Medaka vs Kars REDUX • (0-1-0)

[MichaelCalistro]

This has happened before in Jun 26, 2018. Has the result changed?

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Medaka, the Academy Chairwoman

VS

Kars, the Ultimate Lifeform

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Bouquet Toss To The Future Arc Medaka • Kars With Stands • Standard Battle Assumptions • Speed is equalized • In a very large indestructible wasteland

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Theme:

 

[Dragonite007]

Kars has 1-A hax now, stomp

 

[Livinmeme]

medakars posting is almost a decade old

AIEEEEEE

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Kars has 1-A hax now, stomp

He does? I do apologize for my incompetence, but I don't see The Passion or Beyond in his profile. Where is the 1-A hax coming from?

 

[Ebihara]

Kars has 1-A hax now, stomp

god damn jojo charcters.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Me seeing this match knowing Medaka Box still needs to be revised (and also the fact that Kars has 1-A hax now or something)

Still, I think Kars just murders Medaka here

 

[MichaelCalistro]

god damn jojo charcters.

I am looking through Kars, and God forgive me if I am missing something here, because where is the 1-A hax coming from?

 

[Chritin]

Kars has 1-A hax now, stomp

What? No he doesn't? If you are thinking of Beyond, that's exclusive to George, Jorge, and Dio, and even then its only that level of defense. Anyway, I'll probably give a response later, but I'm currently swamped with work.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Me seeing this match knowing Medaka Box still needs to be revised (and also the fact that Kars has 1-A hax now or something)

Still, I think Kars just murders Medaka here

My God, where is the 1-A hax even coming from?

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Ignoring the 1-A hax stuff (not even sure if it's true myself) I would like to point out Medaka, doesn't really use her broken hax (say something like All Fiction) in character, unless the The Hero (Supernatural Luck) just makes her use it or she thinks she has to use it (not to mention she usually takes the first hit anyway because of the Joker status)

 

[Chritin]

My God, where is the 1-A hax even coming from?

He doesn't have any. They are getting the wrong idea from Beyond who grants some characters in Jorge Joestar (George, Jorge, Dio) a form of 1-A defense by basically being the author of the story and writing it so that none of them can die. Its basically real life plot armor from the author of the story.

That being said, while Kars is stronger than characters like George and Jorge, and is relative/stronger than Dio, that doesn't mean he can beat there hax. He just can't kill them cause the story itself won't allow them to die.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

He doesn't have any. They are getting the wrong idea from Beyond who grants some characters in Jorge Joestar (George, Jorge, Dio) a form of 1-A defense by basically being the author of the story and writing it so that none of them can die. Its basically real life plot armor from the author of the story.

That being said, while Kars is stronger than characters like George and Jorge, and is relative/stronger than Dio, that doesn't mean he can beat there hax. He just can't kill them cause the story itself won't allow them to die.

Thank you for clarifying, I was getting suspicious here.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

......

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Ignoring the 1-A hax stuff (not even sure if it's true myself) I would like to point out Medaka, doesn't really use her broken hax (say something like All Fiction) in character, unless the The Hero (Supernatural Luck) just makes her use it or she thinks she has to use it (not to mention she usually takes the first hit anyway because of the Joker status)

Thank you for that information, it's handful to have experts like you.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

......

 

[Johner2133451]

Ignoring the 1-A hax stuff (not even sure if it's true myself) I would like to point out Medaka, doesn't really use her broken hax (say something like All Fiction) in character, unless the The Hero (Supernatural Luck) just makes her use it or she thinks she has to use it (not to mention she usually takes the first hit anyway because of the Joker status)

I'll vote Kars because of this reason

 

[MichaelCalistro]

I'll vote Kars because of this reason

(0-1-0)​

 

[MichaelCalistro]

.........

 

[MichaelCalistro]

.......

 

[Ebihara]

.......

You should only bump your threads like once a day. People have told you this before.

 

[Agnaa]

I'll vote Kars because of this reason

What's Kars' actually way of winning against Medaka here?

Getting around her causality manip to undo her death, and her really good Supernatural Luck, at minimum.

 

[DRW001]

What's Kars' actually way of winning against Medaka here?

Getting around her causality manip to undo her death, and her really good Supernatural Luck, at minimum.

Kars has a direct resistance to fate manipulation which could help out against supernatural luck. (Plus he's also fought against characters with ridicious supernatural luck both in canon and in the novel but it ain't on the profile soo)

Kars should also be able to adapt her causality manip given how he's superior and should be capable of copying GER who literally used causality manip to undo its and Giorno's death to survive the 36 universe resets.

Does Medaka's luck and causality manip allow her to survive against stuff like virtually instanteous universe nuking or fated instant death hax that operates on a multiversal scale? And can she do much against Kars just copying her whole arsenal and making it 100x better? Plus there's the whole layered invisiblity and non-corporeal stand shenanigans.

Although I'm not really sure if this matchup should be done or added to the profiles, given how Kars's profile is very outdated and is missing a ton of shit like stats (calcs have been made, he should be upgraded to 5-C physically iirc), hax, resistances, etc. This goes both ways, there's also some stuff on his profile that really shouldn't be there too. Medaka's profile seems in a similar state. Like it just feels like she's also missing a bunch of shit.

 

[Agnaa]

Kars has a direct resistance to fate manipulation which could help out against supernatural luck. (Plus he's also fought against characters with ridicious supernatural luck both in canon and in the novel but it ain't on the profile soo)

I think we treat those as something different. And if we don't, then Medaka has resistance to it being nullified; even common Abnormals, when faced with an ability that makes something stray from their usual chances, still retain almost all of their luck (drawing 6 perfect cards, and 1 nigh-perfect card, instead of 7 perfect cards). Her luck far exceeds that of other Abnormals.

Kars should also be able to adapt her causality manip given how he's superior and should be capable of copying GER who literally used causality manip to undo its and Giorno death to survive the 36 universe resets.

Fair.

Does Medaka's luck and causality manip allow her to survive against stuff like virtually instanteous universe nuking or fated instant death hax that operates on a multiversal scale?

It doesn't have exact parallels to those feats. But the mechanism of her luck seems pretty generalisable to that. Plus, it would let her consistently beat a character far stronger than her who can nullify all of her abilities.

And her causality manip is just a GER-type thing, undoes her death, can be spammed. Its only demonstrated limitation is not being able to undo non-wounds that simply make her believe she's suffered an injury.

And can she do much against Kars just copying her whole arsenal and making 100x better?

She's also a mass-copier; able to copy things only from seeing or simply hearing about them, and perfecting them to the maximum one could reach with them.

And hell, when someone tried to steal her power they had this happen.

Overall, the best method for defeating her is to instantly incap her before she starts treating her opponent as a real threat; her luck doesn't stop her from losing temporary/low-stakes things.

Plus there's the whole layered invisiblity and non-corporeal stand shenanigans.

Yeah not much for her to directly do against that.

Although I'm not really sure if this matchup should be done or added to the profiles, given how Kars's profile is very outdated and is missing a ton of shit like stats (calcs have been made, he should be upgraded to 5-C physically iirc), hax, resistances, etc. This goes both ways, there's also some stuff on his profile that really shouldn't be there too. Medaka's profile seems in a similar state. Like it just feels like she's also missing a bunch of shit.

Eh, she's not missing too much, but is is kinda structured badly. There's a mostly-accepted thread for changing it.

But really, I don't think the revisions on Medaka's side will change the match. Her stats would be downgraded, but those aren't deciding this fight anyway.

 

[DRW001]

I think we treat those as something different. And if we don't, then Medaka has resistance to it being nullified; even common Abnormals, when faced with an ability that makes something stray from their usual chances, still retain almost all of their luck (drawing 6 perfect cards, and 1 nigh-perfect card, instead of 7 perfect cards). Her luck far exceeds that of other Abnormals.

Oh. I thought supernatural luck was a sub section of fate manipulation or something like that?

It doesn't have exact parallels to those feats. But the mechanism of her luck seems pretty generalisable to that. Plus, it would let her consistently beat a character far stronger than her who can nullify all of her abilities.

And her causality manip is just a GER-type thing, undoes her death, can be spammed. Its only demonstrated limitation is not being able to undo non-wounds that simply make her believe she's suffered an injury.

Not sure if its on my end but that first link is broken.

I've heard that Ajimu is notoriously a pain to scale here but given how that scan implies that Medaka's luck would bypass all of Ajimu's abilities (if im reading it correctly), are there any of Ajimu's abilities that would be relevant to this matchup? (if they're accepted on the wiki of course)

She's also a mass-copier; able to copy things only from seeing or simply hearing about them, and perfecting them to the maximum one could reach with them.

And hell, when someone tried to steal her power they had this happen.

Kars also has a defence against people stealing/copying his abilities where if they try to copy his power, they will literally ******* explode lol

Overall, the best method for defeating her is to instantly incap her before she starts treating her opponent as a real threat; her luck doesn't stop her from losing temporary/low-stakes things.

Yeah not much for her to directly do against that.

Hmm. Would her luck protect her then from being BFR'd on a multiversal scale from something she can't perceive, given that she technically isn't harmed or killed from it? Kars's completely absurd intelligence would also help here and he should be more than capable of figuring out how her luck works and how to respond in the best manner.

Eh, she's not missing too much, but is is kinda structured badly. There's a mostly-accepted thread for changing it.

But really, I don't think the revisions on Medaka's side will change the match. Her stats would be downgraded, but those aren't deciding this fight anyway.

Yeah Kars's profile structure isn't too great either.
The majority of Kars's revisions is stuff that would make him harder to beat, not neccessarily help him beat opponents iirc. Which may not decide the fight too much if Medaka can't perceive stands and can't really do much against D4C just grabbing another Kars from a different universe or KQ rewinding time to give Kars another go, both of which work even if Kars is killed or incapped.

 

[Livinmeme]

She's also a mass-copier; able to copy things only from seeing or simply hearing about them, and perfecting them to the maximum one could reach with them.

And hell, when someone tried to steal her power they had this happen.

Overall, the best method for defeating her is to instantly incap her before she starts treating her opponent as a real threat; her luck doesn't stop her from losing temporary/low-stakes things.

Nop, kars is 4-D compared to medaka 3-D shit, he memes her HARD in the copycat department.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

You should only bump your threads like once a day. People have told you this before.

I do apologize for God has made me born impatient, I will try to adjust to the accustom.

 

[Agnaa]

Oh. I thought supernatural luck was a sub section of fate manipulation or something like that?

Naw, they just do similar things.

Not sure if its on my end but that first link is broken.

Blargh, I'll just chuck it on Imgur. (For context, the speaker is describing an ability that nullifies Medaka's luck).

I've heard that Ajimu is notoriously a pain to scale here but given how that scan implies that Medaka's luck would bypass all of Ajimu's abilities (if im reading it correctly), are there any of Ajimu's abilities that would be relevant to this matchup? (if they're accepted on the wiki of course)

Being able to nullify all of Medaka's skills, being able to make Medaka unconscious with a thought, being able to give her any aliment/disease (cancer, heart attack, etc.) with a scratch, and being able to BFR people to a dream world from any stage of their lives by kissing them (meaning, if she uses it on you in the year 2018, she could put you in that place as you were in the year 2012, removing you from the real world in the meantime).

Kars also has a defence against people stealing/copying his abilities where if they try to copy his power, they will literally ******* explode lol

lmao nice. Funnily enough, Medaka does kinda have a defence against people with a defence against their abilities being copied, although not an identical one to Kars' case. While she was initially unable to copy Minuses, as that'd also give her their terrible personalities, she was eventually able to copy them without that drawback.

Hmm. Would her luck protect her then from being BFR'd on a multiversal scale from something she can't perceive, given that she technically isn't harmed or killed from it? Kars's completely absurd intelligence would also help here and he should be more than capable of figuring out how her luck works and how to respond in the best manner.

I think that answer to that's pretty unclear, all things considered. It isn't something she activates, it's kind of like a Beyond but with some better feats of how it works, but worse feats/statements on its source. Makes sense given the connection between these characters' authors.

Yeah Kars's profile structure isn't too great either.
The majority of Kars's revisions is stuff that would make him harder to beat, not neccessarily help him beat opponents iirc. Which may not decide the fight too much if Medaka can't perceive stands and can't really do much against D4C just grabbing another Kars from a different universe or KQ rewinding time to give Kars another go, both of which work even if Kars is killed or incapped.

Medaka's most concrete paths to winning, outside of "idk luck does something lol", are:

• Weighted Words; electricity-based telekinesis, mind manip, memory manip, and body puppetry.
• Five Focus; inflicts diseases/ailments, and heals injuries, via a scratch.
• Encounter; once she activates this, it passively redirects any physical/emotional/mental damage. Since we avoid NLF, the physical part probably wouldn't be very relevant here.
• Scar Dead; once she activates this, it passively re-opens any physical/mental wound those around her have ever received.
• Book Maker; spawns a screw in someone which reduces all of their stats, physical and mental, down to Misogi Kumagawa's level, and removes all of their abilities. The shock of this drop often KOs people.
• All Fiction; the causality manip thing that resurrects her, can also be used to erase a lot of stuff. Temperature (inducing Absolute Zero), a person, the concept of time, laws (letting her do things which were previously rendered impossible due to law manip), people's abilities, memories. While this is said to make those things "as if they never existed", events caused by them existing in the past and memories of them existing still remain.

All-in-all, I see a lot of possibly extremely weird interactions here. I'd wanna untangle those before declaring a winner.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Naw, they just do similar things.

Blargh, I'll just chuck it on Imgur.

Being able to nullify all of Medaka's skills, being able to make Medaka unconscious with a thought, being able to give her any aliment/disease (cancer, heart attack, etc.) with a scratch, and being able to BFR people to a dream world from any stage of their lives by kissing them (meaning, if she uses it on you in the year 2018, she could put you in that place as you were in the year 2012, removing you from the real world in the meantime).

lmao nice. Funnily enough, Medaka does kinda have a defence against people with a defence against their abilities being copied, although not an identical one to Kars' case. While she was initially unable to copy Minuses, as that'd also give her their terrible personalities, she was eventually able to copy them without that drawback.

I think that answer to that's pretty unclear, all things considered. It isn't something she activates, it's kind of like a Beyond but with some better feats of how it works, but worse feats/statements on its source. Makes sense given the connection between these characters' authors.

Medaka's most concrete paths to winning, outside of "idk luck does something lol", are:

• Weighted Words; electricity-based telekinesis, mind manip, memory manip, and body puppetry.
• Five Focus; inflicts diseases/ailments, and heals injuries, via a scratch.
• Encounter; once she activates this, it passively redirects any physical/emotional/mental damage. Since we avoid NLF, the physical part probably wouldn't be very relevant here.
• Scar Dead; once she activates this, it passively re-opens any physical/mental wound those around her have ever received.
• Book Maker; spawns a screw in someone which reduces all of their stats, physical and mental, down to Misogi Kumagawa's level, and removes all of their abilities. The shock of this drop often KOs people.
• All Fiction; the causality manip thing that resurrects her, can also be used to erase a lot of stuff. Temperature (inducing Absolute Zero), a person, the concept of time, laws (letting her do things which were previously rendered impossible due to law manip), people's abilities, memories. While this is said to make those things "as if they never existed", events caused by them existing in the past and memories of them existing still remain.

All-in-all, I see a lot of possibly extremely weird interactions here. I'd wanna untangle those before declaring a winner.

I highly appreciate for the imgur, I can now see the manga scan myself as well.