Missing abilities on profiles for Dragon Ball, Z, Super, GT. Part 2

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yet in 7 years Gohan regresses. Or how in the HTC Goku and Gohan don't grow thousands of times stronger as that's not the gap between Semi Perfect and Perfect. Same with Ascended Super Saiyan and Vegeta's year. Or the lack of quantifiable boosts in the entirety of the Buu Saga.

 

[ProudLearner]

Yet in 7 years Gohan regresses. Or how in the HTC Goku and Gohan don't grow thousands of times stronger as that's not the gap between Semi Perfect and Perfect. Same with Ascended Super Saiyan and Vegeta's year. Or the lack of quantifiable boosts in the entirety of the Buu Saga.

Because when they don't train they get weaker.

Because Goku knew that SSj Grade 2 or 3 was useless so they needed to mastered SSJ to get stronger and not waste stamina. Also, awaken all the potential Gohan had at that time.

What boost are you talking about? Because it all makes sense through scailing.

 

[Kepekley23]

Except it contradicts what we've canonically known of Frieza since the 90s: that is power rapidly decreases when he's at his peak. I get that Frieza neutralized that but it's pretty bs to assume that it completely reversed and he gets stronger over time now. That's or just bad writing.

Slightly unrelated, but maybe it would be expected that a guy who was born with a power level of 120,000,000 and never had to train a day in his life would have some insane, unfathomable gains upon training. Even if logically not to the extent shown, him achieving, say, Cell-levels of power on that timeframe would be logical.

 

[IvoryAS]

More unrelated, but I'm fairly certain that Pure heart is necessary for every Super Saiyan with the exception of Broly (and maybe tingly back Caulifla)

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Might have been a dubism but didn't Vegeta claim he achieved it with a heart of pure 'evil'? Broly is also referred to as pure by Cheelai multiple times and is pretty clearly just an innocent guy with a mind that becomes unhinged as he grows stronger so I think he could potentially be 'pure of heart'.

 

[ProudLearner]

Well Vegeta did the SSJGod retual which you need to be pure heart so...

 

[CryoTheMayo]

That was nearly a decade after Vegeta unlocked Super Saiyan. He had all of his evil nature brought to the surface in the Buu saga, was sentenced to Hell and then redeemed himself by risking his entire existence to defeat Majin Buu. The blatantly evil Vegeta of the Android saga is nothing like the Anti-Hero of the Buu saga, let alone the mellowed out family man we see in Super.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Kep. I didn't mean Frieza doesn't have an insane growth stat, II meant Frieza doesn't get stronger throughout the course of a single battle.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Several battles in the span of less than an hour against increasingly more powerful opponents with Frieza displaying increasingly more impressive feats.

 

[AKM sama]

Acrobatics seems fine.

Freeza already has resistance to existence erasure.

We don't use powers from other wikis though.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I think the justification for resistance to Void Manipulation is due to Toppo's Hakai warping the World of Void itself.

 

[ProudLearner]

I think the justification for resistance to Void Manipulation is due to Toppo's Hakai warping the World of Void itself.

This.

Vegeta got it. Would it be obvious to give it to Frieza?

 

[ProudLearner]

The Summary of the Thread:

Both of this are obvious to be added!

(Rejected;Redundant) 'Son Goku (Dragon Ball Super) and Broly (Dragon Ball Super) Gogeta (Dragon Ball Super) 'Resistance to Magma Here

Acrobatics will take long to add to all Dragon Ball characters for one Staff member to do it. Maybe ask for help @AKM sama or maybe other staff that are participationg in the thread could help out?

Other Users addition:

(Solved) @CryoTheMayo had a good resoning for Accelerated Development for Frieza which other users agreed including (@Kepekley23, @The real cal howard, and others) Although, @The real cal howard disagrees with Reactive Power Level for Frieza. I do not know if he conceded to it.

@Stefan4444

Needs to add more input to Limited Power Nullification for Kiai Keshi users like Son Goku and Tie.

(Rejected) I agreed on Vibration Manipulation (It could go as Air Manipulation ) for Kiai Users. Although I don't know what others think about it! Example: Son Goku (DBS) via Soaring Fist as showned in : Here and Here

I disagree o Limited Durability Negation for Destructo Disk users. Although, I don't know what others think about it!

(Solved) I Agreed on Explosion Manipulation For Nappa via Blazing Storm , For Vegeta via Dirty Fireworks . Although, I don't know what others think about it!

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

Frieza has Explosion Manipulation as well

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Actually, shouldn't Frieza and Vegeta have a form of durability negation? Frieza imploded Krillin internally and Vegeta imploded a Saibaman and Cui interally with Dirty Fireworks. I seem to recall Hit's justification for durability negation is specifically due to his ability to punch his opponents internally via his intangible shockwaves.

 

[AKM sama]

Vegeta's was kiai, and Freeza's was explosion manipulation. It only seems to work on weaker opponents, as Freeza only ever used it on Krillin and those U9 goons. I don't think it negates durability or Freeza would have used it on Goku/Vegeta/Beerus.

 

[AguilaR101]

Shouldn't Vegeta, Goku and Jiren have Space-time destruction and resistance to it for the following feats?

-Vegeta destroys the RoSaT

-Goku breaks trough Hit's pocket dimension

-Jiren does it here with a punch

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Wouldn't everyone who is Low 2-C have spacetime destruction?

 

[AguilaR101]

Those happened when they were 3-A

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

No because destroying space-time is AP when you're Low 2-C.

 

[AguilaR101]

No because destroying space-time is AP when you're Low 2-C.

If that were the case everyone would have it by default, we don't skip listing abilities just because they're tied to AP. and again, Goku and Vegeta did it in their 3-A keys.

 

[AKM sama]

Now that I got some time, I'll get the stuff in the OP out of the way:

Already said Acrobatics is fine.

Resistance to Magma is redundant when it is basically just resistance to heat, which they have listed on their profiles, even though that is redundant too because characters at that level can shrug off this level of heat. So no.

Freeza's resistance to void manipulation is also redundant...but meh ok.

 

[AKM sama]

Should Gogeta get electricity manipulation?
https://youtu.be/9SypIwRLg_Q

^Here at 7:05 and onward.

That last punch at 7:35 looks like some kind of electric shock + telekinesis + explosion manipulation.

I also agree with Accelerated Development for Freeza, but disagree with Reactive Power Level. ToP is inconsistent at times and that's why we treat 17's sudden increase as outlier. Freeza's not different. He never grew stronger in any of his past fights from DBZ to DBS, and even then he was comparable to SSB level Dyspo, not much stronger than him.

Ki generating heat is nothing new tbh, most energy attacks generate heat. I don't think mentioning it in every single profile is necessary.

Explosion Manipulation via Blazing Storm and Dirty Fireworks seems fine.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

They should actually add SSG Goku's Ki attack he used against Broly to Stop him

 

[ProudLearner]

@AKM sama

What about Vibration Manipulation (It could go as Air Manipulation? ) for Kiai Users.

Example: Son Goku (DBS) via Soaring Fist as showned in : Here and Here

 

[ProudLearner]

They should actually add SSG Goku's Ki attack he used against Broly to Stop him

That has been added to Goku its Paralysis Inducement,

 

[CryoTheMayo]

and even then he was comparable to SSB level Dyspo, not much stronger than him.

Ki generating heat is nothing new tbh, most energy attacks generate heat. I don't think mentioning it in every single profile is necessary.

Explosion Manipulation via Blazing Storm and Dirty Fireworks seems fine.

and that's why we treat 17's sudden increase as outlier.

I can only assume this refers to him taking blows for SSBE Vegeta. Any other instance of 17 having potential outliers is him nearly killing himself multiple times to hurt Jiren or handwave as 'Jiren was offguard!'

He never grew stronger in any of his past fights from DBZ to DBS,

Sorry, but I already addressed this.

Frieza wasn't surpassed until Goku went Super Saiyan. When Goku went Super Saiyan, Frieza went 100% and was draining his stamina so badly that Goku claimed Frieza was losing strength with every punch.

On Earth, Frieza was killed almost instantly by Future Trunks and was a cyborg (meaning his natural bodily evolution would have likely been impacted. Ki is based on Physical and Mental health after all).

In RoF, on Earth, Frieza was dominating Goku in Golden but rapidly lost his power from the drawback of Golden.

The Tournament of Power and Broly film are the only periods in time where Frieza would have grown stronger via Reactive Power Level. ToP has many instances of Frieza being far stronger than Pre-ToP and we didn't see enough of Broly VS Frieza to judge if Frieza grew stronger as they fought. It would certainly make him fighting Broly for over an hour more reasonable though.

he was comparable to SSB level Dyspo, not much stronger than him.

Objectively incorrect. Here is Base Frieza (who has been argued to be comparable to SSG Goku) taking no damage from Dyspo's relentless assault and even catching Dyspo at the end. This is Golden Frieza blitzing Dyspo and no-selling Dyspo's punch without a flinch. It also shows Frieza blocking or dodging all of Maximum Dyspo's attacks. He was only unable to escape from Dyspo's superspeed assault, pressuring him closer to the edge of the stage.

Dyspo was unable to harm Frieza even once. Base Frieza could catch Dyspo. Golden Frieza blitzes Light Speed Dyspo and Golden Frieza can dodge or block all of Maximum Light Speed Dyspo's attacks.

At no point was Dyspo comparable to Frieza statistically. He only ever surpassed Frieza in speed and that was only with Maximum Light Bullet. Compare to SSB Goku being unable to hit Baseline Light Bullet Dyspo.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Also, I never noticed this before. At the 2:03 mark in the second link. Look closely when the Zeno twins try to use the GodPad. You can't see Dyspo OR Frieza but you can clearly make out clashes between two forces (likely Frieza and Dyspo). The Zeno Twins didn't require the GodPad for UIO1 or UIO2 Goku. The Grand Priest even states that Dyspo's speed is 'far beyond the capacity of the GodPad'.

This means Dyspo is faster than UIO2 Goku. Frieza can dodge or block all of the attacks of someone faster than UIO2 Goku and, considering he isn't visible on the GodPad either and you can clearly see two forces clashing...It seems Frieza would also be faster than UIO2 Goku.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Or...maybe, just maybe...

That arc is inconsistent af.


...something tells me that was too sarcastic of me

 

[CryoTheMayo]

ToP does have inconsistency issues but that primarily has to do with Goku. If my argument were to be debunked based on inconsistency issues, then I'd prefer if those inconsistencies were shown to be by Frieza himself.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

Or...maybe, just maybe...
That arc is inconsistent af.


...something tells me that was too sarcastic of me

It was ƒæ╗

 

[Kepekley23]

What clued you in?

the god-tier Master Roshi who scares even Jiren away and has UI in the manga?

 

[HST_Master]

What clued you in?

the god-tier Master Roshi who scares even Jiren away and has UI in the manga?

"Ultimate Battle Intensifies"

 

[PaChi2]

I fail to see how 2 Low 2-Cs have "resistance to magma" based on passing through actual magma. They are Low 2-Cs.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

I fail to see how 2 Low 2-Cs have "resistance to magma" based on passing through actual magma. They are Low 2-Cs.

When Zeno erases Merged Zamasu with the entire universe all that left was just an empty void (An empty void which is shiny white) and where still able to breath so ya Toriyama just does not care

 

[ProudLearner]

When Zeno erases Merged Zamasu with the entire universe all that left was just an empty void (An empty void which is shiny white) and where still able to breath so ya Toriyama just does not care

Don't talk about that here because it will derail everything!

 

[ProudLearner]

Okay.

70 plus messages and one ability was added.

Before I add more abilities, resoved the ones that were agreed upon.

1. Acrobatics for all Dragon Ball Characters

(Solved) 2. Accelerated Development for Frieza

(Solved) 3. Explosion Manipulation for Nappa Via Blazing Storm; For Vegeta Via Dirty Fireworks

 

[AKM sama]

Base Freeza keeping up with an SSB tier character is a massive and obvious outlier, when it was already established that Golden Freeza was SSB level before the ToP began.

Ryukama had already debunked the "Zeno not being able to see" argument long ago. That whole conundrum is just used to hype Dyspo's speed and doesn't make any sense. They only bring the Godpad into focus when hyping up Dyspo, despite him being slower than UIO1 (UIO1 Goku swatted him away like nothing and UIO1 vs Jiren was a faster fight), UIO2 (Kefla vs UIO2 was a far faster fight than Dyspo vs Hit), GoD Toppo vs SSBE Vegeta, UIO3 (Jiren vs UIO3 was far faster than Dyspo vs Freeza) and UI Goku when they never brought it up.

There are clear inconsistencies throughout the ToP and not everything has to be treated as legit.

And yes, Maximum Dyspo was comparable to Golden Freeza in strength as he was able to push him back and even harmed him in a straight clash. Freeza didn't stonewall his attacks like Jiren did to Goku in episode 109. Nor was he casual against him like Jiren was against SSB Goku. He was clearly having problems, which he wouldn't have had if they were only about "speed" and no power.

 

[AKM sama]

@AKM sama
What about Vibration Manipulation (It could go as Air Manipulation? ) for Kiai Users.

Example: Son Goku (DBS) via Soaring Fist as showned in : Here and Here

That's just a shockwave generated by his punch. It isn't vibration manipulation for sure. Though I'm not sure about the one against shirtless Jiren. Just one shockwave was enough to deal multiple hits, so it looks like it could be air manipulation. But seems like a one-off thing.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Base Freeza keeping up with an SSB tier character is a massive and obvious outlier, when it was already established that Golden Freeza was SSB level before the ToP began.

This is contradictory to the topic. I am arguing that Frieza ISN'T SSB-level at that time due to him having a Reactive Power Level that made him grow much stronger over the course of the ToP. So arguing that 'Golden Freeza was SSB level before the ToP began' has no bearing on the argument.

Arguing Base Frieza 'keeping up with an SSB tier character' also makes no sense. Again, Dyspo has no feats of scaling to SSB Goku in AP, outside of injuring Hit (who didn't grow notably until he adapted to Jiren) who scales to SSG Goku in the ToP. The only times Dyspo has ever done anything of note with scaling is his speed. Dyspo's AP is closer to SSG Goku and his speed is the only thing superior to SSB Goku. Base Frieza no-selled Dyspo's attacks and was capable of catching him off-guard. It was Golden Frieza that legitimately competed with Dyspo's speed.

Ryukama had already debunked the "Zeno not being able to see" argument long ago.

Can you link his 'debunking' of it for me? Lack of context makes it hard to argue.

(UIO1 Goku swatted him away like nothing and UIO1 vs Jiren was a faster fight),

We don't even know if Dyspo was using Light Bullet. In-fact, Toppo and Dyspo were moving at the exact same speed and Dyspo has to concentrate to use Light Bullet, so claiming he was using it is just wrong. To add further, he only used his Maximum against Golden Frieza. What evidence is there of UIO1 vs Jiren being a faster fight?

Kefla vs UIO2 was a far faster fight than Dyspo vs Hit)

Again, evidence of it being 'far faster' as a fight?

GoD Toppo vs SSBE Vegeta, UIO3 (Jiren vs UIO3 was far faster than Dyspo vs Freeza) and UI Goku when they never brought it up.

All of those characters are vastly superior to Dyspo in AP and arguably speed. Toppo curbstomped Frieza effortlessly after Frieza contended with Dyspo's maximum speed, which is, at most, faster than UIO2 Goku. To add further, the GodPad being unable to perceive Dyspo and Frieza has no reason to be mentioned again, when the characters after were clearly far more powerful and dangerous.

There are clear inconsistencies throughout the ToP and not everything has to be treated as legit.

No one has mentioned inconsistencies involving Frieza having Reactive Power Level as of yet and just because 'not everything has to be treated as legit' doesn't mean that nothing is legit in the ToP. Otherwise, Goku wouldn't be Low 2-C in SSB Post-UIO2.

Again, I want actual argument against Frieza having Reactive Power Level, instead of reverting to 'ToP has inconsistencies'.

And yes, Maximum Dyspo was comparable to Golden Freeza in strength as he was able to push him back and even harmed him in a straight clash.

...No. Can you please watch the links I posted? Golden Frieza was hit ONCE by pure surprise. He blocked and dodged every other attack of Maximum Dyspo and displays absolutely zero bruising, dirt, damage, exhaustion, etc. Frieza wasn't harmed even ONCE as Golden. Your only argument here is that Dyspo was pushing Frieza back...except, Frieza had to dodge and block someone too fast for Champa to see, hard for Vados to see and impossible for the GodPad to render, constantly.

You also have to consider basic things with speed, like velocity and force. Dyspo's attacks would have had more power simply due to the speed and ferocity of his attacks. Hell, we have direct scaling with Frieza in the Namek saga. 50% Frieza was bruised by holding off X20 Goku's Super Kamehameha with one hand. Dyspo couldn't even bruise Frieza once.

Freeza didn't stonewall his attacks like Jiren did to Goku in episode 109.

>Comparing Frieza vs Dyspo to Jiren vs Pre-UIO Goku

Sorry but why are you doing that? I guess the rationale is that UIO2 Goku is Low 2-C and arguing that Dyspo and Frieza are faster would scale them to that? That's fair for arguing against them scaling to UIO2 Goku (due to Frieza not stonewalling Dyspo, who should be somewhere between Pre-UIO1 SSG and SSB Goku in AP) but it's certainly not an argument against Frieza having Reactive Power Level.

. He was clearly having problems, which he wouldn't have had if they were only about "speed" and no power.

Again, he took no damage from Dyspo. He was only pushed back by Dyspo's absolute maximum speed. So let's scale this.

Maximum Dyspo (Speed) >> Golden Frieza >> Light Bullet Dyspo > Frieza >/= Pre-UIO1 Goku Blue = Pre-ToP Golden Frieza

Also, consider that Golden is much stronger than Blue. So if Base Frieza scales to Pre-UIO1 SSG Goku, he would already be much stronger than Pre-UIO1 Goku Blue.