punch to the gut, and even though he coughed up blood from the strike, he continued on without any real adverse affects and Destroyed the clone (Morning Peacock). I also want to note that the Itachi Clone was also Physically on par with Kakashi (And no, That punch wasn’t apart of the Genjutsu) so I know the Jutsu pain used uses 30% of their chakra to create these clones but that would mean the Kisame clone was still physically comparable if not superior to Base Gai & Kakashi. Then there is 7th Gate that One Shot Kisame.

  • Orochimaru & Jiraiya — These two are a headache but they have statements & narrative weight that could support their scaling. For starters, the first databook (See Kakashi for Link) asserts Jiraiya and Orochimaru are comparable to each other and this is supported by the flash back where Orochimaru (A Hokage Candidate At the Time), when he attempted to leave and Jiraiya tried to stop him, fought Jiraiya 1-on-1. Orochimaru assessed Kabuto’s strength to be Equal to Kakashi. When Orochimaru approached Kakashi and Sasuke, Kakashi was visibly shook after Orochimaru laughed at him and Invited him to attack him. I’ll get to Tsunade Later but Orochimaru did get back up from Not 1, but 2 strikes from Seal Released Tsunade. As for Jiraiya, he did tank a Dynamic Entry to the face with little damage. Itachi has a statement regarding Jiraiya that says If they fought, they might kill each other. Now, many people here don’t want to take Itachi’s statement as a fact because of his undercover status and what not (Even though that’s still highly speculative), but that doesn’t apply to Kisame who isn’t sure he can defeat Jiraiya and damn there admits inferiority. I believe these present good scaling for these characters based on the feats and Narrative weight.

  • Itachi -- This one is pretty straight-forward. Itachi scales over Kakashi. The clone Pain created was already comparable to Kakashi and these clones were weaker than their originals. Now, idk if the 30% thing translate to literally being a third as strong as the originals but its straight-forward none the less, Original > Clone. Now, I want to address Itachi's illness. So... as far as I know from all sources, we don't actually know "when" Itachi got sick. IIrc, it's never stated or implied "When" he gets sick in the Manga, Databooks & Novels. I guess one could argue that because even Zetsu didn't know of the illness, it would've been relatively recent but is still too speculative. So, as far as Part 1 Itachi is concerned, he'd likely need a "Possibly Higher" tag on his rating due to the uknown status of his illness date/timeframe. Edo Itachi however wouldn't be restricted from this illness and I believe that shows us exactly how strong he really is. First showings of strength is against KCM Naruto where he has several exchanges, as well as burn KB and had several exchanges with him as well. Against Kabuto he cut off a horn and equally clashed with him.


Click to expand...
Why not use the anime to see if something is moving or not?
 
KingogKings777 said:
Why not use the anime to see if something is moving or not?
Click to expand...
The Naruto anime is notorious for adding filler to fights. I watched it and killer B does a full 360 spin instead of shoing Sasuke stopping it before he rolls onto the blade but Sasuke does stop it dead when he stabs through the hole.
 
Padaruyos said:
Here's an interesting What-if scenario to think about. What if Itachi just removed the Edo Tenseis from Kabuto's control instead of dispelling it (only Madara is dispelled). So any remaining Edos who's willing to fight with the Shinobi Alliance goes to the front lines. Some Edos who are already sealed might also be unsealed to fight them. I dunno if Itachi can release someone from the Totsuka Blade sealing but let's assume he unseals Edo Nagato and the two just follows Sasuke and Orochimaru to summon the previous Hokages.

So from the top of my head we get extra Edo Nagato, Edo Itachi (with one missing eye so no Amaterasu and a weaker Susanoo), would there be any other edo Shinobis that would be willing to fight against Obito and Madara?
Click to expand...
A3
Asuma
Chiyo
Obito's Jinchuuriki
Dan Kato
Maybe Deidara, solely off hating Obito
Gari
Kinkaku and Ginkaku(trying to protect their Bijuu chakra)
Zabuza and Haku
Hanzo
Hizashi
Mangetsu
Mu
Kakuzu, in an attempt to hunt Hashirama
Pakura
Rasa
Sasori
Shin(Sai's brother)
Toroi
Torune
Yagura
 
Some Bijuu scaling notes I have:

Deva Path easily one-shotted Gamabunta and two other giant Toads. Gamabunta was sent flying and later says all of his bones are broken. Therefore Pain's stronger variants of Shinra Tensei should scale far above Gamabunta, who himself downscales from Shukaku.

Varies, up to 6-C+ with Shinra Tensei, higher with Chaotic Shinra Tensei, even higher with Chibaku Tensei.

KN6 Naruto, managed to bust through Pain's Shinra Tensei. Pain is impressed by his power. And it's the first time someone has ever managed to break through Shinra Tensei. Pain also have to resort to using Chibaku Tensei to defeat KN6 Naruto. KN6 Naruto would scale to 6-C+, KN7 and KN8 is obviously even higher, with a possibility of a High 6-C rating for KN8, since it's just one tail away from unleashing Kurama's Full Power.

As for KCM and SM Naruto during the War Arc, I don't think they scale to 6-C+ just yet except with super moves like the Rasenshuriken. Even then KCM Naruto's RS didn't deal much damage to A3, someone who fought Gyuki to a stalemate. KCM Naruto was also instantly sent flying by Edo Nagato's Shinra Tensei. So I don't think he scales physically yet.

As for the Rasenshuriken, KCM Naruto did manage to remove A3's lightning cloak, though he didn't deal much damage to the actual A3. SM Naruto who should be not far behind KCM Naruto, managed to create a Rasenshuriken strong enough to force Madara to activate his Rinnegan and absorb it, with him even noting that it has "too much energy." And previously, SM Naruto's RS is strong enough to Stun Kurama long enough for Naruto to take his Chakra. I think WA Naruto's Rasenshuriken when using SM or KCM could scale to 6-C or 6-C+. But physically he shouldn't be that high.
 
It's a bit weird though, if KCM1 is 6-C+ he should be able to fight physically with A3. While it's clear that A3 is much stronger than KCM1 Naruto.

Unless there's some sort of scaling chain here. Maybe this?

Gamabunta < Pain's Shinra Tensei < KN6 Naruto < KCM Naruto < Average Bijuu = 64 Gigatons < Gyuki = Third Raikage
 
I mean, nothing contradicts Gyuki being above the other bijuu, he struggled against the Amped War arc Bijuus after all.

And yes, KCM1 Naruto>KN6 Naruto, that's even reflected on the profiles.
 
Hold on let's see if I can make a more complete scaling chain here.

Gamabunta <(one-shot) Pain ST < KN6 Nard < KCM1 Nard =< V2 Bee < Average Bijuu (64 Gigatons) < Gyuki ~ Itachi's Yasaka Magatama ~ KCM1 Nard RS ~ Gyuki's casual TBB = Third Raikage
 
Padaruyos said:
It's a bit weird though, if KCM1 is 6-C+ he should be able to fight physically with A3. While it's clear that A3 is much stronger than KCM1 Naruto.

Unless there's some sort of scaling chain here. Maybe this?

Gamabunta < Pain's Shinra Tensei < KN6 Naruto < KCM Naruto < Average Bijuu = 64 Gigatons < Gyuki = Third Raikage
Click to expand...
Who is A3? 🤔

Edit: Nvm. You mean Third Raikage 💀
 
Even though A3 Body wasn’t “Harmed” by KCM Naruto’s FRS, his cloak was dispatched and he was momentarily knocked out, and even though Futon has an advantage over Raiton, wasn’t it established A3’s Raiton was resistant to Futon?
 
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