Naruto Speed Revisions and Scaling III

[M3X_2.0]

I would like if we wait till Tuesday, because I disagree with 70% of the ratings, not only me but some supporters as well

 

[AstralKing7]

I disagree as well. There is no form of Madara that is rel as well.

Also if it was agreed that Bee has sub rel reactions than Nagato should scale because he was able to attack him before he could even react.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

@Damage Itatchi was able to keep pace with Kabuto on multiple occasions, the even clashed equally at times as well. I dont think Itachi should have a MHS+ rating if Kabuto and EMS Sasuke scale to Sub-Rel.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Also anyone scaling to 6th gate guy should have an "At least" rating as well.

 

[Damage3245]

> If Gaara gets Sub Rel reactions then so does people who scale to him and most BoS transformation would be Sub Rel

What do you mean by "BoS transformation"?

> There is no form of Madara that is rel as well.

What do you mean? Are you saying Madara isn't Relativistic?

> Also anyone scaling to 6th gate guy should have an "At least" rating as well.

We discussed on the last thread that it would be better if Obito and Kakashi weren't rated as "At least" because they're not equals to Guy in speed. Obito can react to him and he wouldn't get blitzed by him, but that doesn't mean he is 6th Gate Guy's equal in combat speed.

> Also if it was agreed that Bee has sub rel reactions than Nagato should scale because he was able to attack him before he could even react.

This didn't happen. Killer B explicitly reacted to Nagato's attempt to attack him.

 

[AstralKing7]

I meant to say sub rel for Madara.

Killer Bee didn't react to Nagato at all.

Also Nagato was able to perceive Itachi's speed after his fire ball attack even when Naruto was the only one that did and Killer bee couldn't even T.O. his surprise when Nagato has to tell them where Itachi had gone



There are a lot of things being overlooked in the scaling for the top tier tbh

 

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7; that seems like it might be good evidence to suggest that Killer B doesn't in fact have Sub-Rel reactions in base.

While we're at it there's also Killer B being surprised by KCM Naruto's and the Raikage's speed during their fight and failing to react to a hit from the Raikage.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

That doesnt make sense, you cant scale a character to someone with "At least" and not give them the same rating. Also can you prove obito doesnt scale? Throughout their entire battle, none of them could tag him except for a combined attack. Also we can also give 6th gate guy a "likely" higher rating.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

@AstralKing7; that seems like it might be good evidence to suggest that Killer B doesn't in fact have Sub-Rel reactions in base.

No, that proves that all of them scale fully to Sub-Rel. B has far more evidence backing his rating up, especially when they fight the V2 jins.

 

[Damage3245]

> Also can you prove obito doesnt scale?

The only time the V2 Jin's manage to land a hit on Might Guy is when he blocked it easily. The Jin's aren't completely blitzed by Might Guy, but I don't see them being his equal in terms of speed.

There's also the issue of Obito fighting Might Guy without the Gates and he isn't completely dominating him.

> Throughout their entire battle, none of them could tag him except for a combined attack.

That would have to do with Obito's reaction speed, not his speed in general.

> That doesnt make sense, you cant scale a character to someone with "At least" and not give them the same rating.

You can if they're comparable but not equal. They belong in the same tier which is why they're Sub-Rel only.

 

[AstralKing7]

@AstralKing7; that seems like it might be good evidence to suggest that Killer B doesn't in fact have Sub-Rel reactions in base.

While we're at it there's also Killer B being surprised by KCM Naruto's and the Raikage's speed during their fight and failing to react to a hit from the Raikage.

Not how this works buddy. Killer bee has evidence that supports Sub Rel. Nagato does as well. Itachi does as well. If you can't bring any evidence from the manga this disproves their speed then we will logically scale them to sub re as well

 

[AstralKing7]

Also here we go again with the jins ƒñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å They literally scale to Naruto. They don't have to scale to might guy. So if Naruto needs an at lest jins should as well

 

[Omimi]

where is Might Guy (1st Gate) ?

and also where is lee ( Gate) ?


Kisame Hoshigaki (Base) is sub-rel for able keep up with v1 Bee

Jiraiya is also sub-rel if we accept statement (him being able to fight both kisame and itachi)


MS Sasuke is sub-rel for able to react v1 Bee

Danzō Shimura scale to MS sasuke

and kage scale to sub-rel unless we belive 1st gate guy can blitz all kage

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I disagree with most of the high tiers not being sub-rel as well FRA.

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; Might Guy and Rock Lee don't have keys for just their 1st Gate. And you can't indirectly scale characters to Might Guy's 1st Gate just because you can't believe that they're potentially slower than him using a speed amplifying technique.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@Omimi; Might Guy and Rock Lee don't have keys for just their 1st Gate. And you can't indirectly scale characters to Might Guy's 1st Gate just because you can't believe that they're potentially slower than him using a speed amplifying technique.

Actually I think we can because a lot of evidence for these characters scaling has been presented in these 2 threads, and I don't feel like you've sufficiently addressed/debunked it.

I feel like a lot of evidence has either been overlooked or ignored entirely...

 

[Damage3245]

Actually I think we can because a lot of evidence for these characters scaling has been presented in these 2 threads, and I don't feel like you've sufficiently addressed/debunked it.

Did you misread what I posted?

I said you can't just scale someone to Sub-Rel just because you can't believe they're slower than Guy when he uses the 1st Gate.

As for people that do actually scale to Sub-Rel, I've heard evidence proposed for them and I agree with some of the ratings and some of the others I do not.

There are some people here who acts as if a Sub-Rel fighter fighting someone who is "At least MHS+" would absolutely blitz them without question which I just don't understand.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Did you misread what I posted?

I said you can't just scale someone to Sub-Rel just because you can't believe they're slower than Guy when he uses the 1st Gate.

As for people that do actually scale to Sub-Rel, I've heard evidence proposed for them and I agree with some of the ratings and some of the others I do not.

There are some people here who acts as if a Sub-Rel fighter fighting someone who is "At least MHS+" would absolutely blitz them without question which I just don't understand.

I mean maybe it's because the speed difference is potentially 5X. The MHS+ feat they scale to is mach 3000 correct? Might guy in the first gate would then be 5X as fast as that give or take, and then the other gates amplify him even further. So my point is of course these characters would get blitzed with such a massive difference in speed

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

@Damage Obito is fighting three people at the same time, all of who scale to him on speed.

 

[Damage3245]

> I mean maybe it's because the speed difference is potentially 5X. The MHS+ feat they scale to is mach 3000 correct?

When a character is rated as "At least" that high, then to me that is saying that is the minimum they scale to but they're potentially anywhere above that in the MHS+ tier. Meaning the speed difference between them and someone who is Sub-Rel is definitely not a 5x speed difference.

 

[Omimi]

konan scale to obito

 

[M3X_2.0]

I would like if we wait till Tuesday, because I disagree with 70% of the ratings, not only me but some supporters as well

@Damage

 

[Damage3245]

konan scale to obito

Konan's revisions have been handled when we discussed the Mid Tier scaling.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I don't know if you can edit the OP, if so, I would like if you add both sandboxes

 

[Damage3245]

I would like if we wait till Tuesday, because I disagree with 70% of the ratings, not only me but some supporters as well

@Damage

I know. I don't mind waiting because there is no rush on this. I was letting everyone know what the sandbox has been updated to.

And a lot of the ratings on there are compromises that I've proposed to some Naruto supporters who are generally okay with them. Disagreeing with a whole 70% of the ratings seems weird. Which ones are you actually okay with?

I'll update the OP.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Well right now, Guy, Kakashi, Obito, Naruto and all Biju V2. They all looks fine. I will also work to improve even more their justifications.

I don't agree with Bee's rating, I will create a huge wall of text with scans and all showing what the ratings should be.

 

[Damage3245]

Eh, please try to keep it reasonable. Starting an argument chain based on trying to respond to each other's huge wall of texts tends to bog threads down.

 

[M3X_2.0]

The text will be about Bee and Kisame speed, and I will use the spoiler tag too

 

[Damage3245]

Also, I want to note to some people that Killer B in his base form is a pretty inconsistent character.

Like, on one hand you have Killer B intercepting an attack from the Lightning Armor Raikage and later completely overpowering his Lariat while in base with own Lariat.

And on the other hand you have Killer B completely fail to react to an attack from base Raikage and failing to even budge the Raikage with his Lariat.

So the best compromise I think that might work for Killer B here is for his speed in base to be "At least Massively Hypersonic+, possibly Sub-Relativistic".

That's honestly the highest I can see his speed being rated.

 

[AstralKing7]

Damage Lariet being overpowered is an AP feat. Don't include that as an inconsistency for for speed when that dead with AP.

That's jsut a bad argument. I don't agree with your reasoning at all.

Also Killer Bee did say himself he always held back against Ay. Now that I think about it that chapter should have had it in it too.

I definitely am for sub rel killer bee

 

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7; yes, it is AP but it is part of the issue with Killer B's inconsistency as a whole. The other parts I mentioned are to do with his speed.

And I don't remember Killer B saying he ever held back against Ay.

 

[LordTracer]

Should Haku scale to the Mid-High Tiers? I believe it was stated/implied he was holding back against Naruto and Sasuke in the Land of Waves Arc, and as an Edo Tensei he had a few feats on the Mid-High tier level.

- Haku was able to fight Rock Lee, and later react to a simultaneous kick from Rock Lee and Base Might Gai.

- He was also able to react to Sai's ink birds dropping paper bombs on them.

- Through his ice mirrors, he was able to intercept War Arc Kakashi's Raikiri, just like in the Land of Waves arc.

 

[Omimi]

@Omimi; Might Guy and Rock Lee don't have keys for just their 1st Gate. And you can't indirectly scale characters to Might Guy's 1st Gate just because you can't believe that they're potentially slower than him using a speed amplifying technique.

we have feat so no its not that i can't believe

• Mei-Terumi, Gaara & danzo scale to sub-rel MS sasuke and anyone who fought MS sasuke
• Hiruzen scale to danzo
• Orochimaru scale to Hiruzen

• Onoki was able to keep up with sub-rel mu also fought sub-rel MS sasuke

• all 5 kage also has feat against casual madara

• so saying they dont have feat is false

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; MS Sasuke is rated as Massively Hypersonic+ with Sub-Rel perception, so fighting against him wouldn't make them Sub-Rel.

 

[Omimi]

than his rating is wrong

he was able to react and dodge Bee's lariat which is faster than Bee's normal sub-rel speed







he can also react and counter v1 raikage


so he all-round scale to sub-rel

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; Bee's normal speed isn't settled on Sub-Rel yet, and being able to react to Killer B's Lariat is the whole reason why Sasuke has Sub-Rel perception.

 

[Omimi]

reacting and dodging Bee's lariat isn't perception feats

its reaction and combat speed feat

and also look above sasuke feat against v1 raikage

all this prove that kage summit 3t/ms sasule is all-round scale to sub-rel

 

[Damage3245]

I do agree that it should be changed to reaction speed, but Sauske himself is clearly not as fast as B going by his performance against him while B was in base.

 

[Omimi]

gaara intercept v1 raikage kick

so h

e should get sub-rel attack speed with send

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; that was a drop kick. Thinking about it logically it is pretty unlikely that the Raikage was falling at Sub-Relativistic speeds. Unless gravity on the Naruto world is a thousand times higher than ours.