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Meliodas vs Aokiji
- Thread starter Ryuga21
- Start date
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Well, I believe that the first two questions I have are: Can Meliodas touch Aokiji through his intangibility? Does he have some way to bypass it and harm Aokiji in some shape or form
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True, Hellfire can bypass it. How likely is Meliodas to open with it?
>Speed equal
>Both shares similar speed
Boi.
Mel can't use Full Counter or anything of the sort based on the fact that DF ain't magic based so it gets nulled.
Problem is Meliodas resists Ice Manipulation and I'm not sure if Kuzan would be able to freeze him and destroy his body via frostbite based on that.
>Speed equal
>Both shares similar speed
Boi.
Mel can't use Full Counter or anything of the sort based on the fact that DF ain't magic based so it gets nulled.
Problem is Meliodas resists Ice Manipulation and I'm not sure if Kuzan would be able to freeze him and destroy his body via frostbite based on that.
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How good is Vivian's magic?
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It's... really not much. A better comparison would be Jericho, who can completely freeze Red and Grey Demons solid, that are 23 feet tall.
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- Thread starter
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Aokiji can freeze entire tsunamis instantly, freeze islands and also change the weather with his freezing powers, completly freezes diamond. He still can reduce an body power with his ice. Pretty sure that Aokiji's ice is stronger than Vivian's (Who is low-tier in NNT)
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How strong are red and great demons?
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That definitely seems more impressive then freezing a Tsunami, which is more of a temperature feat
What has Aokiji done?
What has Aokiji done?
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Like City level
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Aokiji was able to freeze Doflamingo quite easily and really quickly, but Doflamingo eventually broke out of the ice.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Donquixote_Doflamingo
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Donquixote_Doflamingo
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Besides freezing two giant tsunamis that is scaled to a kilometers each, freezes some of an ocean, as well as a giant sea monster. Aokiji claims that this expanse of sea will be frozen over for about a week, giving a man time to trek from one island to another on foot.Schnee One said:
Along with Akainu, turned Punk Hazard, a tropical island previously, into this
Freezes Doflamingo and a large swath of an island
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Better.
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What about the temperatures?
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Temperature is literally never relevant tbh.
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Oh right also not sure if this matters but Base Cusack was shown to be able to break out of Merli's ice by simply flexing.
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Which is not in any way relevant because even the feat itself was calced at 7A.
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Oh right it got recalced to City level.
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This is still ice that can compete with Low 6-B magma, so I guess Mel can't resist on that level since the ice he gets his resistance from is from a 7-B character. The difference is massive.
It can be a factor, but Mel isn't no-selling Kuzan's powers just with that. Kuzan can affect people who has resistance to low temperatures to the point of making them feel cold, so it's fair to assume that Mel isn't just tanking the ice.
Cusack flexing out of ice is his resistance. Those things can't be scaled.
It can be a factor, but Mel isn't no-selling Kuzan's powers just with that. Kuzan can affect people who has resistance to low temperatures to the point of making them feel cold, so it's fair to assume that Mel isn't just tanking the ice.
Cusack flexing out of ice is his resistance. Those things can't be scaled.
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Meliodas was also there along with Chandler and Zeldris and they all got out of the ice without any problems off scree. So I'm pretty sure the ice can be broken out of via comparable or superior power. Also didn't Doflamingo a High 7-A break out of Aokiji's casual ice attack? Why wouldn't Meliodas a Low 6-B of comparable power be able to break out of the ice?
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You said it, it was casual. There's no indication that Kuzan used his full power just to stop him on his tracks since he wasn't going to kill. Plus, Doffy might have been using his threads to get out of the ice. This is Kuzan going for the kill.
On the other side, Merlin is 6-C or High 6-C. This ice is still above Mel's power considering Kuzan scales to 2.5 Teratons while Mel scales above baseline. They are probably even, but the admirals are casual at this level.
Even if he can get out of the ice, the main problem is that if Kuzan applies frostbite he won't get out unscathed. If he gets frostbited and he gets out of the ice via sheer force he'll break the ice with his body. Mel can regenerate from losing limbs, alright, but it's not eternal considering his stamina depletes with every Regenerationn. And doing that to just Revenge Counter on Kuzan will be ineffective as Kuzan won't get actually harmed. Hellfire is the only option and it's not like he'll rush head-on against heat-based attacks, even less when you consider he has Precognition to help him in that part.
On the other side, Merlin is 6-C or High 6-C. This ice is still above Mel's power considering Kuzan scales to 2.5 Teratons while Mel scales above baseline. They are probably even, but the admirals are casual at this level.
Even if he can get out of the ice, the main problem is that if Kuzan applies frostbite he won't get out unscathed. If he gets frostbited and he gets out of the ice via sheer force he'll break the ice with his body. Mel can regenerate from losing limbs, alright, but it's not eternal considering his stamina depletes with every Regenerationn. And doing that to just Revenge Counter on Kuzan will be ineffective as Kuzan won't get actually harmed. Hellfire is the only option and it's not like he'll rush head-on against heat-based attacks, even less when you consider he has Precognition to help him in that part.
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I always thought Kuzan should have Resistance to heat and Akainu Resistance to ice given they could fight each other for a week on equal footing.
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Resistance to Ice is a bit redundant when you are covered in heat that can burn it.
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Uhh the op said they are both in character so would Aokiji really start off with his strongest ice attack? Cause we know that his causal ice attack can be broken out of by a High 7-A while Post-Purgatory Base Meliodas is superior to Prime Assault Mode Meliodas who basically ignored a 6-C+ ice attack.
This Meliodas is also really far above baseline. Post-Purgatory Base Meliodas pretty much soundly beat 1st Form DK Zeldris who is much stronger than Afternoon Mael. Afternoon Mael casually one shot Original Demon w/ Crisis as he was getting weaker due to being past noon. While Original Demon was growing stronger very quickly to the point where he overpowered True Body Ludoshel a baseline who was effortlessly overpowering him a few seconds ago. So even if they are even in Base the moment Meliodas activates Demon Mark he will pretty much stomp Aokiji and if he uses True Magic welp Aokiji is dead.
Stamina is really not much of a problem for Meliodas or any high level demon for that matter. Like their stamina isn't as good as One Piece characters but it's good enough that they can regenerate from lethal injuries many times without any problems. So I doubt it will matter that much in the long run.
This Meliodas is also really far above baseline. Post-Purgatory Base Meliodas pretty much soundly beat 1st Form DK Zeldris who is much stronger than Afternoon Mael. Afternoon Mael casually one shot Original Demon w/ Crisis as he was getting weaker due to being past noon. While Original Demon was growing stronger very quickly to the point where he overpowered True Body Ludoshel a baseline who was effortlessly overpowering him a few seconds ago. So even if they are even in Base the moment Meliodas activates Demon Mark he will pretty much stomp Aokiji and if he uses True Magic welp Aokiji is dead.
Stamina is really not much of a problem for Meliodas or any high level demon for that matter. Like their stamina isn't as good as One Piece characters but it's good enough that they can regenerate from lethal injuries many times without any problems. So I doubt it will matter that much in the long run.
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If he sees that his opponent can get out of the ice after the first casual attack in-character, he'll go for the kill.
Kuzan can trade blows with Sakazuki who fought a baseline 6-B character. He doesn't scale to 6-B but that alone is far better than Mel's scaling chain since it has better grounds.
It'll eventually matter. Plus, if Kuzan manages to completely freeze him and break the ice into pieces, he won't get back from that. His regen is Mid after all.
To overpower Kuzan he needs to overcome his precognition, so in CQC it's unlikely, and the AoE can be blocked with Forcefields.
Kuzan can trade blows with Sakazuki who fought a baseline 6-B character. He doesn't scale to 6-B but that alone is far better than Mel's scaling chain since it has better grounds.
It'll eventually matter. Plus, if Kuzan manages to completely freeze him and break the ice into pieces, he won't get back from that. His regen is Mid after all.
To overpower Kuzan he needs to overcome his precognition, so in CQC it's unlikely, and the AoE can be blocked with Forcefields.
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It's worth noting the only thing stopping Kuzan from freezing Whitebeard solid was due to Whitebeard passively generating vibrations which requires AZ to freeze. Without it then Whitebeard would have been frozen, he did actually manage to freeze Whitebeard but couldn't keep it that way for long.
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Isn't Aokiji currently just 2.5 Teratons rather than backscaling from a baseline 6-B? Cause if he was backwards scaled from a near baseline 6-B he should probably be Low 6-B+. Also assuming he is 2.5 Teraton and is somewhat stronger than Post-Purgatory Base Meliodas he would still be easily overpowered Meliodas when he uses the Demon Mark. The demon mark pretty much allowed Meliodas to blitz stomp somebody who was stomping and punching him faster than his Base form could react.
Well I guess it kinda depends on if Meliodas even let's him get close to touching him after using Demon Mark. Also his normal hellblaze slashes vary from human size to the size of buildings and if he uses True Magic he can fire hellblazes that could cause town/city sized explosions. So I'm pretty sure Aokiji would have a hard time dodging most of them or taking them head on since the hellflame probably has an higher AP than his ice.
Well I guess it kinda depends on if Meliodas even let's him get close to touching him after using Demon Mark. Also his normal hellblaze slashes vary from human size to the size of buildings and if he uses True Magic he can fire hellblazes that could cause town/city sized explosions. So I'm pretty sure Aokiji would have a hard time dodging most of them or taking them head on since the hellflame probably has an higher AP than his ice.
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He's 2.5 Teratons for blocking a quake, but it's above that because the admirals could pose a threat to Shirohige (albeit weakened) and they can compete with each other. So it's above 2.5 Teratons only.
Speed is equalized. Not like it matters. Even if it gets unequal, Kuzan has a number backing his Rel+ rating and it's faster than Mel by a bit.
Like I said, Forcefields take care of the slashes and explosions. They should be roughly comparable if anything and Kuzan still has precognition and the stamina advantage. Claiming that the high ranked demon won't get tired anythime soon is nothing compared to ten days when fighting against someone who can circunvent your intangibility via heat with abilities similar to yours.
Speed is equalized. Not like it matters. Even if it gets unequal, Kuzan has a number backing his Rel+ rating and it's faster than Mel by a bit.
Like I said, Forcefields take care of the slashes and explosions. They should be roughly comparable if anything and Kuzan still has precognition and the stamina advantage. Claiming that the high ranked demon won't get tired anythime soon is nothing compared to ten days when fighting against someone who can circunvent your intangibility via heat with abilities similar to yours.
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So yeah when Meliodas is in Base they have comparable AP but he has higher AP when he uses Demon Mark.
Why was it equalized in the first place when they have pretty much similar speeds? Also how fast is reacting in 0.00000000663485041 seconds? Cause that's his reaction speed in Base. Demon Mark amps that even further and allows him to blitz people faster than his Base.
Well the forcefields are useful when fighting somebody with comparable AP but when the opponent has higher AP so I really don't think it will matter that much later on once Meliodas uses his stronger forms which gives him the edge in AP. Also when has a battle of a weaker character against a stronger character with superior AP in a 1v1 sans Luffy lasted more than a couple of minutes? The battle between Akainu and Aokiji only lasted so long because they had comparable AP and durability. Whitebeard bested Akainu after just a few minutes.
Why was it equalized in the first place when they have pretty much similar speeds? Also how fast is reacting in 0.00000000663485041 seconds? Cause that's his reaction speed in Base. Demon Mark amps that even further and allows him to blitz people faster than his Base.
Well the forcefields are useful when fighting somebody with comparable AP but when the opponent has higher AP so I really don't think it will matter that much later on once Meliodas uses his stronger forms which gives him the edge in AP. Also when has a battle of a weaker character against a stronger character with superior AP in a 1v1 sans Luffy lasted more than a couple of minutes? The battle between Akainu and Aokiji only lasted so long because they had comparable AP and durability. Whitebeard bested Akainu after just a few minutes.
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Unless Meliodas has numbers to back up his Low 6-B rating then no, he won't have the AP advantage regardless of his chain scaling. Numbers are numbers and chain scaling isn't something we can quantify with numbers. I.E, someone who's stronger than someone who's stronger than a baseline low 6-B, versus a character who's at 2.4 teratons via an actual figure that we know then you can only assume that the first character can only reduce the AP gap between him and his opponent by a certain amount. Unless theres a multiplier for Mel but iirc those aren't used in NNT.
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Multipliers are used in NNT
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What does Demon Mark Mel scale to then?
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No idea, I just know multipliers are used.
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Scaling chains can make a character stronger than another character who has a calc. Aokiji is only above 2.5 Teraton. While this Meliodas has two different scaling chains that puts him around the same lvl as Aokiji in Base. The weakest Demon Mark allowed Meliodas to stomp somebody who was twice as strong as his Base so all Demon Marks have an multiplier that's at least over 2x.
Scaling Chain #1
True Magic Meliodas (Comparable to)~ 50% Demon King (Far stronger than)> Post-Purgatory Demon Mark Meliodas (At least over 2x stronger than)> Post-Purgatory Base Meliodas (Soundly defeats)> Demon King Zeldris (Far stronger than)> Afternoon Mael (Casually one shots as he gets weaker overtime)> Original Demon w/ Crisis (Already solidly stronger but is still getting much stronger every second)> True Body Ludoshel = Baseline Low 6-B (1 Teraton)
Scaling Chain #2
True Magic Meliodas (Comparable to)~ 50% Demon King (Far stronger than)> Post-Purgatory Demon Mark Meliodas (At least over 2x stronger than)> Post-Purgatory Base Meliodas (Soundly defeats)> Demon King Zeldris (Far stronger than)> 4C Mael (Stronger than)> Prime Elizabeth (Roughly comparable to)~ Indura Monspeet + Indura Deriere > Indura Monspeet (Slightly stronger than or comparable to)>~ Indura Deriere (Completely no sells and overpowers)> True Body Ludoshel = Baseline Low 6-B (1 Teraton)
Scaling Chain #1
True Magic Meliodas (Comparable to)~ 50% Demon King (Far stronger than)> Post-Purgatory Demon Mark Meliodas (At least over 2x stronger than)> Post-Purgatory Base Meliodas (Soundly defeats)> Demon King Zeldris (Far stronger than)> Afternoon Mael (Casually one shots as he gets weaker overtime)> Original Demon w/ Crisis (Already solidly stronger but is still getting much stronger every second)> True Body Ludoshel = Baseline Low 6-B (1 Teraton)
Scaling Chain #2
True Magic Meliodas (Comparable to)~ 50% Demon King (Far stronger than)> Post-Purgatory Demon Mark Meliodas (At least over 2x stronger than)> Post-Purgatory Base Meliodas (Soundly defeats)> Demon King Zeldris (Far stronger than)> 4C Mael (Stronger than)> Prime Elizabeth (Roughly comparable to)~ Indura Monspeet + Indura Deriere > Indura Monspeet (Slightly stronger than or comparable to)>~ Indura Deriere (Completely no sells and overpowers)> True Body Ludoshel = Baseline Low 6-B (1 Teraton)
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Chain scaling cant make you stronger than someone with an actual calc putting them at that level. Having a good chain scaling is nice and all however it isn't something that we can quantify, whereas someone with a calc has a number for us thats greater than the opponent. At best you can say that the gap between them isn't that big, you cant however claim that a character is stronger than another character via chain scaling whenever said character scales to a higher calc. There's been threads and discussions about this. Chain scaling isn't something that we can look at and slap a number on, its something that we look at and assume "this character is stronger than several characters however we dont know the exact number this character scales to making it unquantifiable." You cant get a multiplier from chain scaling alone.
