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Naruto Part II Revisions (Multipliers/Calculations)
- Thread starter LordTracer
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- #242
I’d like to note that Sage Naruto would be High 7-A regardless of if you scale the Rasenshuriken to him or not, due to the multiplier of Sage Mode.
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Oh? What does base Naruto currently scale to?
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- #245
Baseline 7-A. He scales roughly to BoS Gaara, who’s chakra-infused sand that he uses for attacking/defending is stronger than the ordinary desert sand he used for his 99 megatons calc.
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That’s like saying just cause Kurama has a crap ton of chakra doesn’t mean he’s that strong. Gotta take into account that chakra amount and chakra control is what makes someone powerful. Even if Sasuke could barely pierce Ay, he was still able to (kind of) breach the defense so that should note something at least
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How so? I don't remember any power comparisons between the two of them from that early on.
Ah, just seen this:
> This might be a safer option compared to my original idea. Gaara is 7-B+. Deidara scales to Gaara. Sasori is stronger than Deidara. Sakura can damage Sasori and the Third Kazekage Puppet. BoS Naruto scales to Sakura. So, base Naruto (and everyone that scales to him) would be 7-B+.
Sakura can expliticly punch much, much harder than Naruto early on. He is shocked by her physical abilities during their sparring match with Kakashi.
Also, I question exactly how this scaling chain works involving durability? Deidara didn't tank Gaara's attack,s did he? And how do we know Sasori is more durable than him?
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Having Bijuu level chakra can maybe mean you have incredible stamina. It doesn't mean you possess physical scales to Bijuu or Bijuubombs. Kurama is literally a Bijuu himself.
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- #249
Okay, yeah, Naruto does pretty much directly say that Sakura is stronger than him at that point. But Kakashi is confident in holding both Naruto and Sakura off, meaning he should be at least comparable to Sakura in strength, and Naruto is stated to have surpassed Kakashi after completing the Rasenshuriken, and he could briefly restrain Kakashi during the Five Kage Summit arc. He can also survive the Chidori Current from Hebi Sasuke, who is stronger than Sakura. So while Naruto’s weaker than Sakura, he’s still at least on par with Kakashi, so not significantly weaker to the point that he doesn’t scale.
Deidara’s durability is kinda inconsistent, since he can tank his own bombs that are significantly superior to Gaara, to the point of one-shotting him, but Gaara could crush one of his arms. I don’t see why Sasori’s durability wouldn’t just scale to his own AP, there’s nothing that really says he’s a glass cannon.
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That still wouldn’t make sense given the fact that 3rd Raikage stalemated Hachibi and he has Bijuu lvl chakra....also don’t know how stamina plays a part in all this
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> But Kakashi is confident in holding both Naruto and Sakura off, meaning he should be at least comparable to Sakura in strength
Two people fighting side-by-side doesn't mean they're comparable in all aspects.
> and Naruto is stated to have surpassed Kakashi after completing the Rasenshuriken, and he could briefly restrain Kakashi during the Five Kage Summit arc.
This is noteworthy at least, though I'm sure that the former statement is mostly in reference to Naruto excelling at creating a new jutsu in the form of the Rasenshuriken which neither Minato or Kakashi could do.
> He can also survive the Chidori Current from Hebi Sasuke, who is stronger than Sakura.
A durability feat, though I'm not sure how quantifiable that is in terms of AP because it's not like he was striking them with it. He was shocking them all with electricity.
> Deidara’s durability is kinda inconsistent, since he can tank his own bombs that are significantly superior to Gaara, to the point of one-shotting him, but Gaara could crush one of his arms.
I think Deidara only "tanked" one of his bombs in the manga, and it was his smallest one which he threw at Sasuke as a distraction. Unless I'm mistaken on that.
> I don’t see why Sasori’s durability wouldn’t just scale to his own AP, there’s nothing that really says he’s a glass cannon.
I guess it depends on the context. The 3rd Kazekage's attacks wouldn't scale to his durability. His typical fighting style involves projectiles + poison. The statement from Deidara doesn't necessarily mean physical strength.
Two people fighting side-by-side doesn't mean they're comparable in all aspects.
> and Naruto is stated to have surpassed Kakashi after completing the Rasenshuriken, and he could briefly restrain Kakashi during the Five Kage Summit arc.
This is noteworthy at least, though I'm sure that the former statement is mostly in reference to Naruto excelling at creating a new jutsu in the form of the Rasenshuriken which neither Minato or Kakashi could do.
> He can also survive the Chidori Current from Hebi Sasuke, who is stronger than Sakura.
A durability feat, though I'm not sure how quantifiable that is in terms of AP because it's not like he was striking them with it. He was shocking them all with electricity.
> Deidara’s durability is kinda inconsistent, since he can tank his own bombs that are significantly superior to Gaara, to the point of one-shotting him, but Gaara could crush one of his arms.
I think Deidara only "tanked" one of his bombs in the manga, and it was his smallest one which he threw at Sasuke as a distraction. Unless I'm mistaken on that.
> I don’t see why Sasori’s durability wouldn’t just scale to his own AP, there’s nothing that really says he’s a glass cannon.
I guess it depends on the context. The 3rd Kazekage's attacks wouldn't scale to his durability. His typical fighting style involves projectiles + poison. The statement from Deidara doesn't necessarily mean physical strength.
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A3 also fought against 10000 enemies in 3 days straight. That is likely because he possessed enormous chakra reserves for being able to last that long without being collapsed until the last second. A3 fought and stalemated Gyuki. Sure but, he used the exact same type of attack that Sasuke used to cut off Gyuki's tail. And it was stated that he cut off all of its tails using his Hell Stab his strongest attack, which is a strong piercing attack. But I'm neutral about A3 Bijuu level and I think he is, but not sure about his son, A4.
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Wait my bad the one Sasuke stabbed was an Ay holding back but yeah I just wanted to bring that up doll just in case
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- Thread starter
- #254
That is true, but it means that Kakashi should at least be on the same level as Sakura and Naruto.
He survived being slammed into his own landmines.
Deidara doesn’t word it in a way where it can be interpreted as anything but strength though. He just says Sasori is stronger than he is. Granted, he says “probably,” so there isn’t too much of a gap between them, but Sasori is still stronger.
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> He survived being slammed into his own landmines.
He did not. You see him kicking the shuriken off of him then he appears from the clouds having avoided plumetting into the landmines by standing on another of his clay birds.
> Deidara doesn’t word it in a way where it can be interpreted as anything but strength though. He just says Sasori is stronger than he is. Granted, he says “probably,” so there isn’t too much of a gap between them, but Sasori is still stronger.
Then what exactly is Deidara's physical strength rated as then? Because is it is strength then it doesn't include his clay explosions.
He did not. You see him kicking the shuriken off of him then he appears from the clouds having avoided plumetting into the landmines by standing on another of his clay birds.
> Deidara doesn’t word it in a way where it can be interpreted as anything but strength though. He just says Sasori is stronger than he is. Granted, he says “probably,” so there isn’t too much of a gap between them, but Sasori is still stronger.
Then what exactly is Deidara's physical strength rated as then? Because is it is strength then it doesn't include his clay explosions.
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- #256
Why wouldn’t he be including his clay bombs, the only display of his strength that we get in the manga?
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- #257
Also I dunno if this means anything, but Chiyo mentions that the Third Kazekage can use the Iron Sand because of his physical constituation.
Also Sasori implies that his main body is more powerful than the Third Kazekage, so he should be 7-B+ anyways.
Also Sasori implies that his main body is more powerful than the Third Kazekage, so he should be 7-B+ anyways.
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Base Naruto could also briefly swap hands with a Deva path, and he could also overpower Kakashis rasengan just by adding a bit of wind chakra to his own rasengan. So Base Naruto being relative to Kakashi is not a problem.
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@LordTracer; I'm 90% sure that's just referring to Magnet Release, the Kekkei Genkai.
> Why wouldn’t he be including his clay bombs, the only display of his strength that we get in the manga?
That's my point. That he isn't just referring to physical strength / AP. Sasori is a more deadly fighter than he is.
> Why wouldn’t he be including his clay bombs, the only display of his strength that we get in the manga?
That's my point. That he isn't just referring to physical strength / AP. Sasori is a more deadly fighter than he is.
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- #260
Or... he’s just saying Sasori is stronger than his clay bombs. Because there’s no reason to assume otherwise.
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There's no reason to assume that too... You're assuming he's comparing Sasori's physicals to his own bombs for no good reason.
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I think there's enough evidence for at least Sasori's Iron Sand to scale.
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- #263
Except there is a good reason. It’s literally all we’ve seen from Deidara. Why exactly would he say Sasori is stronger than him if he meant his physical strength, something he never uses in combat? It requires way more assumptions to say he meant physical strength, or to say he meant something other than strength, as opposed to just taking what the statement blatantly says and saying Sasori is stronger than his clay bombs.
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I think the safest assumption would be to scale their attacks (Iron Sand and Clay bombs respectively), because neither of them are really physically inclined combatants. But the statement is pretty clear cut like LordTracer mentioned. There's no reason to assume Deidara wasn't referring to combat strength, because that's the conclusion that requires the least leaps in logic.
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"Stronger" =/= Physical Strength. That's the point I've been trying to make.
If you saw Deidara, and all you saw of him was the massive explosions he creates, then you'd conclude "He's pretty strong." But the strength you're referring to here is not his physical strength.
Likewise when Deidara says "Sasori is probably stronger than me", he's not saying "His punches are stronger than my explosions."
He could just be saying Sasori is a better / deadlier fighter than him.
@UchihaSlayer96; even if we did that, that gets us back to the original issue of Sasori's durability not scaling to that.
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- #266
That isn’t what the word stronger means though, and that would purely be your assumption.
Based on the actual statement, Sasori is stronger than Deidara’s clay bombs. It’s that simple. At the absolute least, only his main body would be stronger and the Hiruko/Third Kazekage wouldn’t, although the Third Kazekage would be 7-B+ regardless.
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@Damage3245
His physical durability? Sure. But since his sand can be used both offensively and defensively, it doesn't matter too much.
His physical durability? Sure. But since his sand can be used both offensively and defensively, it doesn't matter too much.
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Sorry but no. I will not simply accept this juggling to change the meaning of things. I am still in favor of the current scaling and have not changed my mind about it. The things you say are not facts, as everything is being questioned. I continue in favor of the current scaling.
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- #269
I still don’t see why Sasori’s durability wouldn’t scale to his AP, like 99% of characters on the wiki.
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Because for most of those characters, their durability is scaling from their physical AP using Newton's laws.
Durability does not automatically scale to AP without a reason.
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I also think a lot of hoops are being jumped unnecessarily, when the statement is so clear cut.
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- #273
Exactly. Deidara says Sasori is stronger than him, therefore, Sasori has higher AP than him. You can’t get much more blatant than that.
This is being drawn out way more than it needs to be. The Third Kazekage is at the least comparable to BoS Gaara, and therefore 7-A. Sasori’s main body is stronger, and therefore 7-A. Sakura shattered both of them, and is therefore 7-A. Even if you, for whatever reason, want to go opposite to the manga and say Deidara is stronger than Sasori, Sasori is still 7-A.
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Me too.
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I am with LordTracer too. Especially since sasori is not even human. He is a puppet.
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Guys, agreeing with each other in a circle and patting each other on the back is not an argument.
You're pretending like there is only a single interpretation of a "strength" statement that it means that Sasori's AP & Durability is better than Deidara's explosions. Things aren't always that simple.
You're pretending like there is only a single interpretation of a "strength" statement that it means that Sasori's AP & Durability is better than Deidara's explosions. Things aren't always that simple.
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- #278
You’re making an assumption that isn’t at all supported by the manga. Deidara says Sasori is stronger, therefore Sasori is stronger. Anything else would be a baseless assumption.
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"Stronger" does not necessarily mean higher AP. That's a fact.
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- #280
And you have literally no reason to assume it doesn’t mean higher AP here. So again, you’re just making an assumption that isn’t at all supported by the manga.
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