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Fair. As long as no one's scaling off of KCM2 smacking Bijuudama's, I'm good
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Naruto Major Overhaul Part 2: Battle Tendency
- Thread starter M3X_2.0
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It’s still technically scaling off of that, but it’s not saying non-exploding Bijuudama = exploded ones. It’s non-exploded Bijuudama being superior to a Bijuu’s physicals.
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I'm sure it is based on something, but can I check what that reason is?
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I believe it was some statement from one of the novels. UchihaSlayer had posted it in some thread before I think
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We're gonna need it
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Unlike Jiraya, Naruto achieved a perfectly balanced Sage Mode, which means that he got a superior amp. So there should be more supporting evidence that Base Naruto was > Base Jiraya.
The statement of Sasuke attributing his win over Orochimaru to Orochimaru's illness:
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That's fair, but that's not the same thing as Healthy Orochimaru = CS2 Sasuke.
Sasuke was stomping weak Orochimaru even without CS2.
I agree. There should be more for that.
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Anyways, here’s a bunch of scans missing from the OP:
Minato is implied to be able to beat Orochimaru.
Sasuke stating that he was able to beat Orochimaru because he was ill.
KN0 Naruto defeating 30% Itachi.
KN0 punching Deidara, with Deidara only having a bloody lip afterwards.
Deidara stating that Sasori is stronger than him.
Sakura demolishing the Third Kazekage, Sasori implies that his main body is stronger, and Sakura cracking his main body’s cheek.
Chiyo clashes with base Naruto.
Prime Chiyo and Prime Hanzō fought several times.
Minato is implied to be able to beat Orochimaru.
Sasuke stating that he was able to beat Orochimaru because he was ill.
KN0 Naruto defeating 30% Itachi.
KN0 punching Deidara, with Deidara only having a bloody lip afterwards.
Deidara stating that Sasori is stronger than him.
Sakura demolishing the Third Kazekage, Sasori implies that his main body is stronger, and Sakura cracking his main body’s cheek.
Chiyo clashes with base Naruto.
Prime Chiyo and Prime Hanzō fought several times.
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I talked to UchihaSlayer about this a while ago, but it is never actually stated that perfect Sage Mode grants a bigger multiplier than imperfect Sage Mode, just that it’s better at gathering nature energy.
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How do we know this applies to the full Biju themselves?
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There is no reasons it shouldnt.
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I can't think of any reasons it would either.
I'd like at least a little supporting evidence from the manga itself considering it seems quite significant.
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Because it’s a statement made about a jinchūriki? Which, y’know, the Bijuu are superior to?
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Also if you want manga support, Kurama’s Bijuudama (without exploding) could destroy Hashirama’s Wood Dragon that was physically restraining him, and it’s stated both by Madara and the databook that the Dragon can restrain Kurama.
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Dragon was weakening him...
Same bijuu's arm slashes could rip apart the dragon...
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Yeah I dunno what to tell you, the databook says it can tie and restrain Kurama, and Madara used it for the same purpose during the Fourth Shinobi World War.
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Same databook says in bold that it suppresses superhuman powers...
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I mean Naruto smacking away 5 bijuudamas was a significant event else it would not have been seen as impressive.
And there is nothing contradicting it.
This is also supported by the Juubi literally finger flicking Gyuki's bijuu dama.
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Then Kurama’s Bijuudama also would’ve been weakened, so it still shows that unexploded Bijuudama > Bijuu physicals.
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Thats not exactly a counter, both the bijuudama and the tailed beasts physicals are weakened. And as we know both have been seen to be comparable to each other(at least uncharged ones). Logical assumption being both are weakened by the same ratio anyway.
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This doesn't make sense...
The Bijuudama wouldn't be weakened to the same extent since it's working off of KE while the Bijuu's getting their energy drained.
Also, I have an issue.
Every Unexploded Bijuudama > Bijuu's Physicals > Second Strongest Bijuu's Bijuudama..?
But Exploded Bijuudama > Non Exploded Bijuudama
Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
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How does it not make sense? If Kurama’s powers are suppressed, then his Bijuudama would obviously be suppressed as well.
You’d have to prove the Bijuudama is just as strong as it normally would be, which the series never states.
They aren’t scaling above Gyūki’s Bijuudama though. Also Gyūki is only stated to be the second strongest Bijuu by Kurama, who thinks number of tails = strength, even though the 2-7 Tails are pretty much equal to each other and Shukaku actually has better feats than them.
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? The KE is dependent on the power of the bijuu in the first place, if the bijuu is getting drained the speed of the bijuudama would be reduced as well.
Who says this?
It is simply Bijuu physicals = Unexploded ~< Exploded regardless of who the bijuu is. In fact Kurama's statement is disputed by the Bijuu themselves. The only sure thing is that he is the strongest.
You are the one making it make nosense.
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I concede on the point of the bijuudama not getting drained.
They scale off of Gyuki's dura which "tanked" his Bijuudama.
And Tracer was the one who said Unexploded >Exploded Physicals
And the unexploded Bijuudamas are most definitely weaker than exploded, since Hashi's golem could catch an unexploded bijuudama but gets blown up when it explodes.
Exploded Bijuudama > Unexploded Bijuudama > Bijuu's Physicals > Bee's Exploded Bijuudama
Seems very wrong
They scale off of Gyuki's dura which "tanked" his Bijuudama.
And Tracer was the one who said Unexploded >
And the unexploded Bijuudamas are most definitely weaker than exploded, since Hashi's golem could catch an unexploded bijuudama but gets blown up when it explodes.
Exploded Bijuudama > Unexploded Bijuudama > Bijuu's Physicals > Bee's Exploded Bijuudama
Seems very wrong
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Uh, no, I never said that. I said unexploded > the Bijuu’s physicals.
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My bad.
Same thing still applies
Same thing still applies
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Gyūki’s durability would downscale from his Bijuudama, and then the Bijuu scale to that since the Five-Tails and Four-Tails could harm him.
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He did tank it, not sure why in quotes lol but he was definitely worse for wear than when taking bijuu attacks.
There is a difference but it is not huge is the point, essentially they are relative with exploded being even higher.
No it is Bijuu physicals < unexploded < exploded
Bee is not above his bijudama while he did tank it as I said above he was definitely more hurt than with any other attacks.
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So from what I'm seeing.
Exploded Bijuudama > Non Exploded Bijuudama > Bee's Physicals i Bee's Bijuudama
Correct?
Exploded Bijuudama > Non Exploded Bijuudama > Bee's Physicals i Bee's Bijuudama
Correct?
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It’s more like: B’s Exploded Bijuudama >= B’s physicals = other Bijuu’s physicals, and non-exploded Bijuudamas would fit somewhere in between the physicals and exploded Bijuudama.
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Thanks for explaining. Should be cool then
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Bee's physicals are capable of tanking his bijuudamas but just barely. As seen compared to him tanking his bijuu damas and him being hit by the tailed beasts physically.
Wait I just remembered when Naruto was fighting Kurama in his seal Gyuki blocked a bijuu dama with his hand (we even see the damage caused just by it passing by), which then exploded in hand as well (anime shows this better).
Edit: Welp useless comment is useless.
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Naruto's miniature Bijuudama is 6-C based on what?
When Naruto had to match the Biju Bombs of the other Tailed Beasts, he had to create a Biju Bomb equally as large as theirs.
So if this is a miniature version, there doesn't seem to be a good reason to assume this attack is 6-C.
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The reflection oneshotted his clone. (I know clones go poof decently easily but that is only if they are weaker than the enemy or what attacked them).
Also tbh bijuudama have a weird effect of bigger is more powerful but can also be squeezed down for more power (like the rasengan actually, which is based off of BBs).
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Also someone that I completely forgot about while helping make the OP: EMS Sasuke. Iirc, he was stated to be stronger than Orochimaru (I’ll try to find that statement), and he was portrayed as comparable to Naruto and Sakura, so he should be High 7-A.
KCM2 Naruto in general is 6-C for reasons that were discussed earlier.
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Naruto couldn't make a Bijuudama in KCM but could make the tiny Bijuudama sized rasengan thing.
This shouldn't be a good reason.
I know it's based off of something else, but if it's from that reasoning, I disagree
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Honestly I could be wrong but after being friends with Kurama and obtaining KCM2 I thought that he could make a bijuudama for sure.
Its not I was just headcanoning cause it was interesting to note.
The real reasoning is for the reflection one shotting the clone I believe.
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Poofing a clone doesn't seem like that noteworthy of a feat. What kind of durability does it even have anyway?
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He could, but it's stated that he needed to be in full Tailed Beast Mode for it.
Gotcha
I was explained the reason in a previous thread.
Naruto's Striking > Unexploded Bijuudama > Bijuu's Physicals
So then Madara apparently took Naruto's striking on top of the Mini Bijuudama
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