Naruto Part II Revisions (Multipliers/Calculations)

[M3X_2.0]

I will write some ratings from BoS

 

[M3X_2.0]

Can someone finish Deidara's ratings?

M3X/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[LordTracer]

Can someone finish Deidara's ratings?

M3X/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

Done.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Not sure if he has 7-A durability, Gaara crushed his arm

 

[LordTracer]

Not sure if he has 7-A durability, Gaara crushed his arm

True, but he could also tank his own explosions so idk. Maybe ‘Possibly 7-A’ or ‘Likely 7-A’ would be more suitable?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Can you link this feat?

 

[LordTracer]

Here you go.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Good feat, problem is that Gaara ****** with his arm, and we can't scale Gaara above Deidara bombs, I think

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah, that’s why I suggested ‘Possibly/Likely 7-A’ for his dura, since it is kinda inconsistent. Either that, or Gaara crushing his arm is just an outlier since Deidara later tanked a punch from (base) Hebi Sasuke, who would scale above Gaara.

 

[M3X_2.0]

How should Sakura and Naruto scale btw?

 

[LordTracer]

How should Sakura and Naruto scale btw?

Sakura scales to 7-A for damaging the Third Kazekage puppet and Sasori’s main body, and base Naruto would be comparable to her.

 

[M3X_2.0]

and why is Sasori 7-A?

 

[LordTracer]

Deidara stated that Sasori was stronger than him.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Hmm, I don't know if that's enough but I guess it works. We still need more imput tho

 

[LordTracer]

There’s also the Third Kazekage being stated to be the strongest Kazekage, and while I believe that’s partially an outlier since it would put him above Rasa, it should at least put him above BoS Gaara.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Indeed, I agree

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Even more support for the Bijuu being 7-A is the fact that Deidara defeated Isobu, and of course Hidan and Kakuzu beating Matatabi. So it looks like 7-A is quite consistent for the Early Shippuden characters.

 

[M3X_2.0]

@LordTracer you can edit the sandbox and put all the characters from that specific arc there if you want

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I'll add Sasori

 

[LordTracer]

I’ll do Sakura and Naruto then.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I've added Sasori.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Sasori durability justification shouldnt be like that, with Sakura. That would lead to circular scaling

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I don't remember any durability feats for him tbh, so what should I change it to?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Shouldnt the Iron Sand be at least comoarable to Gaara's normal sand?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Probably, especially because the 3rd's sand is supposed to be the greatest. It should be denser as well

 

[LordTracer]

I added Sakura and Naruto. I couldn’t think of any dura feats for Naruto, so I left that section blank.

 

[LordTracer]

I’ve gotta sleep now, it’s really late over here, so I’ll continue this discussion tomorrow.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Since Base Naruto is the same all over the manga, remove him from arc sections and try to create a section for him and Sasuke, since they don't depend of arcs to be scaled.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I also need to sleep, that's all for today

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Same here, let's continue tomorrow. Good night guys.

 

[Damage3245]

How the hell is there three pages of this already... Can somebody give me TL;DR before I dive into this?

EDIT:

Sage Mode Naruto's regular AP does not scale to his own Rasenshuriken. In his Sage Mode he could only create two of them at a time before completely expiring his Sage Mode.

Do you think if he only threw two punches or two Rasengans he would completely use up all his chakra?

There is also a massive difference in the effects of his Rasenshurikens compared to his regular attacks... Look at the difference between his Rasenshuriken utterly vaporizing one of Pain's bodies VS. his regular attacks which do significantly less damage.

EDIT2: I also saw a calc for calculating Pain's durability based on how far away he was from the Six-Tails Biju Bomb... but if you look at the chapter where that attack happened, the attack didn't directly hit him. It only grazed him then went past him to carve a huge hole out of Konoha.

EDIT3: Sage Mode Naruto has not tanked his own Rasenshuriken. The "enduring" part is about him not being harmed by the internal slicing part of it that damaged his chakra lines.

EDIT4: We also need to discuss the consistency of Naruto's Rasenshuriken being High 7-A, because none of his other Rasenshurikens have had that kind of huge explosion effect.

 

[Metalija]

There is also a massive difference in the effects of his Rasenshurikens compared to his regular attacks... Look at the difference between his Rasenshuriken utterly vaporizing one of Pain's bodies VS. his regular attacks which do significantly less damage.

It vaporised Pains bodies because it ignores durability.

EDIT2: I also saw a calc for calculating Pain's durability based on how far away he was from the Six-Tails Biju Bomb... but if you look at the chapter where that attack happened, the attack didn't directly hit him. It only grazed him then went past him to carve a huge hole out of Konoha.

Grazing him was enough.

EDIT3: Sage Mode Naruto has not tanked his own Rasenshuriken. The "enduring" part is about him not being harmed by the internal slicing part of it that damaged his chakra lines.

Even more impressive considering that FRS ignores durability.

EDIT4: We also need to discuss the consistency of Naruto's Rasenshuriken being High 7-A, because none of his other Rasenshurikens have had that kind of huge explosion effect.

This is an AoE fallacy and a lame attempt of downplay. FRS is FRS, and everyone agreed with a High 7-A calc, so stop focusing on calcs and focus on scaling instead.

 

[Kin201]

I don't think it vaporised Pain's bodies because it ignored durability. If that was really the case, then why didn't it vaporise Kakuzu's body, too?

 

[Damage3245]

@Metalija; the Rasenshuriken does not ignore durability like that. The cellular-cutting part of it is what negates duraiblity; not that is completely destroys whoever it touches.

> Grazing him was enough.

Err, so you agree he didn't tank it?

> Even more impressive considering that FRS ignores durability.

Okay, great, that still doesn't mean his durability should scale from the full value of it.

> This is an AoE fallacy and a lame attempt of downplay. FRS is FRS, and everyone agreed with a High 7-A calc, so stop focusing on calcs and focus on scaling instead.

No, it isn't. The fact is that showing of the Rasenshuriken is heavily inconsistent compared to all of the other times it has been used.

This is the thread for calcs... why on Earth would I not be focusing on calcs here?

 

[The_Alxhemist]

3 Pages already?
Also why isn't the Sakura Hiden V2 Multiplier there? Kido got amped by orders of magnitudes and his justu had an amp of "several orders of magnitude" that gives us a 100x increase for him and a 1000x increase for his justu.

 

[Damage3245]

3 Pages already?
Also why isn't the Sakura Hiden V2 Multiplier there? Kido got amped by orders of magnitudes and his justu had an amp of "several orders of magnitude" that gives us a 100x increase for him and a 1000x increase for his justu.

It is a ridiculous outlier.

 

[The_Alxhemist]

It is a ridiculous outlier.

That's not an argument.

In a thread a week back, there was a discussion of Naruto's AP jumping thousands of times which you yourself commented on. It's not an outlier, it's a valid multiplier that had a clear effect on both Kido and his Justu's

 

[Damage3245]

> However, a good statement alone is not enough to get a high multiplier accepted. The amount of extra evidence one has to provide to get larger multipliers accepted is proportional to the size of the multiplier. For lower multipliers, like things much less than times 100, evidence can take the form of a clear increase in combat strength against priorly equal or superior opponents. For higher multipliers, like times 100 and above, the importance of stronger evidence, such as feats displaying power of a similar magnitude as the value the multiplier points to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story, and a higher amount of evidence becomes increasingly necessary.

You need more evidence for it.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Sage Mode Naruto's regular AP does not scale to his own Rasenshuriken. In his Sage Mode he could only create two of them at a time before completely expiring his Sage Mode.

Do you think if he only threw two punches or two Rasengans he would completely use up all his chakra?

That's an issue of stamina and the form's time limit, not so much it's AP/Durability. Punches or Rasengans don't expend through as much chakra as the FRS, so unless we accept that Chakra amount=AP/Dura, then this argument just doesn't work imo. This is merely a stamina related limitation.

 

[The_Alxhemist]

> For higher multipliers, like times 100 and above, the importance of stronger evidence, such as feats displaying power of a similar magnitude as the value the multiplier points to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story, and a higher amount of evidence becomes increasingly necessary.

You need more evidence for it.

So it's a matter of supporting evidence? Then that's where Naruto the source of the amp comes into play. One look at his AP profile shows the vast difference from KCM to BM.