Slowly walking toward snake? You mean the same Gray Fox who fought Snake at Mach speeds while bullets whizzed by them, who has afterimage filters on all his attacks and proceeds to go mach speeds mid fight? Asking him to hurt him? Uh, yes, and? Bloodknight, wants to feel the thrill of battle again.
Honest question, how many people here have played the MSX games or port ops? Because none of you are even trying to hide the fact you haven't and it's getting annoying debating shit explained in other games. Like, you do know Gray Fox is in other games?
"Once Gray Fox picks a target, he never holds back".
I'm going to be blunt, the very notion of "well Gray Fox was holding back" is ridiculous, it's complete and utter bullshit. We are told he's going all out, we are told he's trying to kill Snake, we are even shown he's trying to kill Snake several times, we are told that he's complete dead set on having a hand to hand death match with Snake, we are told he's completely irrational in this aspect and is tunneled vision on this and will do everything he can to get in this death match (it's quite literally why he helps Snake throughout the game, just so he can get his death match, he himself at one point even says he killed all the soldiers around the area so that nothing would interfere with their death match, hell it's even hinted that he only goes into maximum overdrive when fighting hand to hand), the reason why he throws down his weapon is explained and detailed multiple times over with the reason being that he wants a hand to hand death match like he had in zanzibar land, hand to hand is the most raw form of fighting and he thinks weapons lack honor (he quite literally says this himself, twice) and gray fox is all about the honorable gladiator death match shit, his "make me hurt more" line is explained QUITE LITERALLY in that very scene by he himself, he wants to feel the PAIN of battle again, when he asks Snake to hurt him more it's because he's enjoying the fight and makes him feel alive again as the only thing he ever lived for is the thrill of the fight (this is stated in MULTIPLE GAMES, even later on in this very game) We know from his past that Gray Fox as a rule, never holds back in a fight (to the point it's literally stated he always goes all out and never holds back), this is further detailed as his time as Null when he always goes all out and will do everything he can to fight his target and kill them, albeit after encountering Big Boss he goes about it in a honorable way due to Big Boss inciting such intense emotions in him. And the whole "well he wanted to die to snake" is a half truth at that, it's not like he was just gonna let Snake kill him, no, he very clearly and explicitly wanted, in his own words, even when explaining that he wanted death, makes it clear he wanted to die in a life and death match with Snake with both going all in like in Zanzibar Land, and it's not even "he wanted to die to Snake", that's misleading, the actual context was "he thought Snake was the only person able to kill him" because everybody else sucked dick. I'm honestly baffled at how this is even an actual debate that is happening, there's one thing thinking it's an outlier, but nobody in their right mind can actually think Gray Fox was holding back at all when every single discrepancy is explained and we're told and reiterated multiple times the context, goals and intent of every character involved. Like ****, the ONLY thing that possibly hints at Gray Fox maybe holding back is "well he appears fast at certain points", as if that actually effects if Gray Fox was holding back, especially as it's outright shown Solid is capable of harming him to a good extent physically and the fact Gray Fox doesn't even hold back on his speed in the fight, the ****** still zips around, has afterimages and basically teleports and Solid still manages to kick his face in physically even while Gray Fox is using his superspeed so even if you argue Gray Fox is faster than Snake (tbf I would have maybe agreed, to a extent, if Null didn't exist), he still uses said speed in fight meaning him holding back because he sometimes appears fast in TTS doesn't work because in TTS he USES said speed in the fight so if he's not pulling the single aspect he may be better in, he sure as **** ain't pulling his strength either.
Striking strength doesn't equal lifting strength in general, sure, but there's always at least some correlation, the times it isnt are the exceptions not the rule. But, if you're physically on par with someone, if not above, said person who can lift said things (someone mentioned Gray Fox tossing Rex through the roof at one point, funnily enough, Gray Fox does toss REX and put it on its ass in the ashley wood comic), and there's absolutely zero distinction between lifting strength and striking strength being drastically different (news flash, that isn't how it works, especially in grapple and holds the verse, the only argument here would be that Snake just so happens to hit harder because his strikes are faster than Gray Fox's, otherwise there's zero reason as to why Snake would be able to hit harder, but given its being argued he's SLOWER, you see the issue with that correct? This is without getting into the fact some of gray fox's strength comes from being injected with big boss dna and the perfect soldier program, which actualy lead way to the Genome Soldier project as Gray Fox was used as the experiment, and exosuits? Snake has fought MANY exosuits post MGS1, all of which should be superior to Gray Fox, like, reminder Gray Fox's exosuit was a half baked prototype, that is later built and expanded upon, by the time of 4, even 2, exosuits of varying technologies are in usage, and Snake can kick all their asses physically and grapple them).
No, we don't agree he's weaker than Gray Fox, the fact he can get his face smashed in like two dozen times by Ocelot in MGS4 confirms he ain't as Ocelot's cyborg arm>>whatever Gray Fox has, let alone the fact he can hit Gray Fox so hard we can literally hear the crunching sounds (newton's third law says hi) and Gray Fox is physically harmed by said strikes, and Gray Fox held REX up with little effort with zero damage. I don't think I have to explain the correlation here of how Solid's strikes being enough to make Gray Fox reel in pain and damage puts Solid on his level physically, if not higher.
And congratulations on bringing up something that was already talked about pages ago, you've read the thread right? That was rhetorical, unless you got something new to add don't bother. (Ignoring that Solid actually does manage to get out immediately after with seemingly little effort, sure as hell wasnt due to Meryl given he's helping her out, not to mention that sequence is removed in all following versions of the story, from TTS to even the Digital comic by Ashley Wood, featured in the Legacy Collection having him being under the jeep gone and instead has him face to face with Liquid which im lowkey certain is referenced in mgs4).
On a different note, hey, found another good LS feat (likely three and a half actually). Hell found a bunch of other feats too ranging from mindhax resistance, massive heat resistance, more radiation resistance, social influencing resistance, precog resistance, etc. Snake survives a rocket launch near the epicenter and he walks that shit off despite getting caught in the explosion from, well idk I have to pixel scale it later but it cant be that far.
But yes let's focus on a anti-feat (ignoring he proceeds to get out moments later) that doesn't even exist in later games (removed in tts) and is made laughable by Solid's very own casual bit feats throughout the games let alone others (there's seemingly a good handful of multi ton feats in 4 at his worst). If you want to use an anti-feat, use one that isn't made laughable by even the verse's most basic ass lifting feats done with zero effort. Like hell, I'm pretty sure even the Volgin and The Boss swinging around a davy crocket with the launcher is enough to casually lift a jeep a few inches, and those are like two of the most basic ass feats in the series like ever.
