Naruto Revisions: Notto Disu Shitto Agen

[Mindovin]

I'm neutral about Lee but don't forget he escaped from hospital before completly healed and Lee physically much more powerful than characters like Naruto, Sasuke and most Jonin even.

For revived Madara: Bijuu attacked his legged Susano'o with their 1 tails. If someone can calc Kurama's tail attack we can possibly guess as even half state Kurama most powerful Bijuu both sheer size and physical striking strength.

I'm curious how Madara created a Susano'o without eyes? Is it not WIS/PIS.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

What's the problem with Madara now?

 

[Kepekley23]

Even the Kaguya thing doesn't belong here.

 

[LordWhis]

Ok, let's do it!

Exhibit A: 1 Rinnegan Madara should logically be 1/5x as strong as his Edo Form. If we assume Edo Madara to be as strong as Tenpaichi (& he's probably weaker) then that should put him at 10.7815501912 petatonnes.

This puts 1/5 of that at roughly 2 petatons, so 6-A.

We are not taking sage mode into account here so let's make it atleast 6-a.

But there is also the fact that he absorbed Hashi's chakra & was portrayed as stronger than before. So Atleast 6-A, Likely Higher should do it.

 

[LordWhis]

@Mindovin: Susanoo is a part of your soul & separate from your eyes allegedly, it's just awakened by your eyes & if you have eyes you can't use without using your eyes, or something like that is what I've read. I guess it might be classifiable as wis or pis.

BM Naruto does have Low 6-B striking strength & if Madara could tank his attack then Low 6-B makes sense.

I would like to know if he attacked BM Naruto at all though & how much damage did he do ?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Wait, what does WIS mean?

 

[Mindovin]

@LordWhis

Rinnegan don't give ap, durability, striking strength, stamina, speed and lifting strenght as a passively other than Rinnegan's special abilites for person. Rinnegan regarged as most powerful dojutsu because it's contains several powerful haxes for the verse.

 

[Mindovin]

Writer-Induced Stupidity. Like character equalization. Example:

Kishimoto love Sasuke more than Naruto and this reason even Sasuke don't have Senjutsu he able to destroy Naruto's TSOs with only weak Susano'o arrows for only Naruto don't win the fight in the beginning or something like this.

Summarizing it is writers bias and/or incompetency.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

@LordWhis
Rinnegan don't give ap, durability, striking strength, stamina, speed and lifting strenght as a passively other than Rinnegan's special abilites for person. Rinnegan regarged as most powerful dojutsu because it's contains several powerful haxes for the verse.

Rinnegan contains chakra.

 

[LordWhis]

Wait, what does WIS mean?

Writer Induced Stupidity.

Also Madara physically no-sold Amaterasu, but I think that was probably because Sasuke was tired from his previous fight.

Actually, hmmm, Naruto & Kurama were likely tired too, they could not have been at full power when they attacked Madara. So his current rating is fine for eyeless Madara actually, unless Naruto absorbed chakra from the 9 tailed beasts just before his encounter with Madara.(I know Naruto did it at some point but I don't know when)

So yeah, current rating is fine for eyeless Madara.

 

[Omimi]

just put it all in one key

Tier: At least 7-B, 6-B with Perfect Susano'o, Kurama, and Majestic Attire: Susano'o | At least 7-B, Low 6-B with Tengai Shinsei, 6-B with Wood Release, High 6-A with Perfect Susano'o | At least High 6-C with Sage Mode and Complete Susano'o, possibly 6-A with Sage Mode and single Rinagan , High 6-A with Sage Mode and dual Rinnegan| At least Low 5-B | At least Low 5-B


Key: Prime Madara | Edo Madara | Revived Madara | Six Paths Sage Madara | Six Paths Sage Madara (With Shinju absorbed, dual Rinnegan and Rinne-Sharingan)


it will look like bold^

 

[LordWhis]

'''Help Please:''' What form was Naruto in when he & Sasuke hurt the Ten Tails together & also when they hurt Juubito together.

 

[LordWhis]

Could SM Hashirama be 5-C+ ?

He was stronger than Prime Kurama in base so he should logically be stronger than Prime Kurama when both are in Sage Mode. Also Hashirama is supposedly twice as strong as 50% BSM Naruto which should make him as strong as 100% BSM Naruto. He also said that 100% BM Naruto was weaker than his base. The same should hold true for sage mode.

This is not off topic because it would directly impact Madara as well.

 

[Mindovin]

@LordWhis

Chapter 634

Rinnegan don't increase ap or other stats it's user passively.

'Shin Süsenju is SM Hashirama's most powerful jutsu. Without Mokuton Kurama stomp base Hashirama 'with utter ease.

 

[Omimi]

i agree with Revived Madara = Writer Induced Stupidity

1.without Rinnegan he could absorb hashirama sage mode even thou hashirmaa wasn't even on sage mode lol

2.could absorb Amaterasu without Rinnegan

3.even thou edo madara fail to overpower hashirama seal but for some reason eyeless Madara who should be far weaker then edo madara could overpower hashirama seal

all of this 3 are asspull in my opinion

 

[TataHakai]

Could SM Hashirama be 5-C+ ?
He was stronger than Prime Kurama in base so he should logically be stronger than Prime Kurama when both are in Sage Mode.

This is not off topic because it would directly impact Madara as well.

Since when is Kurama Moon level?

 

[LordWhis]

@Omimi:

I don't disagree with you actually !

BTW: What do you think about 5-C+ SM Hashirama ?

 

[Omimi]

@ LordWhis

Could SM Hashirama be 5-C+ ?


no

 

[TataHakai]

@ LordWhis
Could SM Hashirama be 5-C+ ?


no

Nvm just seen it

If Kurama is Moon level then why would SM Hashirama be any less?

 

[Mindovin]

@Omimi

Chakra absorption Madara's unique trait.

He absorb Amaterasu but most of the flames on Madara's armor as it's burned and we know Amaterasu burn too slow as several characters even fodder Samurais remove their armor and didn't burned this way.

Six Path Sage Chakra Enhancement Kurama 5-C. Prime Kurama 6-B.

 

[Omimi]

Last kurama 5-C not prime kurama


1.Last kurama has sage mode but prime kurama doesnt

2.Last kurama has chakra mode/kcm but prime kurama doesnt

3.Last kurama and naruto can use each other power like it was their own power but prime kurama doesnt


And lastly if we put SM Hashirama at 5-C+ then we have to put all High 6-A( jubito,BSM,EMS and madara) in tier 5-C+ and i am 100% sure that wont happen

 

[LordWhis]

@Tatahakai:

I can see where we went wrong, all of our High 6-A calcs came from Tenpaichi but tenpaichi is just a casual, passive attack & nowhere near the the Juubi's full potential.

This makes sense in a lot of ways, Juubito destroying the world doesn't really seem like hyperbole now. It makes sense since the power gap between Juubito & Juubidara was never portrayed as anywhere near what we show it to be on the wiki.

I think we may need to make all of our High 6-A characters 5-C+, we definitely aren't done with revisions yet !

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

i agree with Revived Madara = Writer Induced Stupidity
1.without Rinnegan he could absorb hashirama sage mode even thou hashirmaa wasn't even on sage mode lol

2.could absorb Amaterasu without Rinnegan

3.even thou edo madara fail to overpower hashirama seal but for some reason eyeless Madara who should be far weaker then edo madara could overpower hashirama seal

all of this 3 are asspull in my opinion

1. He has Hashi's cells. He transfered the chakra to himself.

2. He could have a chakra absorbing tech of his own...

3. Edo Madara didn't counterattack until he had BZ use Obito to revive him. He wanted to be shown defeated. If he wanted he could easily bust the gates.

 

[Omimi]

@ Mindovin

this is still an asspull bold no?

1.without Rinnegan he could absorb hashirama sage mode even thou hashirmaa wasn't even on sage mode lol

 

[TheFinalOrder]

i agree with Revived Madara = Writer Induced Stupidity
1.without Rinnegan he could absorb hashirama sage mode even thou hashirmaa wasn't even on sage mode lol

2.could absorb Amaterasu without Rinnegan

3.even thou edo madara fail to overpower hashirama seal but for some reason eyeless Madara who should be far weaker then edo madara could overpower hashirama seal

all of this 3 are asspull in my opinion

For starters, something we have to nip in the bud right now. It is not stated or implied anywhere that having no eyes = you can't use some of their abilities. What Madara shows us here is that:

• Susanoo can still be used without eyes

• Preta-Can be used without eyes

Madara's statement:




Says that only with 2 eyes can the Sharingans (And Rinnegan's) true power be utilized. This doesn't mean they can't be used at all, just that they are diminished, weakened.

Revived Madara pressumably can't use PS.Which is why he used a lesser Susanoo. With a Sharingan that has lost it's light, Itachi is still able to use His Susanoo and such.

Kishimoto has portrayed time and time again that Dojutsu users can still use their abilities within reason unless specifically stated otherwise like in the case of Shisui's Koto.

Madara can only absorb Chakra via Preta Path. We know having 1 Rinnegan diminishes the users occular capabilities to 1/5th their potential. Logically, having no eyes is lower, but it's not impossible to use.

 

[TataHakai]

Last kurama 5-C not prime kurama

1.Last kurama has sage mode but prime kurama doesnt

2.Last kurama has chakra mode/kcm but prime kurama doesnt

3.Last kurama and naruto can use each other power like it was their own power but prime kurama doesnt


And lastly if we put SM Hashirama at 5-C+ then we have to put all High 6-A( jubito,BSM,EMS and madara) in tier 5-C+ and i am 100% sure that wont happen

So what, Kurama learned how to use sage mode? That sounds like headcanon to me

Kurama himself doesn't have kcm.....that's Naruto's ability i don't know what you're talking about

That's because they have a link....again this has nothing to do with how strong Kurama is

8 gates guy is Low 5-B, Casual Juubi is High 6-A

8 gates guy >Juubito >Hashirama > Juubi

Putting Hashi and Juubito at 5-C doesn't ruin the scaling at all

 

[Dark649]

Madara was able to use the Susanoo without his eyes, but Obito was unable to do it even with the Rinnegan.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Also, @Omimi

Yeah, it's PIS on Madara not breaking Hashirama's Seal in edo.

 

[Dark649]

I disagree with putting with the 5-C+ upgrade.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Madara was able to use the Susanoo without his eyes, but Obito was unable to do it even with the Rinnegan.

We know he is capable of it, as shown through Kakashi. For whatever reason, that's just a writers Decision on Kishi's part. Like him taking away Kamui's Intange just to nerf Juubito. Obito with Susanoo + Kamui is Broken.

 

[LordWhis]

@Mindovin & Omini:

The Last Naruto is basically just 100% BSM Naruto.

We already know Base Hashirama > 100% BM Naruto.

Therefore, SM Hashirama > 100% BSM Naruto

I'm pretty sure that The Last Kurama being amped by 6 paths senjutsu or whatever is something we made up back when SM Hashirama & co were only High 6-C. The only Kurama who is amped by Six Paths Senjutsu is the avatar that Naruto forms in Six Paths Sage Mode which is completely different.

So, I hereby amend my previous statement to say that Sage Mode Madara with 1 Rinnegan is Atleast 5-C, Likely Higher.

 

[Omimi]

Help Please: What form was Naruto in when he & Sasuke hurt the Ten Tails together & also when they hurt Juubito together.

they didnt hurt Juubito because rsm user are immune to ninjutsu

 

[LordWhis]

Thank You my Friend !

 

[LordWhis]

@Omimi: So he was in KCM Mode ! Very interesting indeed !

 

[Omimi]

We already know Base Hashirama > 100% BM Naruto.


10000% disagree it was defined

Base Hashirama scale from 6-B prime kurama(prime kurama scale from BM) and High-jubi that all and he does not scale from BM nor BSM

 

[Dzhindzholia]

5C Hashi?Nope.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Mindovin & Omini:
The Last Naruto is basically just 100% BSM Naruto.

We already know Base Hashirama > 100% BM Naruto.

Therefore, SM Hashirama > 100% BSM Naruto

I'm pretty sure that The Last Kurama being amped by 6 paths senjutsu or whatever is something we made up back when SM Hashirama & co were only High 6-C. The only Kurama who is amped by Six Paths Senjutsu is the avatar that Naruto forms in Six Paths Sage Mode which is completely different.

So, I hereby amend my previous statement to say that Sage Mode Madara with 1 Rinnegan is Atleast 5-C, Likely Higher.

• The Last Naruto is 100% KCM, not BSM.

• Base Hashirama would ~ 100% Naruto.

• Sm Hashirama ~ 100% BSM

Please stop that. Base/SM Hashirama is only > 50% BM/BSM.

BTW, High 6-A to 5-C is vast. I disagree with the bump as it's an arbitrary assumption with no viable proof. And Revived SM Madara with 1 Rinne is 6-A.

 

[Omimi]

@lord

yes its KCM Mode

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I'm about to head into class right now, so i wont be able to responmd, but I know this will get out of hand....=_=

 

[LordWhis]

@TataHakai:

Actually, Kurama was in sage mode in The Last, that was actually my basis for 5-C+ Hashirama, if he was stronger in base then he should be stronger when both are in Sage Mode.

@Omimi & TFO: Not true at all, we scale Hashirama from the fact that when Naruto temporarily obtained 100% BM by joining Yin & Yang Kurama Hashirama noted that Naruto was almost as strong as he was (in base).

& High 6-A and 5-C are adjacent tiers & remember that Hashirama was High 6-C, not so long ago.

This finally proves juubito's destroying the world statement & solves the riddle of why juubidara wasn't shown to be hugely stronger than juubito that was nagging at my head for some time now.