Minamoto no Raikou VS Cu Chulainn

[Adrianelloxd]

Onto my first Raikou match!
Since I was told Raikou VS Cu would be a great fight, here it is, tell me if I should change anything if this Is a stomp.

They stand in front of the Sydney opera house, disagreeing over whether Nero's singing was horrible or great, there's only one way to see who's correct, a literal duel to the death.

Base Raikou and Base Cu​

Both in-character​

EDIT: They do have prior knowledge of each other​

The battle takes place in front of the Sydney Opera​

SBA otherwise​

​

The savage Irish dog: @thesurvivlist @Veloxt1r0kore @GlaceonGamez471 @TrueKingOfHeroes @Adrianelloxd @Starter_Pack @Migue79

The mad-am Oni:

Inconclusive:

VS

 

[Apeironaxim]

So what stops Cu from near instantly using Gae Bolg and winning

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So what stops Cu from near instantly using Gae Bolg and winning

Thats is without contest, however she can still pummeled him with Mana Burst and Mystery Killer so that give her an AP advantage

 

[Apeironaxim]

The problem is that Cu is faster and more agile (his A rank Agility vs Raikou's D rank Agility), so he has more time and ability to survive and observe. And then that goes into the Gae Bolg problem, because Cu literally used it/was going to use it in every fight he was in in FSN, and he can use it 7 times in a row before he needs to get more mana. The man does not hesitate at all to use Gae Bolg, and Raikou just doesn't have the Luck needed to stop that

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Not gonna lie, but I have problems seeing Cu surviving because the bastard always find the way to die.

That aside though, the causality thing would be capable of work against Raikou? I mean, yes she don't have the needed luck to ignore it but the weakness section of Cu mention this:

The Barbed Spear can potentially be avoided if Lancer's opponent is sufficiently lucky or has a degree of divine protection

And since Raikou is the daughter of Indra and also his avatar it shouldn't work against her right?

 

[Apeironaxim]

Maybe? The link that seems like it would explain that won't work for me, but I doubt it'll go in depth on the divine part. The issue there is would Raikou's be enough, assuming we're not given a Rank limit for that Divine protection weakness? Sure she has Divinity, but it's actually lower than Cu's, with hers being a C Rank to his B rank. Assuming the Divine protection part isn't expounded upon, then I would probably lean to either voting Cu due to assuming Raikou's divinity might not be enough, or incon due to the unknown nature of the divine protection weakness and whether it would come into play with Raikou's divinity being C Rank/lower than Cu's

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Maybe? The link that seems like it would explain that won't work for me, but I doubt it'll go in depth on the divine part. The issue there is would Raikou's be enough, assuming we're not given a Rank limit for that Divine protection weakness? Sure she has Divinity, but it's actually lower than Cu's, with hers being a C Rank to his B rank. Assuming the Divine protection part isn't expounded upon, then I would probably lean to either voting Cu due to assuming Raikou's divinity might not be enough, or incon due to the unknown nature of the divine protection weakness and whether it would come into play with Raikou's divinity being C Rank/lower than Cu's

Actually her Divinity is just Rank C because she is purposely restricting herself from using her divine power in this, but she can increase her divine power if wanted (like when she summoned the Vajra of Indra), so in context she probably have enough divine protection though that's my opinion so if someone know more about the divine weakness then could explain more this.

Edit: Also to add more about the Divinity Rank of Raikou, Suzuka admitted how Raikou is far above herself in divine rank despite the fact that Suzuka have a Rank B-A (Sometimes seem to be B while others times like in her profile of GO is A).

 

[Apeironaxim]

Even then she has C rank in the moment, and since they have no prior knowledge, Raikou wouldn't know to crank up her Divinity in response to Gae Bolg, since she doesn't do it a majority of her fights pretty sure. So effectively can she have higher Divinity? Sure, but that won't matter if she doesn't decide to crank it up when Cu uses Gae Bolg for literally. Though obviously that's all mute if there's enough context to say she'd be fine anyway, so yeah it really is just down to seeing if there's more to the weakness

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

I think Raikou would have a higher divinity than Cu if she wants to increase her divinity, but in character it seems a bit unlikely because she hates her divinity so much.

 

[Adrianelloxd]

If making both have prior knowledge of each other makes this more interesting i can edit that in.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Most of my Raikou matches had a prior knowledge, maybe this would be helpful for this fight

 

[Paul_Frank]

The Divine protection thing is definitely not just having a high rank of divinity, considering Gae Bolg works on Herc, who has an A rank, so I doubt that would help

 

[Adrianelloxd]

Most of my Raikou matches had a prior knowledge, maybe this would be helpful for this fight

I edited it to fit in with the other Raikou matches.

 

[Apeironaxim]

well there's no details of what kind of prior knowledge, but either way

The Divine protection thing is definitely not just having a high rank of divinity, considering Gae Bolg works on Herc, who has an A rank, so I doubt that would help

considering this, giving prior knowledge possibly makes this even worse for Raikou. If Cu has an idea of how strong she is, dude is literally going to pull out Gae Bolg the instant the fight starts

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Same can be said to Cu, now Raikou know how Gae Bolg work, she can likely figuring it out how to deal with it (AP boost + Her NP sequences off-the bat)

 

[Apeironaxim]

She doesn't have the time tbh, they're gonna be 4km away, and Gae Bolg doesn't exactly have travel time

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Didn't the casuality NP had a weakness of low range? As far I know the NP that actually have a long range is the danmaku one.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Maybe? Been a while since i looked at FSN. Tbh the prior knowledge thing is kinda dumb. There's no indication on what amount of prior knowledge they have. Do they just have a decent idea of each other's general strength? Do they know literally every skill, NP, Rank and Parameter they each have? These kind of things tend to heavily influence matches

 

[Apeironaxim]

Didn't the casuality NP had a weakness of low range? As far I know the NP that actually have a long range is the danmaku one.

Even then, if we wanna assume they each go for their NPs immediately due to prior knowledge making them wanna end the fight asap, Cu still outranges hard with that danmaku Gae Bolg, so that still would get him the win anyway

 

[Paul_Frank]

Even with prior knowledge, there's a larger chance than not that Raikou tries to cqc (that's most of her stuff) and gets hit for it

If you assume she'd just sit back and try to outrange it, there's the issue of the planetary range 40km version that also homes, has huge aoe danmaku, and is so strong that even something made to conceptually block any ranged attack gets broken through while being amped

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Something more than I thought before, Raikou could the clones so Gae Bolg pierce one of them instead of the real her? That could be a potential way to more or less counter it.

And about the prior knowledge I honestly from the beginning already assumed they had a certain level of knowledge of the other since both are servants relatively famous, at least most of the time when someone encounter them they discover who they are relatively quickly.

 

[Apeironaxim]

I don't see how using clones would work. There's more than enough to kill Raikou more than a dozen times over. I also highly doubt its property of "will strike the opponent no matter how much it is dodged" will be fooled by like 3-4 clones. Cu just wins this. Voting Cu, if it's not a stomp

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Cu must attack the clone if he wants to attack Raikou, because the real Raikou must be far behind. Raikou still has a chance to use her high AoE Mana Burst or even use her final NPs attacks.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Cu must attack the clone if he wants to attack Raikou, because the real Raikou must be far behind. Raikou still has a chance to use her high AoE Mana Burst or even use her final NPs attacks.

No? It will home in on Raikou, and has 40km range (which will become planetary range), Raikou isn't dodging or getting away from it. It's just not happening

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Tecnically if Cu accidentally target one of the clones with the Barbed Spear the causality hax should pierce the clone heart instead of the real Raikou heart, that's why I mentioned the clone part so is possible that she use that as a way to counter it and counterattack, this would need her using clones before he activate Barbed Spear which could be possible if she know the legend of Gae Bolg. In the scenario of the Barbed Spear also exist the posibility of Cu piercing Raikou heart but she also end killing him (be it with a clone attack, a Mana Burst explosion from close range or just by making a last push and landing a fatal blow in exchange of his spear).

If instead Cu use the Soaring Spear then the only real way Raikou have would be trying to counter with her own NP and that both null between themselves. In this case both would end exhausted in mana reserves so it probably would come down to a physical fight in which Raikou would have the advantage.

In general Cu probably have more chances in the end honestly.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Tecnically if Cu accidentally target one of the clones with the Barbed Spear the causality hax should pierce the clone heart instead of the real Raikou heart, that's why I mentioned the clone part so is possible that she use that as a way to counter it and counterattack, this would need her using clones before he activate Barbed Spear which could be possible if she know the legend of Gae Bolg. In the scenario of the Barbed Spear also exist the posibility of Cu piercing Raikou heart but she also end killing him.

If instead Cu use the Soaring Spear then the only real way Raikou have would be trying to counter with her own NP and that both null between themselves. In this case both would end exhausted in mana reserves so it probably would come down to a physical fight in which Raikou would have the advantage.

In general Cu probably have more chances in the end honestly.

Saying Barbed Spear would target a clone and not Raikou is a really weird assumption with no backing tbh. And since we're assuming they have prior knowledge, Cu probably just uses Soaring Spear and kills her right away. They'll be 4 km apart, Soaring Spear has 40 km of range, while Raikou at her best is hundreds of meters of range. Raikou is not countering Soaring Spear, not even Rho Aias could stop it, and that was literally made to conceptually block ranged attacks.

I'm gonna be honest with you, this is pretty much a stomp. In a scenario of no prior knowledge, there's simply no way Raikou kills Cu fast enough in CQC before Cu pulls out Barbed Spear, especially considering he has notably higher ranked Agility, and Disengage. In the scenario of prior knowledge, Cu is very likely to go for Soaring Spear right away, which Raikou has no chance of dodging or blocking/nullifying either. She really can't do much of anything here

 

[Paul_Frank]

Tecnically if Cu accidentally target one of the clones with the Barbed Spear the causality hax should pierce the clone heart instead of the real Raikou heart, that's why I mentioned the clone part so is possible that she use that as a way to counter it and counterattack, this would need her using clones before he activate Barbed Spear which could be possible if she know the legend of Gae Bolg.

Its unlikely that even considering best scenario for her, (if she used the clones before he did anything, then got into range and went for cqc and he went for barbed spear) that he'd hit her clones instead of her, as Cu's skill with anything magic related is high enough he can generally just see through it, i.e when he looked at the school, realized the nature of Rider's NP, how he could turn stop it, and then decided not to, and was also able to tell who's bounded field it was, and other such cases. So it's arguable that he just, knows which are the clones as opposed to her

In the scenario of the Barbed Spear also exist the posibility of Cu piercing Raikou heart but she also end killing him (be it with a clone attack, a Mana Burst explosion from close range or just by making a last push and landing a fatal blow in exchange of his spear).

This one is very unlikely, ignoring the fact that it's like, notably impossible to survive the NP (the whole "it does your max hp+it's own damage as damage" and tears your insides apart with barbs), she wouldn't get to counter attack, because she can't actually respond to the activation of the NP before being hit, that's the entire point of it

If instead Cu use the Soaring Spear then the only real way Raikou have would be trying to counter with her own NP and that both null between themselves. In this case both would end exhausted in mana reserves so it probably would come down to a physical fight in which Raikou would have the advantage.

If we assume Cu just runs out of energy after one toss, and Raikou and him just do a pure brawl, ignoring the very high chance he still has enough to use his very cheap barbed spear, in that one scenario, she might win but that's like, generally it

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Saying Barbed Spear would target a clone and not Raikou is a really weird assumption with no backing tbh. And since we're assuming they have prior knowledge, Cu probably just uses Soaring Spear and kills her right away. They'll be 4 km apart, Soaring Spear has 40 km of range, while Raikou at her best is hundreds of meters of range. Raikou is not countering Soaring Spear, not even Rho Aias could stop it, and that was literally made to conceptually block ranged attacks.

I mean, is equally an assumption that even if Cu accidentally target a clone the spear would pierce the true body heart instead of the clone heart. She don't really need to cover 4km to hit with her NP the spear when it's mid flight coming to her, also the point is that Soaring Spear can specifically be blocked by things that can overwhelm the magical energy of the NP, Cu total mana reserves is Rank C while Raikou are A and both of them put all their mana in their NP, additionally there is also how Ox-King is Low 6-B so it have the strength to also overwhelm it.

Its unlikely that even considering best scenario for her, (if she used the clones before he did anything, then got into range and went for cqc and he went for barbed spear) that he'd hit her clones instead of her, as Cu's skill with anything magic related is high enough he can generally just see through it, i.e when he looked at the school, realized the nature of Rider's NP, how he could turn stop it, and then decided not to, and was also able to tell who's bounded field it was, and other such cases. So it's arguable that he just, knows which are the clones as opposed to her

This one is very unlikely, ignoring the fact that it's like, notably impossible to survive the NP (the whole "it does your max hp+it's own damage as damage" and tears your insides apart with barbs), she wouldn't get to counter attack, because she can't actually respond to the activation of the NP before being hit, that's the entire point of it

If we assume Cu just runs out of energy after one toss, and Raikou and him just do a pure brawl, ignoring the very high chance he still has enough to use his very cheap barbed spear, in that one scenario, she might win but that's like, generally it

That he could notice the real Raikou is also a possibility, though since Raikou clones technique should scale above Kotarou and Ushiwakamaru there is also the possibility of him not noticing though still fair point.

I mean, even after somone have their heart pierced they don't instantly die (as far I remember) and still have some seconds before they fall, so I was talking about she using those second to counterattack and take Cu down.

I mean, is explicitly tell that Soaring Spear use all his mana and after use it Cu is also exhausted, the profile also mention how he can't use Barbed Spear after Soaring Spear do to not having enough mana left (also while Barbed Spear have a low consumption Cu still can only use it 7 times without his master help, which mean that it consume 1/7 of his total mana which overall isn't much but also isn't exactly really low).

I just think that Raikou actually have chances and could pull them, but just that, I'm not saying that she will win and instead actually said that Cu have better chances. If is considered that this is actually a stomp or not is other thing.

 

[Apeironaxim]

I mean, is equally an assumption that even if Cu accidentally target a clone the spear would pierce the true body heart instead of the clone heart. She don't really need to cover 4km to hit with her NP the spear when it's mid flight coming to her, also the point is that Soaring Spear can specifically be blocked by things that can overwhelm the magical energy of the NP, Cu total mana reserves is Rank C while Raikou are A and both of them put all their mana in their NP, additionally there is also how Ox-King is Low 6-B so it have the strength to also overwhelm it.

The description for Soaring Spear says it "cannot be dodged or blocked under normal circumstances, requiring the use of a shield specialized in protecting against thrown spears to hold it back. Even if it is somehow avoided, it will still strike its opponent, homing in on them.", so her trying to hit it won't do anything. And no, the magical energy thing is specifically listed in Barbed Spear, so that's not working. Raikou's NP isn't countering it, straight up not happening. If a conceptual defense against ranged attacks, which was buffed btw, isn't enough, then her NP won't be. To make the argument of Raikou somehow trying to hit the NP with hers even more invalid, Rho Aias, which again, failed to block Soaring Spear even while buffed, was able to block Exaclibur Morgan when it was used by Shirou, which as you know is also Low 6-B. Raikou isn't stopping Soaring Spear, she just can't.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

The description for Soaring Spear says it "cannot be dodged or blocked under normal circumstances, requiring the use of a shield specialized in protecting against thrown spears to hold it back. Even if it is somehow avoided, it will still strike its opponent, homing in on them.", so her trying to hit it won't do anything. And no, the magical energy thing is specifically listed in Barbed Spear, so that's not working. Raikou's NP isn't countering it, straight up not happening. If a conceptual defense against ranged attacks, which was buffed btw, isn't enough, then her NP won't be. To make the argument of Raikou somehow trying to hit the NP with hers even more invalid, Rho Aias, which again, failed to block Soaring Spear even while buffed, was able to block Exaclibur Morgan when it was used by Shirou, which as you know is also Low 6-B. Raikou isn't stopping Soaring Spear, she just can't.

NLF

 

[Paul_Frank]

NLF doesn't really work when it's an in universe battle and whats been brought up are in universe statements and feats

It's not like someone's arguing a low 2-C barrier from X verse won't work on Gae Bolg or something, this is still all in the confines of the same verse's feats kek

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Yeah pretty much lel
Guesa Cu take this mid-diff?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Bump!!

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Bump!!

 

[Adrianelloxd]

I think Gae Bolg is the deciding factor in this really, seeing the arguments for Cu, Raikou doesn't seem very likely to have much to counter with.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Bump!! Do you have anything more to say? @Expectro2000xxx

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

No.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

No.

Very straightforward, guess Cu really take this

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Anyway i believe that there's no vote yet, right?

 

[thesurvivlist]

Anyway i believe that there's no vote yet, right?

Well, theirs one vote now. Cu FRA.