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Which is what I meant.Rocker1189 said:
The statements are: he gave them SP power and the seal. Our ratings are literally something we made up because...it's not even actually stated that he gave each of them half of his chakra.
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Naruto God Tiers Downgrade (Continued)
- Thread starter TataHakai
- Start date
- Status
The statements are: he gave them SP power and the seal. Our ratings are literally something we made up because...it's not even actually stated that he gave each of them half of his chakra.
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This.Rocker1189 said:
They're his reincarnations, so them getting Indra and Ashura's power is.....self explanatory.
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He's giving the SP power away to 2 individuals.Kepekley23 said:
Pretty sure, Occams Razor, thats splitting into 2. Unless we're gonna make up Hagoromo showing favortisim to one or the other.
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Though if you think about it, they did come very close to sealing Kaguya once when Sauce used Amenotejikara before she swapped to the ice dimension, and she made no mental or verbal comment / observation about chakra being focused into the seals, from what I remember at least. She had the Byakugan activated at that point, right? The final moment could be to connote that it was the end for Kaguya.
As well, Madara didn't note anything special about their arms when he was about to get sealed and the Rinnegan can see chakra flow as shown when Madara detected what Gai was about to do, but obviously to a more limited extent compared to the Byakugan. Plus both Madara and Kaguya automatically have decent chakra sensing by virtue of SPS.
They never note anything when NaruSasu almost seal them on two separate occasions, even with their dojutsu activated and sensory abilities. It's left for right when Kaguya is guaranteed to be sealed. Seems suspect, but I could of course be looking to much into this or missing something.
As well, Madara didn't note anything special about their arms when he was about to get sealed and the Rinnegan can see chakra flow as shown when Madara detected what Gai was about to do, but obviously to a more limited extent compared to the Byakugan. Plus both Madara and Kaguya automatically have decent chakra sensing by virtue of SPS.
They never note anything when NaruSasu almost seal them on two separate occasions, even with their dojutsu activated and sensory abilities. It's left for right when Kaguya is guaranteed to be sealed. Seems suspect, but I could of course be looking to much into this or missing something.
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He's giving the SP power away to 2 individuals.
And...nowhere is it stated he gave each of them large portions of his chaka to begin with. He gave them the seals and some abilities. The "majority of chakra" he gave them that people are talking about was specifically the Kaguya seal.
And...nowhere is it stated he gave each of them large portions of his chaka to begin with. He gave them the seals and some abilities. The "majority of chakra" he gave them that people are talking about was specifically the Kaguya seal.
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than how are u going explain to there feat against kaguya and mom who >>5-B hagoromo even jubi madara should be > 5-B hagoromo reasonKepekley23 said:
100% jubi>5-B hagoromo+hamura
madaras jubi missng only half kurama even if i highball it it still wont be more then 10%
and portion of biju chakra so lets add another 10%
80% jubi still > 5-B hagoromo
also there 5-B didnt came from only hagoromo so it wont go unless kaguya and momo become low5-B
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- Thread starter
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He gave them an equal amount of chakra to each other, and after that he didn't even have enough chakra to use a simple summoning jutsuKepekley23 said:
So he gave away all if not nigh all his chakra, and again nowhere is it ever stated that the "power" he gave them when not used interchangeably with the word "jutsu" is specifically the chibaku tensei
The bold part is important since it's a part of Imade taking words out of context.
The power he gave them is power that they kept beyond the sealing, though they did use that power which is now their own, to seal Kaguya, they kept that power AFTER the war, that was Hagoromo's intention when handing them the power, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered to ask Sasuke what his plan to do with it after the war is before handing him that power.
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Kep my hero
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Which is also something never stated or implied. This was brought up last thread and heavily countered by multiple people.Kepekley23 said:
Besides, Naruto and Sasuke got stronger once meeting Hagoromo. Giving people hax cannot boost your strength and Madara would have easily one shotted the both of them if this was the case. But obviously, thats not what happened.
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Oh I agreed. Unfortunately i had to say this again. Cause ya know, could of been like if you agree with my rebuttal change your vote or nah? Now it looks like we had bigger disagreement than agreed merely because a reset
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""Yes, Sasuke naturally awakened the Rinnegan. You need Indra and Ashura Chakra to do it, Sasuke had both before meeting Hagoromo."
Yes the databook has it's inconsistencies but Sasuke got Hashirama's chakra FAR before meeting Hagoromo and yet only got the rinnegan after receiving Hagoromo's power AND the databook tells us Hagoromo gave him the rinnegan? Yes let's go with what you say and not Kishimoto
Except having Hashirama's power doesn't instantly give you a rinnegan, it takes decades as it did with Madara, not sure why i need to repeat this but
"" From the Rikudou Sennin, he awakened the Rinnegan and the key to the seal…""
From the sage of six paths is where Sasuke got the rinnegan from, the fact that he got it instantly makes more sense this way since we know Hashirama's method takes decades, whereas directly from Hagoromo is instant.
You Need Ashura and Indra Chakra to Awaken the Rinnega
Your point here is in denial. Hagoromo is the one who reveals to us how the Rinnegan is naturally awakened:
"He was so obsessed with power that he stole some of Hashirama's. Which in short, caused the merging of part of Ashura's Chakra with Indra's Chakra and result in the derivation of my own Chakra's power. That's right, the awakening of the Rinnegan."
Sasuke naturally awakened the Rinnegan, he had his own Indra Chakra and received Ashura Chakra from Hashirama.
This point is really up for debate: Rinnegan = Ashura Chakra + Indra Chakra.
Sasuke had both before meeting Hagoromo.
Something that can Hagoromo could have done is mutate Sasuke's natural Rinnegan. Sasuke met the requirements for a natural Rinnegan, but his was a unique Rinnegan as he had one Rinnegan instead of two that looked like a Rinne-Sharingan. So Hagoromo could have changed the Rinnegan, but he did not grant Sasuke a Rinnegan.
""Your point falls apart at the start since we know Naruto awakened Six Paths Senjutsu naturally and Sasuke awakened the Rinnegan naturally." Why do you keep repeating this? We have databook statements that say they didn't awaken it naturally, you cannot
Naruto Awakened Six Paths Senjutsu (Something Madara Had)
The Awakened Rinnegan and Awakened Six Paths Senjutsu are Needed
I'm talking about Six Paths Senjutsu, you brought a databook statement about Six Paths Sage Mode. Understand that those aren't the same things.
Six Paths Senjutsu is awakened via having the Chakra of the 9 Bijuu, it's why Madara literally says he also has Six Paths Senjutsu like Naruto as Madara had the 9 Bijuu Chakra.
You keep linking Six Paths Sage Mode's Databook Entry when I'm talking about Six Paths Senjutsu.
Six Paths Senjutsu =/= Six Paths Sage Mode.
No one except Hagoromo and Naruto have Six Paths Sage Mode. Madara, Obito, Hagoromo and Naruto all had Six Paths Senjutsu since the requirements for Six Paths Senjutsu is the Chakra of the 9 Bijuu as Hagoromo reveals.
So yes, Naruto naturally awakened Six Paths Senjutsu. He had the Chakra of the 9 Bijuu and continued to have the Chakra of the 9 Bijuu even in the future during Boruto.
""however, what's in contention is what Hagoromo distributed to them, what was naturally awakened and what Chakra was meant for what."
Again, Hagoromo repeateadly says the power isn't only meant for the Chibaku tensei, UNLESS you want to propose the headcanon that he also gave Ashura only power to perform a chibaku tensei when he makes a direct comparison to his distrubution of power between naruto and sasuke and ashura and indra
Please read this specific scan carefully since you don't seem to understand the exact meaning of Hagoromo's distrubution of power.
This was all after the sealing by the way, so the Seal argument doesn't work here.
Ashura and Indra Never Received Power from Hagoromo
This scan you linked doesn't tell us anything given what we know.
For starters, Hagoromo didn't bequeath power to Indra nor Ashura in the past.
Ashura and Indra were never given power from Hagoromo and Hagoromo admits this himself when talking about their history.
Indra was born with immense power and never worked with others, he achieved greater heights by working alone and being born special.
Ashura was born a dunce and couldn't really utilize his powers. However, per Hagoromo's own words, Ashura gains power by working with others and Indra was born with his powers:
"Elder brother Indra possessed strong ocular powers and senses from birth... he always did everything by himself, leaning only on his own strength and came to understand that his powers were different and special... On the other hand, nothing ever went well for little brother Ashura from the time he was small and he couldn't do anything all on his own. In order to attain the same power as his older brother he always needed the cooperation of others in addition to his own effort."
Kaguya's Byakugan Sees Immense Chakra in Their Seals
Black Zetsu Reveals That Hagoromo Bequeathed a Powerful Seal
That Power is Located in their Hands in their Seals
"While struggling through training, the power of bodily Chakra awakened within him and he attained power rivaling his brother's."
Also, it is revealed to us what Hagoromo had given to Naruto and Sasuke throughout their fight with Kaguya:
No one is denying that Naruto and Sasuke came back from Hagoromo with additional powerups, but this was due to naturally awakening the Rinnegan for Sasuke and Six Paths Senjutsu for Naruto.
What you can't prove and provide evidence for is that Hagoromo evenly split his 200zt amount of Chakra into Naruto and Sasuke evenly for anything besides the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei.
There is not a single piece of evidence that Hagoromo split his Chakra in half for Naruto and Sasuke to use. The only thing we have is that Hagoromo gave Chakra to Naruto and Sasuke and that the massive amount of Chakra is located in their hands. That's it.
""Also in chapter 690, as soon as Naruto and Sasuke use the seals on Kaguya, the seals disappear from their hands and immediately return back to Hagoromo. The seals given to Naruto and Sasuke by Hagoromo meant for the Chibaku Tensei returned back to Hagoromo after the Chakra for the seal was used on Kaguya."'''If Hagoromo's chakra disappeared after the seal then why does Naruto still have SOSP mode? It was GIVEN to him by Hagoromo via giving Naruto his power, if Hagoromo ONLY gave chakra to Naruto for the seal then why didn't the power disappear once the chakra giving him the power did? It literally makes no sense , unless Naruto kept the chakra from Hagoromo beyond the fight which literally everything including Hagoromo's words himself state.
Sage of Six Paths Mode was given to him by Hagoromo, it's a mode of heightened awareness and better Chakra control. It increases his speed to a level that matches Madara as stated in the databook.
That's it.
Naruto maintains Six Paths powers due to still retaining Six Paths Senjutsu, to retain that he must have the Chakra of the 9 Bijuu, which he still does and it's further extrapolated upon in Shikamaru Hiden:
"The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who'd taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage's power even now."
Naruto and Sasuke both kept their Six Path powers and the Rinnegan respectively as they awakened their powers naturally.
""The issue was the incorrect belief that Hagoromo evenly split his 200zt Chakra into Sasuke and Naruto. That was false, most of Hagoromo's Chakra went into the seals as it's shown, stated and proven to us,"
Except Hagoromo himself says he gave them half his powers, absolutely nothing indicates "most" of it went to the seal, you are literally going off 1 page where their hands are glowing and that's it whereas i've given tons of scans AFTER the sealing where hagoromo says he gave them half his chakra each, the fact that Hagoromo says
"I too want to make the future better, this time i gave both of them the power" is literally the biggest indicator that the power isn't solely for the seal, but far beyond that which again is proven by Naruto keeping the SOSP Mode
This is literally false. Hagoromo never says he gave each of them half of his entire Chakra.
You literally can't prove that. That alone is why the 5-B ratings are false.
Hagoromo Doesn't Have a lot of Chakra At the Moment
All we know is that he gave them a lot of Chakra as Hagoromo himself admits he doesn't have massive Chakra after talking to Naruto and Sasuke.
Plus the fact that Kaguya reveals to us that Naruto and Sasuke have massive amounts of Chakra located in their seals.
Even worse, Hagoromo still had Chakra after granting Chakra to Naruto and Sasuke. Which means we can't even say he split his Chakra evenly onto them.
This is already enough information to prove that Hagoromo didn't distribute his 200zt Chakra directly into them evenly. He distributed a lot of it into the seals as Kaguya saw and he didn't distribute all of his own Chakra as he still had Chakra leftover.
Yes the databook has it's inconsistencies but Sasuke got Hashirama's chakra FAR before meeting Hagoromo and yet only got the rinnegan after receiving Hagoromo's power AND the databook tells us Hagoromo gave him the rinnegan? Yes let's go with what you say and not Kishimoto
Except having Hashirama's power doesn't instantly give you a rinnegan, it takes decades as it did with Madara, not sure why i need to repeat this but
"" From the Rikudou Sennin, he awakened the Rinnegan and the key to the seal…""
From the sage of six paths is where Sasuke got the rinnegan from, the fact that he got it instantly makes more sense this way since we know Hashirama's method takes decades, whereas directly from Hagoromo is instant.
You Need Ashura and Indra Chakra to Awaken the Rinnega
Your point here is in denial. Hagoromo is the one who reveals to us how the Rinnegan is naturally awakened:
"He was so obsessed with power that he stole some of Hashirama's. Which in short, caused the merging of part of Ashura's Chakra with Indra's Chakra and result in the derivation of my own Chakra's power. That's right, the awakening of the Rinnegan."
Sasuke naturally awakened the Rinnegan, he had his own Indra Chakra and received Ashura Chakra from Hashirama.
This point is really up for debate: Rinnegan = Ashura Chakra + Indra Chakra.
Sasuke had both before meeting Hagoromo.
Something that can Hagoromo could have done is mutate Sasuke's natural Rinnegan. Sasuke met the requirements for a natural Rinnegan, but his was a unique Rinnegan as he had one Rinnegan instead of two that looked like a Rinne-Sharingan. So Hagoromo could have changed the Rinnegan, but he did not grant Sasuke a Rinnegan.
""Your point falls apart at the start since we know Naruto awakened Six Paths Senjutsu naturally and Sasuke awakened the Rinnegan naturally." Why do you keep repeating this? We have databook statements that say they didn't awaken it naturally, you cannot
Naruto Awakened Six Paths Senjutsu (Something Madara Had)
The Awakened Rinnegan and Awakened Six Paths Senjutsu are Needed
I'm talking about Six Paths Senjutsu, you brought a databook statement about Six Paths Sage Mode. Understand that those aren't the same things.
Six Paths Senjutsu is awakened via having the Chakra of the 9 Bijuu, it's why Madara literally says he also has Six Paths Senjutsu like Naruto as Madara had the 9 Bijuu Chakra.
You keep linking Six Paths Sage Mode's Databook Entry when I'm talking about Six Paths Senjutsu.
Six Paths Senjutsu =/= Six Paths Sage Mode.
No one except Hagoromo and Naruto have Six Paths Sage Mode. Madara, Obito, Hagoromo and Naruto all had Six Paths Senjutsu since the requirements for Six Paths Senjutsu is the Chakra of the 9 Bijuu as Hagoromo reveals.
So yes, Naruto naturally awakened Six Paths Senjutsu. He had the Chakra of the 9 Bijuu and continued to have the Chakra of the 9 Bijuu even in the future during Boruto.
""however, what's in contention is what Hagoromo distributed to them, what was naturally awakened and what Chakra was meant for what."
Again, Hagoromo repeateadly says the power isn't only meant for the Chibaku tensei, UNLESS you want to propose the headcanon that he also gave Ashura only power to perform a chibaku tensei when he makes a direct comparison to his distrubution of power between naruto and sasuke and ashura and indra
Please read this specific scan carefully since you don't seem to understand the exact meaning of Hagoromo's distrubution of power.
This was all after the sealing by the way, so the Seal argument doesn't work here.
Ashura and Indra Never Received Power from Hagoromo
This scan you linked doesn't tell us anything given what we know.
For starters, Hagoromo didn't bequeath power to Indra nor Ashura in the past.
Ashura and Indra were never given power from Hagoromo and Hagoromo admits this himself when talking about their history.
Indra was born with immense power and never worked with others, he achieved greater heights by working alone and being born special.
Ashura was born a dunce and couldn't really utilize his powers. However, per Hagoromo's own words, Ashura gains power by working with others and Indra was born with his powers:
"Elder brother Indra possessed strong ocular powers and senses from birth... he always did everything by himself, leaning only on his own strength and came to understand that his powers were different and special... On the other hand, nothing ever went well for little brother Ashura from the time he was small and he couldn't do anything all on his own. In order to attain the same power as his older brother he always needed the cooperation of others in addition to his own effort."
Kaguya's Byakugan Sees Immense Chakra in Their Seals
Black Zetsu Reveals That Hagoromo Bequeathed a Powerful Seal
That Power is Located in their Hands in their Seals
"While struggling through training, the power of bodily Chakra awakened within him and he attained power rivaling his brother's."
Also, it is revealed to us what Hagoromo had given to Naruto and Sasuke throughout their fight with Kaguya:
- Kaguya reveals to us that they have immense Chakra in their dominant hands where the seal is located.
- Black Zetsu reveals to us that the reincarnation of Ashura and Indra (Naruto and Sasuke) received a powerful seal from Hagoromo.
- This seal is revealed to be the ones located in their hands and the seal is a powerful version of the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei.
No one is denying that Naruto and Sasuke came back from Hagoromo with additional powerups, but this was due to naturally awakening the Rinnegan for Sasuke and Six Paths Senjutsu for Naruto.
What you can't prove and provide evidence for is that Hagoromo evenly split his 200zt amount of Chakra into Naruto and Sasuke evenly for anything besides the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei.
There is not a single piece of evidence that Hagoromo split his Chakra in half for Naruto and Sasuke to use. The only thing we have is that Hagoromo gave Chakra to Naruto and Sasuke and that the massive amount of Chakra is located in their hands. That's it.
""Also in chapter 690, as soon as Naruto and Sasuke use the seals on Kaguya, the seals disappear from their hands and immediately return back to Hagoromo. The seals given to Naruto and Sasuke by Hagoromo meant for the Chibaku Tensei returned back to Hagoromo after the Chakra for the seal was used on Kaguya."'''If Hagoromo's chakra disappeared after the seal then why does Naruto still have SOSP mode? It was GIVEN to him by Hagoromo via giving Naruto his power, if Hagoromo ONLY gave chakra to Naruto for the seal then why didn't the power disappear once the chakra giving him the power did? It literally makes no sense , unless Naruto kept the chakra from Hagoromo beyond the fight which literally everything including Hagoromo's words himself state.
Sage of Six Paths Mode was given to him by Hagoromo, it's a mode of heightened awareness and better Chakra control. It increases his speed to a level that matches Madara as stated in the databook.
That's it.
Naruto maintains Six Paths powers due to still retaining Six Paths Senjutsu, to retain that he must have the Chakra of the 9 Bijuu, which he still does and it's further extrapolated upon in Shikamaru Hiden:
"The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who'd taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage's power even now."
Naruto and Sasuke both kept their Six Path powers and the Rinnegan respectively as they awakened their powers naturally.
""The issue was the incorrect belief that Hagoromo evenly split his 200zt Chakra into Sasuke and Naruto. That was false, most of Hagoromo's Chakra went into the seals as it's shown, stated and proven to us,"
Except Hagoromo himself says he gave them half his powers, absolutely nothing indicates "most" of it went to the seal, you are literally going off 1 page where their hands are glowing and that's it whereas i've given tons of scans AFTER the sealing where hagoromo says he gave them half his chakra each, the fact that Hagoromo says
"I too want to make the future better, this time i gave both of them the power" is literally the biggest indicator that the power isn't solely for the seal, but far beyond that which again is proven by Naruto keeping the SOSP Mode
This is literally false. Hagoromo never says he gave each of them half of his entire Chakra.
You literally can't prove that. That alone is why the 5-B ratings are false.
Hagoromo Doesn't Have a lot of Chakra At the Moment
All we know is that he gave them a lot of Chakra as Hagoromo himself admits he doesn't have massive Chakra after talking to Naruto and Sasuke.
Plus the fact that Kaguya reveals to us that Naruto and Sasuke have massive amounts of Chakra located in their seals.
Even worse, Hagoromo still had Chakra after granting Chakra to Naruto and Sasuke. Which means we can't even say he split his Chakra evenly onto them.
This is already enough information to prove that Hagoromo didn't distribute his 200zt Chakra directly into them evenly. He distributed a lot of it into the seals as Kaguya saw and he didn't distribute all of his own Chakra as he still had Chakra leftover.
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IMade makes sense here.
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1 min after, clearly did not read it.
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Actually, i'm a very fast reader.
Now stop derailing and try debunk GodMades post
Now stop derailing and try debunk GodMades post
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Stop derailing the thread. Thank you.
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Im going to let Taka deal with majority of this as im sure he intends to argue back against this. However, the last bit of your reply is something im going to counter on my own.
>You literally cannot prove that
Actually, this is the other way around. It's your burden of proof to prove that Naruto and Sasuke weren't being given even amounts of chakra from hagoromo. Which, in itself, makes no sense whatsoever in the situation they are in. Besides the fact that this is assuming Hagoromo has favortisim for one over the other, for some reason, why would Hagoromo not give them an even amount of power? He clearly gave them this power in the first place so that they can battle and seal Kaguya. Not giving them an even split amount would lower their chances of success instead of increase them. Hagoromo obviously doesnt want one or the other to struggle in their predicament, so there's no reason to believe he didnt give them an even amount of chakra.
>Plus the fact that Kaguya reveals to us that Naruto and Sasuke have massive amounts of Chakra located in their seals.
If your talking about her noticing their dominant hands when looking at their chakra network via Byakugan, I already countered this above in a huge reply. Kaguya never does this. She simply notices that both have the seals in her hands, that is it.
>Even worse, Hagoromo still had Chakra after granting Chakra to Naruto and Sasuke. Which means we can't even say he split his Chakra evenly onto them.
Where was this actually proven? Because your scan at the end absolutely doesnt. Him saying "which I dont have right now" doesnt suddenly equate to "I have chakra, just not a lot".
Plus, if I remember correctly, Hagoromo in the war is supposed to be just a dead spirit right? If that is the case, why would he need chakra? Especially since it's been widley shown before that using up all your chakra doesnt mean anything except you cannot use jutsu. And for obvious reason.
Nothing here proves Hagoromo had chakra left. At all.
>You literally cannot prove that
Actually, this is the other way around. It's your burden of proof to prove that Naruto and Sasuke weren't being given even amounts of chakra from hagoromo. Which, in itself, makes no sense whatsoever in the situation they are in. Besides the fact that this is assuming Hagoromo has favortisim for one over the other, for some reason, why would Hagoromo not give them an even amount of power? He clearly gave them this power in the first place so that they can battle and seal Kaguya. Not giving them an even split amount would lower their chances of success instead of increase them. Hagoromo obviously doesnt want one or the other to struggle in their predicament, so there's no reason to believe he didnt give them an even amount of chakra.
>Plus the fact that Kaguya reveals to us that Naruto and Sasuke have massive amounts of Chakra located in their seals.
If your talking about her noticing their dominant hands when looking at their chakra network via Byakugan, I already countered this above in a huge reply. Kaguya never does this. She simply notices that both have the seals in her hands, that is it.
>Even worse, Hagoromo still had Chakra after granting Chakra to Naruto and Sasuke. Which means we can't even say he split his Chakra evenly onto them.
Where was this actually proven? Because your scan at the end absolutely doesnt. Him saying "which I dont have right now" doesnt suddenly equate to "I have chakra, just not a lot".
Plus, if I remember correctly, Hagoromo in the war is supposed to be just a dead spirit right? If that is the case, why would he need chakra? Especially since it's been widley shown before that using up all your chakra doesnt mean anything except you cannot use jutsu. And for obvious reason.
Nothing here proves Hagoromo had chakra left. At all.
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@ Dzhindzholia wrote:
Hagoromo specifically noted that he gave both of them his powers,last time he gave powers only to Asura,and now he didved it between them.Not only seals for CT but his power.It is also noted in databook that Sasuke recieved his jutsus and Rinnegan from Hagoromo,just like Naruto.
But...he giving them the yin-yang seal and by extension triggering the awakening of his Six path senjutsu in Naruto and his Rinnegan in Sasuke also translate to giving them his power.
I mean if Hagoromo had just arrived and randomly gave them 50% of his God juice power,and it had nothing to do with them fulfilling the requirement on thier own...then why didnt sasuke awaken six path senjutsu and Naruto awaken rinnegan..or better still why didn't they both have SPSM and Rinnegan since they both had 50% of his entire power.and why didn't Ashura have the entire package Rinnegan and sage mode after recieving 100% of his power???????
The chakra may have triggered their awakenings,but they got boosted enough to fight Madara on the equal ground who in turn was comparable to Hagoromo.
The boost was from their awakening.six path senjutsu and rinnesharingan..its just like the eight gate or MS,only better and with no side effect.you don't always need external power to get insane boost
I think no one can explain that part.I don't think it's right to compare him to average characters of the verse,Hagoromo can travel from heaven to earth and even use his techniques as a Ghost.Maybe he regained his strength when he died (lol),that sounds really odd.
Yeah it does sound odd,or it could just be the fact that he just gave ashura some God juice,which triggered six path power in him as he now posses the complete DNA set..thereby bringing him a step closer to the So6p than Indra was...P.S(does Indra have a rinnnegan???).
Fused Momoshiki>Momoshiki (Physically he is on base Naruto's level,but his techniques are stronger)> Kaguya>Naruto/Sasuke>Delta.
I didn't include Hagoromo,Hamura and Madara.
Lol..You didn't have to answer that,i was just joking,although i dont subscribe to the whole Momo>> Kaguya. i just think Delta is faring better against Naruto than Momo.
Still undecided though,i would have already gone with Imade if not for Tata's strong counter,i'll just wait for Imade's rebuttal to Tata's strong counter from last thread.
Hagoromo specifically noted that he gave both of them his powers,last time he gave powers only to Asura,and now he didved it between them.Not only seals for CT but his power.It is also noted in databook that Sasuke recieved his jutsus and Rinnegan from Hagoromo,just like Naruto.
But...he giving them the yin-yang seal and by extension triggering the awakening of his Six path senjutsu in Naruto and his Rinnegan in Sasuke also translate to giving them his power.
I mean if Hagoromo had just arrived and randomly gave them 50% of his God juice power,and it had nothing to do with them fulfilling the requirement on thier own...then why didnt sasuke awaken six path senjutsu and Naruto awaken rinnegan..or better still why didn't they both have SPSM and Rinnegan since they both had 50% of his entire power.and why didn't Ashura have the entire package Rinnegan and sage mode after recieving 100% of his power???????
The chakra may have triggered their awakenings,but they got boosted enough to fight Madara on the equal ground who in turn was comparable to Hagoromo.
The boost was from their awakening.six path senjutsu and rinnesharingan..its just like the eight gate or MS,only better and with no side effect.you don't always need external power to get insane boost
I think no one can explain that part.I don't think it's right to compare him to average characters of the verse,Hagoromo can travel from heaven to earth and even use his techniques as a Ghost.Maybe he regained his strength when he died (lol),that sounds really odd.
Yeah it does sound odd,or it could just be the fact that he just gave ashura some God juice,which triggered six path power in him as he now posses the complete DNA set..thereby bringing him a step closer to the So6p than Indra was...P.S(does Indra have a rinnnegan???).
Fused Momoshiki>Momoshiki (Physically he is on base Naruto's level,but his techniques are stronger)> Kaguya>Naruto/Sasuke>Delta.
I didn't include Hagoromo,Hamura and Madara.
Lol..You didn't have to answer that,i was just joking,although i dont subscribe to the whole Momo>> Kaguya. i just think Delta is faring better against Naruto than Momo.
Still undecided though,i would have already gone with Imade if not for Tata's strong counter,i'll just wait for Imade's rebuttal to Tata's strong counter from last thread.
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Six Paths Senjutsu is awakened via having the Chakra of the 9 Bijuu, it's why Madara literally says he also has Six Paths Senjutsu like Naruto as Madara had the 9 Bijuu Chakra.
- it says nothing about how Six Paths Senjutsu is awakened via having the Chakra of the 9 Bijuu
- so dont why u even post it here
- and it take 50+ years too awakened it .DB reveals it was from hagoromo
- nope DB disagree with that hadconon of yours
- another hadconon.DB state hagoromo give it to naruto
- what ?he did
- manga never state it . what u just said is more hadconon
- hagoromo outright said he give them way all of his chakra
- another hadconon That's it.
- thanks bold prove that jubito was = hagoromo u agree no?
- again it was given by hagoromo
- hagoromo outright said he give them way all of his chakra .he couldnt even perform a simple sommoning
- yes worse enough not able to perform a simple sommoning
- whats the difference here.Six Paths Sage Mode is form that let him use Six Paths Senjutsu ot is part of Six Paths Sage Mode power
- he never said that.he said its requirements to undo the seale/IT
- smh. no it wasnt.stop using hadconon as fact
- hadconon
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thanks to imad we find out jubito = hagoromo
The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who'd taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage's power even now."
so 5-B jubito upgrade it
The Nine Tails was still living inside Naruto. There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who'd taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage's power even now."
so 5-B jubito upgrade it
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Sasuke naturally awakened the Rinnegan, he had his own Indra Chakra and received Ashura Chakra from Hashirama.
This point is really up for debate: Rinnegan = Ashura Chakra + Indra Chakra.
Sasuke had both before meeting Hagoromo.
I completely answer the rest later, I'm going to sleep now.
This point is really up for debate: Rinnegan = Ashura Chakra + Indra Chakra.
Sasuke had both before meeting Hagoromo.
- Hashirama didn't give him chakra, he gave him a jutsu which we don't know what the heck it is, maybe it's a sealing jutsu. Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't know and someone tell me what it is if there is scan/statement.
- This scan also doesn't prove Sasuke awakened just he can/could if he have decades (if he is given chakra by Hashirama) if at all but we have databook statements tell he given by Hagoromo which is more reliable than any theory.
- The proof you used for Naruto and Sasuke awakening their respective powers comes from Madara who doesn't know that they spoke Hagoromo at all, he spoke what he knows from his own perspective. So, Madara's talk is mean nothing for us who knows they encountered Hagoromo and directly given their power. I already addressed why Madara is unreliable. This is similar to how Hashirama claimed that Sakura is stronger than Tsunade but we didn't believe to be current Tsunade because when she was a genin Hashirama was dead so he is not a reliable narrative.
- Also, this sca doesn't say have anything about possessing Six Paths Senjutsu/SPSM or any power at all, Hagoromo explains the requirements and how to the undo Infinite Tsukuyomi, and nothing more.
- Please, don't compare Juubi against other Bijuus as Juubi is not the sum of its parts as it stated by Kurama, it's chakra sensed by Naruto and literally stomping BM Naruto around even when it doesn't have the majority of Kurama's and Hachibi's chakra when Kurama previously stomping other bijuus around.
I completely answer the rest later, I'm going to sleep now.
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So ordinary Sage Mode Naruto is 5-B for wounding Obito with a Rasengan?Omimi said:
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Are we continually going to forget that for one the rasengan does internal damage? And for 2 he used senjutsu which six paths users are vulnerable to.
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Not that I think Juubito was 5-B.
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I knew there was something off with the 50% and 100%,that kept being thrown around.
@Imade
Ashura and Indra were never given power from Hagoromo and Hagoromo admits this himself when talking about their history.
I could have sworn Ashura had SPSM or six path senjutsu...that isn't possible except you have some otsusuki God juice right???
@Imade
Ashura and Indra were never given power from Hagoromo and Hagoromo admits this himself when talking about their history.
I could have sworn Ashura had SPSM or six path senjutsu...that isn't possible except you have some otsusuki God juice right???
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Being vulnerable to it doesn't mean it bypasses durability for them.Rocker1189 said:
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Doing internal damage does mean it sort of does though.
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This isn't related necessarily to the scaling, but I'd just like to pop in and reiterate from the last thread that there shouldn't be seperate "Base" and "Rinnegan" keys for post-Hagoromo and Adult Sasuke, into the Boruto era. The one scene in The Last that showed Sasuke without his Rinnegan active was produced before the manga even ended; both Kishimoto and the artists of the Boruto manga and anime draw Sasuke with his Rinnegan active at all times, suggesting he can't deactivate it:
Boruto Episode 65, Sasuke's speech to Boruto
Boruto: The Next Generations Chapter 1, Page 58
Sasuke, shortly after discussing what happened to Boruto at the end of the fight with Momoshiki, then talking casually to his daughter.
Naruto, Chapter 700
Sasuke leaving the village at the canonical end of the anime.
Boruto Episode 65, Sasuke's speech to Boruto
Boruto: The Next Generations Chapter 1, Page 58
Sasuke, shortly after discussing what happened to Boruto at the end of the fight with Momoshiki, then talking casually to his daughter.
Naruto, Chapter 700
Sasuke leaving the village at the canonical end of the anime.
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Rocker1189 said:
Its not about internal damage though ,it is just an outright weakness especially when you consider rasenshuriken and amaterasu didn't do squat
Being vulnerable to it doesn't mean it bypasses durability for them.
Its probably because their mother's name where both Martha,which is=Man of steel durability ignoring vulnerability
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So, yeah then.
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Idk. Took me one minute to read thatRocker1189 said:
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Neutral for now, waiting for more responces
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Just gonna point out this is bull. Illustration actually showcases the chakra pathway to have similar concentratio over all anodes, its just that kaguya comes to the conclusion hagoromo gave him chakra after noticing the seal on his hand. The area around his hand is brightened to put emphasis on what kaguya is looking at.AnonymousBlank said:
Even assuming that was actually most of hagoromo's chakra concentrated around naruto's arm, it would actually be visible even normally like it is in kaguya's vision (Which obviously was not the case). Large concentration of chakra over certain area takes a physical form showcased throughout the series. Kid naruto releasing Kurama's chakra, Sasuke's/Kakashi's chidori, Rasengan, and many other examples. The more people reply in favor of Imade the more I realize they have not read the manga properly
This is just either misinterpreting scans or making your own headcanons at this point
As for Imade's fabrication of the context, Zetsu mentioning only about seal does not really negate anything here. S'eal was the only thing that was a threat to kaguya', not naruto or sasuke's boost. Heck even Hagoromo was not, only his seal was the threat due to which, I repeat, he was only concerned about the seal and nothing else.
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