Boku no Hero Revisions

[Dr._whiteee]

Boku no Hero's statistics are extremely inflated. This is due to improper calcing methodology for the feats in questio[1] [2] .

The Problem

The problem that exists is that the calcer has used KE instead of latent heat of condensation. Both feats performed by All Might, and Nine are clearly storm creation feats (one done mechanically and the other by quirk), and nothing in the scenes remotely shows or suggests that Thunderstorms of some random distance away, were pulled to the user.

Why is the KE version wrong?

The numbers themselves are fine. However, the usage of KE is unfounded based on the evidence we are given. To start with, we are given no notion by All Might or Nine that they are attempting to move clouds from over the horizon to themselves. In order to validate KE we must have proof that A.) A storm existed somewhere over the horizon, B.) Nine knew this when attempting his feat, and thus was able to pull said storm and C.) The storm shown to be travelling into view from over the horizon to said space (outside of explicit statements confirming.). None of this exist for either scene.

Here we see Nine simply power up his quirk, and a thunderstormappears directly above his head. Notice also that the eye of the storm is directly above him . All visuals point towards cloud creation above him, no scene denotes or implies clouds came in from beyond the horizon.

In All might's case there is literally a crowd of people staring up. None of them comment that a storm is coming. Instead we simply see the existing atmosphere (and thus not some random cloud volume brought in from elsewhere) turn into a storm cloud. You can even very clearly see the clouds through the windows behind the crowd showing that the existing sky is simply turning into cumulonimbus clouds .

Simply put there is no proof that an existing storm, or set of clouds were pulled 20km in such a short time to allow for KE to be used. All evidence and occam's razor point to storm creation on site.

How would this work? All Might doesn't have a weather quirk...

Well it's really simple. He punched so hard that he made a tornado and added enough heat into the atmosphere to create a storm on the spot. (remember when a ninja boy did this tocreate a storm for his jutsu? )

All Might added this red energy. Don't think I have to explain how a Weather Manipulator creates a storm, pretty self explanatory.

Which is why Latent heat of condensation should be used. KE is completely unfounded based on what we are actually shown and the more evidenced available method should be used.

How much does this change things?

All Might Feat

Storm Volume = 10053100000000 m^3

Density = 3g/m^3

Mass = 3.01593×10^13 g/m^3

Latent heat of condensation = 2500 joules/gram

Total Joules = 7.539825×10^16 or 17.925430210325 Mt

Nine's Feat

Storm Volume = 10053100000000m^3

Storm Mass = 3.01593×10^13 g/m^3

Latent heat of condensation = 2500 joules/gram

Total Joules = 7.539825×10^16 or 17.925430210325 Mt

Both calcs are City Level and very far away from gigatons.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Following for now.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

It's like people just forget we are in the middle of a forum move!. We're not suppose to make Content Revision Threads since everything will be erased.

You need to wait after the move is finished.

 

[Elizhaa]

Yes; large scale Content revision threads are not supposed to happened now. So, I will closed this thread.

 

[Elizhaa]

Antvasima clarified that the new complex threads doesn't necessarily need to be closed but are heavily discouraged and so should not won't be evaluated or accepted, after the forum move. So, I reopen the thread.

I still think it is perferable to wait after the move is finished like LordGriffin1000 said, Dr. whiteee.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

I see thank you.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Well I guess you can ask the people or person who calced the two feats to give their input anyway.

 

[Schnee_One]

<Problems with MHA storm calc

END ME

 

[NotoriouSoda]

So... are we just gonna wait till the forum move?

 

[Schnee_One]

We could address whether it's flawed or not first, if e make points against the storm being changed then there's no reason to continue

 

[NotoriouSoda]

True

But it this stuff is true RIP Gon vs Izuku.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

There isn't much to discuss here Imo. There isn't a shred of proof for KE and both scenes have explicit evidence for on site storm creation. I went back and forth with the calcer on his actual calc, so I'll just tag @therefir and let him speak his piece and rebutt where neccessary.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Note that I disagree with this, but I'll wait for Therefir to speak. I'll accept whatever he decides.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Note that I disagree with this, but I'll wait for Therefir to speak. I'll accept whatever he decides.

Shouldn't you be going based off of the merits of the given arguments?

 

[Therefir]

@TheRustyOne I kind of discussed this with Dr. whiteee on the storm blog, and while his argument makes sense, I still disagreed with it for a few reasons.

However, since my calculation of Deku and Bakugou is going to yield far higher results than All Might and Nine's feats, further discussion of this will be futile in the end, since these calcs are going to be replaced, unless we decide that Wounded All Might doesn't scale from Deku and Bakugou.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

To that end I'd rather hammer these calcs validity out now. It may not be fruitless, and we won't know until said other calc is posted if they will be replaced or not.


If it's the them seperating the portion of cloud via KE, I'm not sure those numbers are going to reach gigatons.

 

[Therefir]

If it's the them seperating the portion of cloud via KE, I'm not sure those numbers are going to reach gigatons.

I mean the storm is absolutely massive, and it was dispersed practically in an instant.

Anyway I will continue making the calc, I'll ask for evaluations after that.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

They didn't though. To disperse the whole cloud would mean no cumulonimbus clouds. They inly parted a small hole in the middle and the remainder of the storm was still there long afterwards.

But yeah i mean we can discuss that when you make the calc.

 

[Therefir]

I'm measuring Nine's storm, not the one that was left in the sky.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

The only thing that you can derive from the Cloud is the KE needed to part the section that Deku and Bakugou split.

From 00:26s to 00:53s is the feat and the given timeframe for the feat. [1]

An overwhelmingly majority of the rest of the storm is still present, meaning you can't use that mass for KE.

Nine creating the storm would need something around 100km storm radius and 12km (high end Cumulonimbus height) to step into gigaton territory.

 

[Therefir]

That's not actually the timeframe of the feat, the speed at which Nine's storm was dispersed it's much higher, that is just the timeframe Deku and Bakugou accumulated energy inside the storm.

>From 00:26s to 00:53s is the feat and the given timeframe for the feat.

The shockwave hit the storm at 00:31, and it was mostly dispersed at 0:47, don't play dumb.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Yes it is. That is when we are shown that the boys beam has blown through the 8km of cloud and thus lets in light from the sun.

The storm didn't "mostly disperse". The only section of clouds dispersed are the ones allowing light to flow through from the top (which can be scene at 00:57) The majority of the 20km storm raidus you used, is sitting right there inf rame at 00:53 and throughout the remainder of the fight until Baku and deku are seemingly defeated at the end, and even then there are sitll cumulonimbus clouds.

Therefore you can in no way give them anything KE related in regards to the whole storm. You can only calc the width of the section they destroyed and use that with 8km for heigh to find the cylindrical volume/mass of storm they dispersed.

 

[Therefir]

>The majority of the 20km storm raidus you used, is sitting right there inf rame at 00:53 and throughout the remainder of the fight until Baku and deku are seemingly defeated at the end, and even then there are sitll cumulonimbus clouds.

Incorrect once again, there is a clear difference between Nine's storm and the one that was left after the shockwave.


As you can see, the island is in the exact same place, with the same size, and the storm that was scattered is clearly not there.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Looking at this scene, they punched the storm that Nine was physically moving down towards them, which is what is being calced. That storm, after dispersing, is why the sky in the second image is dark with no light, as opposed to the first one where all the clouds are gathered over the island and you can still see light in the background.

That seems to make sense to me?

 

[Dr._whiteee]

>The majority of the 20km storm raidus you used, is sitting right there inf rame at 00:53 and throughout the remainder of the fight until Baku and deku are seemingly defeated at the end, and even then there are sitll cumulonimbus clouds.
Incorrect once again, there is a clear difference between Nine's storm and the one that was left after the shockwave.

As you can see, the island is in the exact same place, with the same size, and the storm that was scattered is clearly not there.

This is thelip of the storm . The entirity of the back drop on both pictures is storm cloud. It is the thing surrounding light beam we see. And it has clearly not been dispersed. You can literally see the thick sea of cloud s not dispersed when the camera zooms up through the whole to the sky. That's all unmoved volume.

In fact you can easily find the volume by using the island and the light beam. Said beam is around 8km based on your scaling in the second picture. So a cylindircal volume of about 8kmx8km.

 

[Therefir]

I don't care about the storm in the sky, or if it was part of the storm that dispersed, I'm just measuring the storm that was under the hole you're so obsessed with, you can call it "the lip of the storm" whatever you want but it doesn't change what I'm doing.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The only thing being measured and calced is the storm that Nine was physically moving down towards Deku and Bakugo, yeah? Then I don't see a problem, that's blatantly the one that they dispersed.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The hole they made in the sky isn't what should only be calced at all, there were storm clouds they dispersed in a very large area that extended past the hole. That area is what Therefir calced, and it seems pretty consistent and logical to me.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Looking at this scene, they punched the storm that Nine was physically moving down towards them, which is what is being calced. That storm, after dispersing, is why the sky in the second image is dark with no light, as opposed to the first one where all the clouds are gathered over the island and you can still see light in the background.
That seems to make sense to me?

Not what is going on here. Nine is attacking them with weather effects summoned from the cloud that is in question in this calc.

Calcer used KE under the assumption that he pulled a storm cloud from somewhere else, or pulled clouds together to form them (hence my issues with the calc in the OP) instead of using condensation values for creating a storm. Leading to an inflated result.

He then scales the energy Nine used to form the storm (using KE) to the energy of Nine's attacks. Which is what Deku and Baku are being scaled to. The whole line of scaling is erroneous since the wrong calc method was used for nine's storm creation feat.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

The hole they made in the sky isn't what should only be calced at all, there were storm clouds they dispersed in a very large area that extended past the hole. That area is what Therefir calced, and it seems pretty consistent and logical to me.

No it's not. The storm mass calculated was the width using horizon methods. The cloud is calced at 8km in length, which is how big a thunderstorm gets at low end. The lip you are referring to is no where near 8km tall. 8km tall iswhere the clouds stop all the way at the top which is why the light is shining through. It's only around 8km wide. Which is no where near enough of the total storm mass (end result which is 20km radius by 8km height) which is what the gigatons result is calced based on.

The whole diamter of the storm (how wide it is) is 40km. The length is 8km. The section Deku and Baku actually dissipate is no where near 40km. It is around 8-10km. Which means they scale to how much energy it would be KE wise to move 8km x 8km of water mass.

 

[Therefir]

You seem to think I'm going to assume that the storm that was dispersed has a diameter of 20 kilometers.

The thing is, I'm perfectly capable of measuring this "lip of the storm" using the island below. That's what I was planning to do since the beginning.

 

[Therefir]

>8km tall iswhere the clouds stop all the way at the top which is why the light is shining through. It's only around 8km wide.

Wrong, you don't know how tall those clouds are, but I don't really care anyways. Using the island I can easily measure the cloud that was dispersed, your so called tip of the storm.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

You seem to think that I'm going to assume the storm that was dispersed is 20 kilometers in radius.
The thing is, I'm perfectly capable of measuring this "lip of the storm" using the island below.

I was assuming that is what you meant because you said "Nine's storm" and your original calc was Nine's storm and where the gigatons comes from. The lip is not going to yield gigatons results.

Using your scaling here means the cross section will be around 8km. The lip also can't be anywhere near 8km in length as the whole cloud is 8km in length and we see a stretch of cloudrising through . The lip is extending from the bottom of the whole cloud.

So I do agree with using that area to use for KE and then split down the middle for them. That is what I suggsted you do on my initial comment on your calc post.

My qualm was always using KE for the storm creation feat with 40km diameter and 8km length because KE wasn't used to create it. Second problem was splitting that value down the middle and applying it to Baku and Deku because they didn't disperse that mass of cloud.

 

[Therefir]

>Using your scaling here means the cross section will be around 8km. The lip also can't be anywhere near 8km in length as the whole cloud is 8km in length and we see a stretch of cloudrising through . The lip is extending from the bottom of the whole cloud.

Why do you think this cloud in the sky is specifically 8 kilometers tall once again? Do you have a prove that is not any higher or lower than that? I mean I could calculate its true height using the island, but you seem to think that it's better to assume its height rather than simply using the island below it.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Because you already have the volume of the whole cloud that Nine created. That is where you got the results for your KE calc in the first place. The length you used for the cylindrical volume was 8km because that is how how they get at low end. 20km radius and 8km height.

The light beam is the most accurate depiction and shows us the boys blast went through the 8km which is what allowed the light to filter in.

The lip cannot be anywhere near that big for this reason or you'd be saying: "X is my whole volume based on Y radius and Z height. Section Q is a small portion of X, yet has dimensions equal to or greater than Y or Z." Section Q can't have dimensions bigger than that. The lip of the cloud is extremely small comparitive to the whole storm( the lip would be extending downward from the start of the cloud that begins at 2 km her e). Which is why it makes sense that the boys only disispated 8km worth of the 40km radius for the whole storm. Likewise it makes no logical sense that the length of the lip be anywhere close to 8km. Or you'd be saying that the lip (which extends from the bottom of the cloud and downward) itself takes up space between the bottom of the whole cloud and the ground equal to the length of the entire cloud.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

"I would also like to mention that your method would make the main island a few hundred meters long, and the mountain in it like 80 meters tall, which is completely impossible even by the context of the movie, let alone the visuals."

No it wouldn't? I literally used the scaling you provided. The island is 2.33km in the scan you posted. Using the island to calc the main beam of light (the the offshooting aura). Using that scan you get the diameter (which is around 8km) of the hole the boys created (and thus how much cloud they dispersed.) and 8km is your height for the cylndical volume because the beam went through the top (hence how light is coming through.) of the whole storm. You used 8km for storm height.

 

[Therefir]

>Because you already have the volume of the whole cloud that Nine created. That is where you got the results for your KE calc in the first place. The length you used for the cylindrical volume was 8km because that is how how they get at low end. 20km radius and 8km height.

Can't we just ignore that calc please? I thought you wanted to discredit it, but now you are somehow using it to say that the cloud I'm measuring can't be anything higher than that.

I would also like to mention that your method would make the main island a few hundred meters long, and the mountain in it like 80 meters tall, which is completely impossible even by the context of the movie (a small part of the island under this mountain is home to thousands of people), and I wish you good luck trying to squeeze the fights of the film on a hundred-meter island, the forest, the buildings and all the thousand people that were sheltered in it.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

"Can't we just ignore that calc please? I thought you wanted to discredit it, but now you are somehow using it to say that the cloud I'm measuring can't be anything higher than that."

No? The calculation of storm size is still valid. You just can't apply a feat of moving it via KE because that never happened. The measurements used to derive a total mass of the cloud are still obviously valid and don't get thrown out? If it was good enough to use for a calc you thought was valid, then it will be good enough for your new calc.

I discredited you applying KE to the mass of the storm (because storm creation is latent heat of condensation) , not your methods for calcuating the measurements of the storm itself.

Now it seems like you are just trying to get biggatons.

 

[Therefir]

>No? The calculation of storm size is still valid. You just can't apply a feat of moving it via KE because that never happened. The measurements used to derive a total mass of the cloud are still obviously valid and don't get thrown out? If it was good enough to use for a calc you thought was valid, then it will be good enough for your new calc.

What measurements are you talking about? I simply assumed the size of the storm, and now you are using those same assumptions to discredit my scaling which is based on using the island, even when those assumptions make the islands incredibly tiny and completely inconsistent with what is shown in the film.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

>No? The calculation of storm size is still valid. You just can't apply a feat of moving it via KE because that never happened. The measurements used to derive a total mass of the cloud are still obviously valid and don't get thrown out? If it was good enough to use for a calc you thought was valid, then it will be good enough for your new calc.
What measurements are you talking about? I simply assumed the size of the storm, and now you are using those same assumptions to discredit my scaling which is based on using the island, even when those assumptions make the islands incredibly tiny and completely inconsistent with what is shown in the film.

Yes you assumed the measurements of the total storm. And in this vain calculated the whole storm size based on your best available means. Now that your original calc didn't pan out the way you wanted you don't just throw the measurements out of the window? That's disingenuous.

This is the storm You calced a volume/mass for this. The lip is no where near close to the mass of the whole cumulonimbus cloud, and it's not even much bigger than the island itself.

Deku and Baku dissipated the small lip at the bottom and all the way through the cumulonimbus. Which means a height of 8km for the volume they displaced. The diameter they displaced will be the same as the hole left in the base of the cloud. If it was bigger then more cloud would be displaced at the bottom. the hole's diameter is the same as measuring the diamter of the light beam that shines through.

If you get a height of say 8km for the lip that means the lip is as big as the whole cloud . Which clearly makes no sense given we know how big the lip is in comparison to the whole clou d,