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Naruto Speed Revisions and Scaling III

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Okay, so this list that I've drafted up isn't final so it's fine to disagree so long as things are kept civil and everyone is open to discussion. There are some ratings on here that I'm not fully satisfied with either but it is temporary. This is just so that we have a summary we can work off of.

Here is a sandbox containing them all.

I'm going to keep working on expanding this and including more characters from the High Tier list.
 
Second to last person on that, you have A (Fourth) followed by A (Third). I assume you meant for both of those to be A (Third)?
 
@Damage

The sandbox looks acceptable. But I have things to add:

But clearly Killer V2 is Sub-Relativistic. He is on the same level as the others Jinchuurikis V2, who fought and held on to Naruto KCM. This also puts Kisame Fusion to Sub-Relativistic, for fought him.

Killer B V1, should be "likely Sub-Relativistic", since he needs that way to match the strength and speed of LCM Ay, to run Lariat.

Guy w/ 6th Gate should be "At least Sub-Relativistic, likely higher/much higher (The 1st Gate increases its attributes by 5x and the others gates are unquantifiable above it). We clearly see the difference in speed of Rock Lee, after activating the 4th and 5th gates, in Classic.
 
@BlackeJan; the Jin's are only Sub-Rel when controlled by Obito as part of his Six Paths.

I don't think any of them while alive scale to Sub-Rel.
 
Jins are sub rel already, not because of Obito, we never said they were because of him. They can keep up with Guy, Kakashi and attack KCM Naruto, and also keep up with Bee.

@Damage

You need to keep things consistent, if Guy has an "At least", then characters comparable to him should also be "at least"

Ay enhanced by Onoki scales above Edo Madara, as he can blitz him, literally. He went away of Madara's field of view and attacked his susano
 
And we can improve Guy's justification for his 6th and 7th Gate, will do it later
 
@M3X; I've been over the reasons why the Jin's stats shouldn't scale back to their alive selves. It doesn't make a lot of sense and we run into some pretty big inconsistencies.

Someone on the last thread suggested a compromise of having Obito and Kakashi being just "Sub Rel" while Guy in 6th Gate is "At least Sub-Rel". Obito and his Jins are slower than 6th Gate Guy from what I can tell.

As for Ay enhanced by Onoki, he was listed in the high tier group which threw me off.
 
@Damage

I am talking about their Edo versions, since I only talked about their feats with Kakashi, KCM, Guy and Bee. They didn't fought any of these characters before.

I disagree with that ideia, since Kakashi can constantly keep up with Guy and enemies comparable to Guy. KCM should also be "At least" in speed, for the same reason as Kakashi, and because he dodged a sub rel attack at point blank range, easily.

Let's just remove this Ay version for this discussion for now, because he has a potential to be Relativistic
 
@M3X; sorry, I thought you were talking about their alive selves.

I think that Kakashi, Obito and KCM Naruto work out better as being Sub-Rel. Kakashi only "kept up" with 6th Gate Guy on two occasions that I can think of, and I don't think either of them prove that he's 6th Gate Guy's equal in terms of speed. The Jins under Obito's control could fight against Guy, but I don't think their performance against him makes them equals either.

So them being baseline Sub Rel would be better.
 
I don't know why Jin's alive are in the discussion. They barely have feats, in addition to almost irrelevant appearances and have never been shown in-screen, with the exception of Yugito. I think about simply ignoring them in Alive form.

I also think that Naruto KCM deserves an "At least".
It should at least be comparable to Guy 7th Gate in speed.
 
@MostPowerfull; do you mean 6th Gate? Because I don't think there's been any comparison between himself and 7th Gate Guy.
 
Well Damage, you should already know that what you think or not, means nothing without proof/evidence. Just throw opinions and your toughts in the air isn't an argument
 
Naruto was able to blitz Kisame from a long distance, more easily than Guy and could not even control his right power.
He was easily able to dodge a point blank punch from Ay.

Guy used his gates to keep up with the Jin V2, which are at most comparable to Naruto KCM.

Naruto KCM should be "At least".
 
Yeah. Also, Ay was considered to be the fastest ninja there, and this include Guy as well. Naruto dodging his fastest attack is a support to put him "At least'
 
@MostPowerfull + M3X; I'm fine with putting Naruto as "At least Sub-Rel" too.

@M3X; to be fair we don't know if that includes shinobi when they're using the Eight Gates which makes them much faster than normal. Obviously 8th Gate Guy is much faster than Ay. We don't know whether or not it same the might apply for Guy in the 6th Gate or 7th Gate. Just saying.
 
I've edited the sandbox with the accepted stuff, like the "At least" for KCM Naruto. I also improved some of the justifications
 
Gaara need sub rel attack speed and movement with sand, as it could intercept and block some of Madara's attacks
 
In the next thread would someone mind linking the sandbox in the op

@M3X I definitely agree with this he has plenty of showings
 
I think Gaara needs to have attack and reaction Sub-Rel.

He was able to save Sasuke, just before Guy Top Speed killed or hurt him badly.
And he reacted to some casual attacks by Madara.
 
It's probably best not to scale the Kage to Edo Madara since he was barely trying against them, the hits that he did take were taken on purpose mostly since he knew he would regenerate
 
This would he correct if we were discussing AP, wich is not the case. Gaara legit has feats with his sand to scale to Madara
 
I disagree with scale any of the Kages to Edo Madara.

Madara was literally treating them like garbage, playing with them, barely reacting and literally taking an attack, just to show them his torso.
They were all casually stomped by Madara. It is extremely unlikely that Madara, be intercepted or something like that by the Kages, when Tenso no Jutsu did not do that.

Perhaps reacting to such attacks would be a legitimate feat for Sub-Rel, seeing that Madara was extremely casual, but scaling some of them to Rel or something, is meaningless and inconsistent.
 
M3X said:
This would he correct if we were discussing AP, wich is not the case. Gaara legit has feats with his sand to scale to Madara
Click to expand...
We should make a separate part in his speed about his sand speed

Adult Gaara was also able to react to Fused Momoshiki with his sand multiple times, it's obvious he himself is nowhere near as fast as his Sand is
 
M3X said:
Gaara need sub rel attack speed and movement with sand, as it could intercept and block some of Madara's attacks
Click to expand...
That's literally what I said. The sand move by its own will to protect Gaara sometimes, so it doesnt scale to his reactions
 
Gaara out of all the Kage has a legitimate feat against Madara. Gaara was fast enough to be able to move his sand before Madara made contact with a sword against other ninjas.

This a pretty good supporting feat
 
Let's all take these things case by case. I don't agree with Mei scaling during that whole fight because of Madara playing around.
 
AstralKing7 said:
Let's all take these things case by case. I don't agree with Mei scaling during that whole fight because of Madara playing around.
Click to expand...
My solution to that would be to make them "At least Sub-Rel", likely higher. Since we know Madara was playing around, we just don't know how much he was holding back.
 
M3X said:
I've edited the sandbox with the accepted stuff, like the "At least" for KCM Naruto. I also improved some of the justifications
Click to expand...
Thanks.

I also agree that most of the Kages should not be scaling to Madara's speed.

Gaara's attack speed is one of the ratings that I could see being Likely Sub-Rel.
 
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