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I have no idea why so many arguments are based on incredulity.
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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18
- Thread starter TheRustyOne
- Start date
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the issue is that one civilian guy saying he did it with air pressure/current, but then the anime showing he did it with the sheer spin power of his punch. Also doesn't help that the manga doesn't even show the sky, it just starts raining.
ÆONS
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Bruh moment.
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Fair enough, but if you ask me? The anime is pretty reliable at times and mostly stays true to the manga. Should be fine to use it if it contradicts nothing.
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It was stated that All Might changed the weather of a desert region in the past, which means he created a storm without any nearby cumulonimbus clouds to pull from.
That is why I think this interpretation of how he created the storm is more accurate.
That is why I think this interpretation of how he created the storm is more accurate.
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Also, there is a scene in the anime where the sky is reflected in a window, and it just turn dark, we don't see any clouds moving.
The vortex in the sky could well be created by the tornado that All Might formed, or just something exclusively from the anime.
The vortex in the sky could well be created by the tornado that All Might formed, or just something exclusively from the anime.
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How's about we discuss the Wolfram and Heroes Rising calcs and NOT the calc that probably isn't even going to be used.
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Honestly I think the Wolfram Calc is the most important
As the new Nabu island storm dispersal is basically the same as the old one just even higher
As the new Nabu island storm dispersal is basically the same as the old one just even higher
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No one even scales to the All Might rain feat.
The Wolfram one effects literally all the Nomu and everyone that scales to them.
The Wolfram one effects literally all the Nomu and everyone that scales to them.
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wait i thought the movie calc was like island level.
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Yeah it was, and it also is in Earthy's new calc.
This is the part where I would jokingly say to separate the movies from the manga but it might derail into nonsense so please don't respond to this.
In any case, yeah, while one of the biggest concern is how the AP would trickle down to the Nomus and Top Pro Heroes, consistency of the feats is another concern.
Personally this is wh I sometimes am wary of cloud and weather feats, but this isn't the topic so ignore this.
In any case, yeah, while one of the biggest concern is how the AP would trickle down to the Nomus and Top Pro Heroes, consistency of the feats is another concern.
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First of all, he could've created a vortex that brings in the clouds. There are multiple ways this could've been done honestly. We just don't know-how. It could've been done through CAPE, although this feat is irrelevant. This is an entirely different feat than the one we saw in the manga, so it should not be used to decide how exactly he did it in chapter one.
Even if we would say this feat is around the 5-20 Megaton range, it would be classified as an outlier by all of the other feats I've calculated. It wouldn't make sense for Weakened All Might to be dozens of times stronger than Wounded All Might, after all. And who said this was All Might's strongest feat?
And a little bit of context surrounding the Double Detroit Smash; even if we were to disregard my calculation of the feat, taking Therefir's rendition of it and calculating it frame by frame still gives us results within the 7-A range. Even if you don't believe me, you could literally try this yourself and you'd realize that I'm correct.
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Oh boy, here we go.
First off: What does that "brought rain to a place with no rain" feat even matter when so many things about it are lacking? Did he punch once and it started to rain? Did it take multiple punches? How large of an area was it? Hypothetically, if he brought rain to an area over 100 km in size, wouldn't that make that feat even stronger? I assume this is a statement/showing from vigilantes. So if anything, if he performs a similar feat to a higher degree, why aren't we using that feat?
Secondly:
The person who does MHA backgrounds is very bad. Like, really bad. Like, horrendous. In that same scene, the area around the crowd just grows darker, with no actual shadow changes on any of the characters present. The sunlight hitting each character is the exact same despite the clouds he made/pulled blocking out the sun from multiple angles in seconds. If we're going by CAPE, wouldn't he have blocked the sun out FIRST, since that would be the point of origin for he air pressure he punched up there? That entire first scene of the sky growing darker is weird af.
If anything, I'd say it DOES look like clouds are coming in for the anime scene since that's the only way to explain how the shadows on those characters don't move while the sky is getting darker behind them without just getting mad at the animator.
Third:
So how does that work? He created a tornado, which sent a bunch of air into the sky that formed clouds out to the horizon in literal seconds, on top of his tornado somehow still spinning up there in order to create an eye through the clouds? And if its not still spinning somehow, why, when the anime goes to the sky, is there an eye in the clouds if he just made all those clouds from the air currents, not from pulling them in? Either the anime changed the feat entirely because Horikoshi didn't show literally anything about the feat other than "punch, air current, it is now raining," or its not CAPE. I don't know numbers very well, but the series of events that needs to take place, at least for the anime, for this to be CAPE seems very strange.
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During the USJ Attack, Deku states this feat was performed with 100% of All Might's power, so yeah, that's All Might's strongest feat in the manga.
What could be considered an outlier or not depends entirely on the person you ask, but I have to remind you that the feats you calculated come from the movies, which tend to exaggerate things quite a bit compared to the manga, and that All Might's feat should take priority for coming from the official source.
@Kingofwolves999 If we're okay with ignoring the background of a scene to calculate this feat, then go ahead with the revision, it's not the first time we've done it after all.
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I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, actually. Are you agreeing that the background is weird for the anime in this scene? So ignoring it is a thing that's allowed?
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I wasn't being sarcastic, we ignored the background of Deku's tornado feat, so All Might's case would be no different.
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IMO the way to satisfy everyone is to make manga profiles and anime/movie profiles if the differences prove to be great enough in their portrayal.
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That just feels self-defeating. So far, this is the only feat that can be called directly contradictory to the manga. Every other feat, plotline, character, story element, etc. have been basically 1:1, including movie characters and Horikoshi's own statements. Besides, even if we separated the profiles, both would still use movie feats, so the problem isn't even solved unless you're suggesting we create our own anime/movie only canon, that has no basis for existing other than both are animated.
Valiant_Abyss
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Deku at this point in the series is making an educated guess, I think it would be really weird to take a statement made by someone who barely understands the power as gospel.
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I use Gun. Gun beats everything.
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The belief that the anime and manga are separate canons is never one I can get behind, especially considering the anime changes nothing that matters, and instead in several situations improves upon the source material with further thought. Like Final Exams being one at a time and not all at the same moment, so characters could actually comment on each other to understand what is happening. It puts the manga in motion, that is it. It doesn't change whole plot lines, it doesn't change whole fights, it doesn't abandon plots, it doesn't make 20 filler episodes between arcs that have ridiculous feats in them, and it doesn't directly contradict the entire idea Horikoshi is attempting to construct.
It takes what Horikoshi made and puts it into motion. Are there times where what is shown is better than what is shown in the manga? Yes, that is literally inevitable, they have to make actual money, that's what sakuga is for. I heavily doubt ANYONE would rather it just be moving pictures like Record of Ragnorak or something.
So the claim that "Oh, the anime/movies (which Horikoshi deems canon, references in canon, shows characters from in canon, wrote with his own ideas and included special chapters and novels to directly explain how they fit in canon and what is happening) have higher feats, so they must be a separate universe" is not one I could ever see grounded in fact.
It takes what Horikoshi made and puts it into motion. Are there times where what is shown is better than what is shown in the manga? Yes, that is literally inevitable, they have to make actual money, that's what sakuga is for. I heavily doubt ANYONE would rather it just be moving pictures like Record of Ragnorak or something.
So the claim that "Oh, the anime/movies (which Horikoshi deems canon, references in canon, shows characters from in canon, wrote with his own ideas and included special chapters and novels to directly explain how they fit in canon and what is happening) have higher feats, so they must be a separate universe" is not one I could ever see grounded in fact.
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100% don't agree with disregarding movie feats and separating them from the manga purely because they have higher showings
That is mega dumb
That is mega dumb
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The whole point of hypothetically separating the profiles is so that hypothetically they both won't be using movie feats. only one of them would.
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The only movie that would be canon to the anime would be Two Heroes, because it specifically has an anime episode dedicated to it. It otherwise features no other references to the movies (yet), unlike Horikoshi's constant claims that his manga connects to all the movies.
It's an argument from semantics, an aggravating one as well, but Horikoshi can only speak for his own creation. I don't recall someone at Bones ever claiming the movies are canon to the anime outside the first one. So in a theoretical split, the movie feats would fully go to the manga, not the anime.
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Time to introduce the levels to which this doesn't make sense.
What could and couldn't be considered an outlier depending on the person is irrelevant. If we take a single feat which is 5-A to numerous feats which are 4-C, which would you think is the outlier? Of course, it's gonna be the 5-A one. Whether or not you think it'd be the 4-C feat because of your personal beliefs is just an Argument to Incredulity. This is the type of logic you're using to support your argument, and it simply does not work.
Second of all? We're really going to pull the "the movies exaggerate everything" thing again? This is not a hill to die on, because first of all, you need proof that these feats are exaggerated. If there's a reasonable explanation on why All Might is 7-A here, but 7-B previously, along with the Heroes Rising feat being High 6-C, we're going to have to disregard the 7-B feat. And this is assuming the chapter one feat is 7-B, to begin with. There's already evidence suggesting it's supposed to be 7-A anyways. There is no need to mention this.
And let's take a second to realize how hypocritical this would be. There aren't many High 8-C feats for the verse in the manga, but we mainly base our High 8-C scaling coming from the anime/movies. Logically? If the anime and movies exaggerate scaling, shouldn't we disregard this? There's tons of 9-A scaling in the manga after all. But there have been talks explaining why this wouldn't work, and why people don't agree with this. Point is? Using the movies as an excuse to not go through with the upgrade is something that has been done before, and effortlessly debunked.
And coming from an official source? The movies are official sources. Two Heroes was worked on with Horikoshi, and I don't know if it's the same for Heroes Rising, you can bet your ass that it's indeed canon.
That would only work if both the movie/anime are completely non-canon to the manga, and they aren't. Some of the feats in the movies/anime, whether you like it or not are consistent until proven otherwise.
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Actually a theoretical split can be whatever we want it to be.
I'm obviously only speaking about my own preferences here. I don't expect everyone to go along with them.
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I was speaking more generally I suppose, I'm not exactly well versed in how splits on profiles happen for the wiki.
I think you just need to get your calcs accepted first. We can worry for the scaling and arguments for them later.
Make sure to contact the calc group discussion board. Ant says that on every calc, so it probably speeds up the process.
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Alright then.
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By the way, when the time comes for the thread to restart, your proposals should be updated to reflect every profile that will need to be changed as a result of this.
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I forgot to include that in, so thanks for reminding me. I'll start making a list I guess.
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I think it's entirely possible to split up profiles based on different mediums even if they are equally canon, however, I'm not sure how beneficial that would be for MHA considering the Inconsistencies between the two are very rare and would be solely there to fix a problem that seems to come from the manga being unclear as oppose to contradicting the anime, this is without taking into consideration that movies would likely be canon for both mediums anyway.
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That's also why I said "if the differences prove to be great enough in their portrayal". If it's not beneficial, then we don't do it.
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I don't get the whole, "Profile splitting" thing here. Just because the movies exaggerate a few feats doesn't mean everything is automatically exaggerated. You need evidence to prove that the feats I calculated are exaggerations, just like you need evidence to prove their outliers. That's just how logic works.
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I thought anime scenes couldn’t be used.
. . .
Can someone calc anime Iida kicking Mudman in the face’s speed—
. . .
Can someone calc anime Iida kicking Mudman in the face’s speed—
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Deku’s mom can FLOAT small objects towards her, and his dad can breathe fire. Therefore, his last quirk is probably a fire bolt that can counter Shigaraki’s regeneration maybe.
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A lot of people in the MHA fandom still considers the movies as "self-contained canon" meaning they are considered as canon supposedly by Horikoshi and is subtly referenced in the manga, but the major events and major characters in said movies are never actually mentioned explicitly in the main canon. Thus whether or not they're as canon as, say, the Mugen Train movie of Demon Slayer, is questionable to say the least.
I am personally neutral to all of this currently. But I sincerely do want the MHA movies to be canon as much as it possibly can, and I do consider them canon. But it's not just the inconsistency, but that the Shield family, Wolfram, and Bakugo temporarily getting One For All is never directly mentioned in the manga, with Nine only appearing in an ant-sized panel while only having a separate spinoff manga volume/chapters of their own like the Shields.
It would've been so easy to reference them multiple times, like just say the Mid Gauntlets was made by Melissa instead of All Might vaguely commissioning them from 'Murica. Or they could've mentioned Bakugo when talking about the nature of OFA in the Vestige world.
But as of now, VIgilantes is the one media separate from the main manga that's the most canon of them all.
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