My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

[Therefir]

I already accepted All Might's Mountain level calc. We know that he used more power against the USJ Nomu than in this feat, and that Deku compared his own power to All Might's, so why don't we just use that and forget about the movie feats? They can be as high as Country level depending on how you calc them.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I feel it’s hard to reference movie characters directly in the manga because then he’s almost incentivizing people to pay money to watch the movies, something he doesn’t do for even Vigilantes. The anime doesn’t have that restriction, but I feel it’s difficult for him to just say “hey remember Nine” when there are still people that haven’t watched the film, or to say “the Crawler shows up in the war and saves Deku” with people who don’t read vigilantes not knowing who he is.

He wants supplemental canon to still be canon, but he tries not to force it into the main canon for the readers sake I feel.

I already accepted All Might's Mountain level calc. We know that he used more power against the USJ Nomu than in this feat, and that Deku compared his own power to All Might's, so why don't we just use that and forget about the movie feats? They can be as high as Country level depending on how you calc them.

That doesn’t resolve the other 2 calcs though? Assuming the mountain level calc is accepted, all that does is set a basis for the Large Mountain Level calc. Keep in mind All Might did that storm feat with the air pressure of his punch, not the actual punch itself, which would be vastly stronger. Specifically, as suggested by the Wolfram calc, Large Mountain Level.

The Heroes Rising calc is independent of both those calcs and needs to be looked at separately. It can’t be ignored.

 

[Therefir]

The Heroes Rising calc is independent of both those calcs and needs to be looked at separately. It can’t be ignored.

The images that Earthyboy is using are too blurry to see what he is measuring, specially the last one, I can't really accept this calc.

 

[ÆONS]

I feel it’s hard to reference movie characters directly in the manga because then he’s almost incentivizing people to pay money to watch the movies, something he doesn’t do for even Vigilantes. The anime doesn’t have that restriction, but I feel it’s difficult for him to just say “hey remember Nine” when there are still people that haven’t watched the film, or to say “the Crawler shows up in the war and saves Deku” with people who don’t read vigilantes not knowing who he is.

He wants supplemental canon to still be canon, but he tries not to force it into the main canon for the readers sake I feel.

. . .

Speaking as someone who has only watched one of the movies and not read Vigilantes at all—even though I kind of should—that is the sort of impression I get from Horikoshi on how he handles content that does not come straight from his manga.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The images that Earthyboy is using are too blurry to see what he is measuring, specially the last one, I can't really accept this calc.

Tell him to get better ones then? I’m sure there’s some higher quality ones somewhere around, and all he needs is a good picture of the storm being dispersed yeah? Don’t we have a video on the wiki that shows that feat in high quality?

His blog is up, so you can tell him any flaws with the calc there.

 

[Metalballrun]

I feel it’s hard to reference movie characters directly in the manga because then he’s almost incentivizing people to pay money to watch the movies, something he doesn’t do for even Vigilantes. The anime doesn’t have that restriction, but I feel it’s difficult for him to just say “hey remember Nine” when there are still people that haven’t watched the film, or to say “the Crawler shows up in the war and saves Deku” with people who don’t read vigilantes not knowing who he is.

This is probably true.
But at the very least, Vigilantes is acknowledged in the series in more ways than one. Aizawa's backstory and Shirakumo's/Kurogiri's existence for one, directly ties these two manga. Where Horikoshi said that he worked hard to make these events coincide when he and Betten were writing their manga, and used this instance where people who don't read Vigilantes going "Who tf is Shirakumo" to encourage them to read Vigilantes.

He wants supplemental canon to still be canon, but he tries not to force it into the main canon for the readers sake I feel.

Yes, but people also use this as a way to disregard the movies. Because if it feels forced to include it in the main canon, then it isn't canon.
Of course we can find many disagreements with that sentiment, as the reason for not doing it is meta more than consistency within the canon story. But it is what happens a lot, unfortunately.

 

[Therefir]

His blog is up, so you can tell him any flaws with the calc there.

I already left a comment in his blog, there are other glaring issues involving his measurements.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I already left a comment in his blog, there are other glaring issues involving his measurements.

I’m not him. Just comment on his blogs with the issues you have and he’ll either fix it or argue his calculations are correct, whichever is the most accurate. I’ll comment over there if I feel I have anything to add, but I’m not the one making these calcs, so telling me the flaws doesn’t solve anything cause I can’t exactly do anything with that knowledge.

 

[Therefir]

I’m not him. Just comment on his blogs with the issues you have and he’ll either fix it or argue his calculations are correct, whichever is the most accurate. I’ll comment over there if I feel I have anything to add, but I’m not the one making these calcs, so telling me the flaws doesn’t solve anything cause I can’t exactly do anything with that knowledge.

I already know that...? What are you trying to imply? I just told you if you were interested to check out what I posted on his blog, since it's clear you are concerned about this calc.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I already know that...? What are you trying to imply? I just told you if you were interested to check out what I posted on his blog, since it's clear you are concerned about this calc.

Just saying there’s no need to point out flaws in his calculations here. I’ve seen your comments already, and am waiting for his responses and further discussion, as well as whether I can even add to the conversation or not.

I mean, anyone active on the MHA side should be concerned with these calcs, good or bad. They hit a lot of top tier characters including the god tiers. They’re also covering the best feats the verse has to offer. It’s a very big revision.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

That's also why I said "if the differences prove to be great enough in their portrayal". If it's not beneficial, then we don't do it.

I'm aware, It wasn't directed at you, I was just giving my thoughts.

 

[BlackeJan]

Deku’s mom can FLOAT small objects towards her, and his dad can breathe fire. Therefore, his last quirk is probably a fire bolt that can counter Shigaraki’s regeneration maybe.

Bold of u to assume that Deku’s dad isn’t AFO

 

[Animegod12345]

Bold of u to assume that Deku’s dad isn’t AFO

He's not

 

[Earthyboy]

The images that Earthyboy is using are too blurry to see what he is measuring, specially the last one, I can't really accept this calc.

The images are easy enough to see if you zoom in, but apparently, some people are saying I got the measurements for Nabu Island wrong, so I'll just redo the calculation and base the storm's dimensions off of Mount Shinomiya.

 

[BlackeJan]

He's not

Who knows. Could actually be legit lol

 

[Earthyboy]

Redid the Two for All calculation and it's actually Small Country level. I'm not surprised, but the feat is a bit high compared to the rest. So we might have to wait until the Double Detroit Smash calculation gets accepted in order for us to evaluate whether or not it's usable.

Of course, this would be discussed with the CRT I made.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Redid the Two for All calculation and it's actually Small Country level. I'm not surprised, but the feat is a bit high compared to the rest. So we might have to wait until the Double Detroit Smash calculation gets accepted in order for us to evaluate whether or not it's usable.

Of course, this would be discussed with the CRT I made.

I mean I remember seeing someone calculate the two for all Calc as country level so yeah
Even this is tame by comparison

 

[Earthyboy]

I mean I remember seeing someone calculate the two for all Calc as country level so yeah
Even this is tame by comparison

A friend of mine got it to 16 Teratons actually.

 

[Damage3245]

Again though, weren't these feats rejected for being outliers even when they were calced as being lower than this?

Doesn't it seems even more farfetched for these to be acceptable now that they're higher? Do you really think characters like Lady Nagant and Muscular are Small Country level?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Again though, weren't these feats rejected for being outliers even when they were calced as being lower than this?

Yep although it was because all of the next closest options were like Low 7-B
If this wolfram Calc was accepted at 3.5 Gigatons maybe High 6-C wouldn’t have been too bad
But for Low 6-B to get accepted…
Good luck to him I guess.

 

[Earthyboy]

Again though, weren't these feats rejected for being outliers even when they were calced as being lower than this?

Doesn't it seems even more farfetched for these to be acceptable now that they're higher? Do you really think characters like Lady Nagant and Muscular are Small Country level?

I explained why they weren't outliers in my CRT, but we're waiting for that to open. For now? Let's just discuss whether or not the math/calculations are accurate.

 

[Damage3245]

Compared to the feats from the manga itself, a Small Country level 100% Deku is absolutely an outlier.

 

[Cyberblader90]

why would the two characters you listed scale at all

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Again though, weren't these feats rejected for being outliers even when they were calced as being lower than this?

Doesn't it seems even more farfetched for these to be acceptable now that they're higher? Do you really think characters like Lady Nagant and Muscular are Small Country level?

Your issue here is attempting scale people to it, when they don’t exist.

There is not a single character that scales to this other than the 3 people that were present for it, that being Full Cowl Deku/Bakugo and Nine. There is no one else this scales to. MAYBE you could argue prime AM, but even that is a stretch because Deku should be stronger than him in that state.

 

[Earthyboy]

Compared to the feats from the manga itself, a Small Country level 100% Deku is absolutely an outlier

Let's take a stroll through these points.

1. First of all, the manga barely has any feats which would prove this is an outlier. Outside of All Might's feat chapter one? There isn't anything you could use which would make this an outlier.
2. I already explained within my CRT why One for All can be Small Country level several months after he used to be Small City level. If we're going to start debating whether or not it's an outlier or not, then open the CRT. That's what it's basically for.
3. Honestly? Muscular only scales to Deku's 100% in the BOS. I've made a clear effort to explain why 100% is separate and completely different from Full Cowling at 100% anyway, so this is irrelevant.
4. Nagnant's arm got broken and mangled by the air-pressure wave of Deku's Faux 100% Smash. She probably wouldn't even be Island level by the standards of my CRT.

Shall I go on? Because I can. And like I said before, if we're going to start assuming these calculations are correct, then we should take this discussion in my CRT, otherwise, it's useless talking about this.

 

[Gitagon]

Again though, weren't these feats rejected for being outliers even when they were calced as being lower than this?

Doesn't it seems even more farfetched for these to be acceptable now that they're higher? Do you really think characters like Lady Nagant and Muscular are Small Country level?

Not a single character in MHA scales to that apart from those who were in the fight.

The difference between OFA and Two For All was massive. Almost exponential. Nine easily defended himself against OFA 100% Detroit Smash with a smaller storm but even when he went all out with he Storm covering the island 2 OFAs at 100% were strong enough to disperse it.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

Let’s not forget Katsuma’s quirk also was boosting their physical traits, so, that sounds kind of important. I assume Deku/Bakugo isn’t always at that level at 100%, but with Katsuma-Boost-100%.

And no one scales to it because no one has taken a double detroit smash directly.

Also AFO could totally still be Deku’s dad. All we know is that he CAN breathe fire and he works as a business man; AFO literally only has two outfits, a business outfit and a hospital gown. He probably has a fire breathing quirk somewhere or got rid of it.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Does that mean Deku and Shiggy are adoptive brothers.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

Could be. Deku looks kinda like young Tenko when he’s being rightfully pissy at Chisaki a few chapters ago.

 

[Earthyboy]

Let’s not forget Katsuma’s quirk also was boosting their physical traits, so, that sounds kind of important. I assume Deku/Bakugo isn’t always at that level at 100%, but with Katsuma-Boost-100%.

And no one scales to it because no one has taken a double detroit smash directly.

Also AFO could totally still be Deku’s dad. All we know is that he CAN breathe fire and he works as a business man; AFO literally only has two outfits, a business outfit and a hospital gown. He probably has a fire breathing quirk somewhere or got rid of it.

Katsuma's boost probably isn't even that huge. It only enhanced the physical traits of Base Deku and Bakugou most likely. Unless they suddenly became Small Country level out of nowhere? This is irrelevant.

The only people who'd actually scale to this are Full Cowling Deku and Bakugou at 100%, Nine, and possibly Prime All Might

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Katsuma’s quirk isn’t that big of a boost. We can see from how Deku and Bakugo fought Nine alongside the rest of the class that they weren’t exactly doing better than before, they just had actual plans and teamwork.

So while it improves their bodies, it isn’t a noticeable increase.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

is the small country level feat the only tier 6 feat?

 

[Cyberblader90]

it was lower in tier 6 with comparison to izena island. no idea why that was shot down.

Earthyboy/sandbox Heroes Rising: Two For All

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Cyberblader90]

this calc was also accepted:

My Hero Academia: Weather Changing Smash

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Therefir]

There is no difference between a 5% punch and 5% Full Cowl.

And Deku said he was using everything he had against Shigaraki, you're just creating a false difference to justify an obvious outlier.

 

[Earthyboy]

There is no difference between a 5% punch and 5% Full Cowl.

And Deku said he was using everything he had against Shigaraki, you're just creating a false difference to justify an obvious outlier.

Save it for the CRT Therefir. All of the calculations should be approved before discussing whether or not this is an outlier.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

There is no difference between a 5% punch and 5% Full Cowl.

And Deku said he was using everything he had against Shigaraki, you're just creating a false difference to justify an obvious outlier.

That’s the crux of the argument yes?

Give me examples of Deku punching at lower percentages with anything other than 100%. To make that claim, you require evidence to support it.

The best example of this exact scenario is from the Sports Festival, where he punched Todoroki with 5% and it throws him backwards several feet. However, the kicker here, is Base Deku is also capable of pushing Todoroki back several feet with a headbutt. Is it a feat to launch someone back like that when even your base is enough to harm them? Especially, even further, that Todoroki was weakened from ice forming on his body?

Even further, let’s talk speed. When Deku is fighting Gran Torino, he manages to predict his trajectory, and punches at him with a 5% enhanced arm. GT, who is being extremely casual, dodges it while it’s making its way towards him, saying he’s too stiff. Then, later, when he gets Full Cowl, in exactly 3 minutes, where it’s straining all his muscles, he’s able to react to Gran Torino and actually tag him? Gran Torino has to actually try and avoid his attacks, when previously he could react to his single arm like it was nothing? If they’re the same speed, why would it take more effort?

Also, let’s look at the LITERAL display of 100% being weaker than Full Cowl 100%, which is in the movie itself, RIGHT before the cloud dispersal feat. Deku tries to punch Nine’s tornado away (not even the storm clouds, JUST the tornado destroying everything) and he fails, heavily. He barely makes a dent in it before it overpowers him. Compare that to him and Bakugo clearing the combined, forced downwards spiral of a storm Nine was creating with FC 100%. It’s not even comparable the clear power difference between the two.

Heck, even in Overhaul, we see a gap between the two. Remember how Deku used 100% on his leg to kick at Overhaul before flying out of the base? Remember how BASE Overhaul didn’t immediately die from the air pressure of that attack? Well then, here comes Overhaul fused with Katsukame, amped up on energy from Ryukyu and Nejire, getting his body literally blown to pieces by Deku’s attacks like it’s nothing. He got so much of his body punched off that he went from near city block sized to smaller than the hole Deku made. Even Deku just moving past Overhaul was blowing pieces of his body off. The strength gap between a single attack at 100% and the full body’s movements at 100% are VERY easy to see.

Also, and this is for everyone that doesn’t understand this:

PUNCHES DO NOT HAVE FULL POWER FROM JUST YOUR ARM AND SHOULDER.

Punches take full body movements to be even remotely effective. If base Deku launches a 100% punch, it is not going to be as effective as 45% Deku launching a 100% punch because the different muscle groups and categories are being ridiculously amplified by One For All. It is literal physics that a punch at 100% with only the arm being strengthened is going to be far weaker than that exact same punch at 100% with the entire body amplified to the same degree.

Last point: the infamous “I’ll use everything I have” argument.

If Deku was really using every last bit of power he had at that point, he would’ve gone Full Cowl 100%. No if’s, ands or buts about it. He would not be at 45% spamming 100% attacks, he would be full power, hair spiky and glowing, beating the shit out of Shigaraki. Are you seriously telling me that, in this situation, he WOULDN’T use Full Cowl 100% if he was allegedly using everything? Unless there’s some non-confirmed reasoning for him to not use it, he was very clearly not going as all out as he claimed due to his rage and usage of multiple quirks.

Heck, we even SEE that he has higher power than what he was outputting against Shigaraki when he enters a real rage state. He blew a chunk of Shigaraki’s head off with just a graze when he got mad, and the visual differences between his two states are clearly indicative of the power he is wielding. Are you attempting to imply that the glowing eyes, spiked hair and animalistic fighting style that bit through rivet stab like a cracker are the EXACT same strength as the 100% smashes he was doing earlier?

The rage state Deku enters is practically a pseudo-Full Cowl 100% visually, and we know that visuals matter for One For All a lot. So to claim that what Deku was doing against Shigaraki was, without question, every bit of power he had, is ridiculous. Whether it was subconscious or he literally can’t do it on command, or was worried about dealing with the extra quirks, it doesn’t matter; he did not use Full Cowl 100% against Shigaraki, despite it objectively being the strongest he can become, and only somewhat neared a state similar to it after becoming enraged. He did not go all out and use everything. His statement there is directly contradicted by his actions and what we know of his real power.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

No one here better even pretend that muscle groups and real life body structures don’t matter in MHA by the way. The science and logic put behind so many of Deku’s growths and damages are 1:1 with reality, so claiming that he magically throws the exact same punches with weaker muscle groups than stronger ones is hubris to the tallest degree.

 

[Therefir]

Your entire argument is mut considering Nine himself is but an inferior version of Shigaraki, as both were amped and modified by the same person, Doctor Garaki.

So how is it that Deku was able to heavily injure Shigaraki with 100% only on his arm if there is this huge difference between these forms? Why he claimed he used everything he had against Shigaraki?

In real life using the back and torso muscles will never make your punches hundreds of times stronger, your train of logic is ridiculous because the feat is too big in comparison to All Might's to justify this argument.

All Might to this day is still a top tier compared to Nine and Full Cowl 100% Deku from the movie.

 

[ÆONS]

Honestly, I'm on Therefir's side in regards to Shiggy scaling to Deku and Bakugo's TFA feat, assuming it is valid.

Again though, weren't these feats rejected for being outliers even when they were calced as being lower than this?

Doesn't it seems even more farfetched for these to be acceptable now that they're higher? Do you really think characters like Lady Nagant and Muscular are Small Country level?

Muscular got stomped, there's literally no way he'd be Small Country level. Lady Nagant's arm got destroyed when Deku landed a hit on hit so she should not scale either.