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Medaka Box Tiering CRT

Just saying, it's unreasonable to ask that all 100 of the abilities Ajimu uses are all shown in the ONE slide they're all shown in, the abilities are all used at the same time and so it's obvious that she is using them.

This is like assuming that we need to see every slice a Samurai makes with his sword or they never happened, it's a leap in logic and is assuming much on many parts.

im with Fire, Ajimu should be "At least Low 2-C, likely Far Higher", Kumagawa Being "At least Low 2-C" and Medaka "Low 2-C"
 
This again? Disagree, basically Agnaa gets the idea. Also daily reminder that this thread existed. But I'll go by parts.

Baby Planet
...It's another skill with nothing to support it past its description - by no means does it translate to suddenly saying some people on the verse should be put at a tier well beyond their best showings. Besides if we took descriptions for Ajimu at face-value despite all evidence to the contrary we would as well up and say she's Tier 1 ~ 0 based on the transcending dimensions or omnipotent statements.

Other universes in Medaka Box
...Multiple Universes existing in a verse mean literally nothing. The sole mention of Alternate universe is in a passing panel from Medaka talking about fighting Wargold and whatnot. We don't suddenly put DB people at 2-C because Universes "exist".

To further evidence how this kind of thing doesn't hold on its own... If we used titles with no display to go along with it we would have things like Base Frieza in his saga being Universal via his "Emperor of the Universe" title or Universal Boros in OPM by virtue of being called "Dominator of the Universe (Õà¿Õ«çÕ«ÖÒü«ÞªçÞÇà, Zen uchü no hasha"... It's the kind of thing that just doesn't hold any meaning --- especially in this case where Wargold's "character" amounts to something in the delusions of Tsugiha in just a few pages or something mentioned in a part of dialogue in a single speech bubble of a single panel and never seen or heard from again.

All Fiction's statements
...There is absolutely nothing that supports the claim of AF erasing the Universe. Nothing, nil, all fiction. It's like saying Diavolo should suddenly be Universal physically or whatnot because KC's range covers that far. Reminder that everyone at EOS was immediately terrified to hell and back at the mere mention of the moon falling and Kumagawa was also there. Only for him to go "Yeah we're all doomed" mode all the same with no mention of his "universal" hax being made to stop the moon even though he literally had it in hand at the time along with BM to seal the other chars so if that was a possibility, he'd obviously use it -especially when their ultimate decision was to destroy the moon anyways.

All Fiction's feats
All fiction erasing stuff qualifies as hax, not AP. It would also be inconsistent to oblivion with... Pretty much the cap the story has shown for the cast. Reminder again that EOS Medaka needed Hanten to help her survive Moon Bust/figured that could have killed Iihiko also and further backing that they are nowhere near Universal levels, she still had her powers for quite a while after that and could by no means restore the moon which took a project for years loooong, and she was still speaking of it after the series was reaching epilogue time.

The Dream World
Dream World is literally what it says on the tin. It's unknown at best, and even then has to do with Ajimu and nobody else. So using this for scaling doesn't hold either.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
It seems like quite a few users have issues with All Fiction being 4-D, myself included. Perhaps it's best to make a separate thread regarding that? Anyway back on topic I agree with Agnna and Infinitesped regarding this topic.
Click to expand...

Bumping this just in case since this does seem like a topic that many disagree with.
 
Wiki tends to be like that. The first moment you're typing a book, the next moment you quickly check something, and finally your book is gone.
 
@Iapitus I understand that pain all too well regardless of sides and arguments chosen in threads, so my condolences because I've been there.

I'll be going to sleep soon (way past my time here) but if anything comes up gimme a heads-up.

---

Also since this is one thing I didn't adress... I'm neutral on AF affecting 4-D stuff since Kumagawa uses it for Pseudo Time-Stop and whatnot all the time. So whether it goes or stays, that one doesn't matter to me. This kind of Hax doesn't scale to AP either way, though (otherwise every Time Manipulator or Base Lavos would be Low 2-C since they have lots of stuff/hax that affects 4-D and whatnot).
 
FateAlbane said:
@Iapitus I understand that pain all too well regardless of sides and arguments chosen in threads, so my condolences because I've been there.
Click to expand...
Ah, the infamous "didn't post" one time i wrote a 8 points long CRT with around 50 links as proof for everything. I felt my life shatter when it didn't post, cus i hadn't saved it. That was hell. Just for context, it was 7'710 kilobytes worth of handwritten crt. Since then i learned to save anything that takes me more than 1 min to write down.

@Iap My condolencs bud.

@Fate. Sides aside. Glad you're back. Not the same without you. I lowkey missed being opposed
 
Anyway onto the points:

Baby Planet
Tier 1 Ajimu is not a thing because we're just not sure what the skill means. The guide book translation says "a skill to beyond dimensions", which is weird wording to say the least. It's a thing of we're scared of misinterpreting it. The same thing cannot be said about "Create a universe". It is rather straightforward, has been translated twice, and it's existence is being backed up by the guidebook, making it's existence essentially WoG.

Other universes
I know this was just a possibility. My headcannon if you will. The existence of this universe was confirmed after Ajimu had used her ability, so it's just a possibility, not really something to prove Low 2-C on it's own. But saying it's not trust worthy cus War Gold, a character a delusional girl made up is there, is not a good argument. And no one used titles here. So i can agree with your point of view, as i said it's really a case of a "possibility" here, so i can see why you don't agree, but don't strawmann here bringing up titles and stuff, no one said anything about those.

AF Statements
There are 2 statements, and comparable feats. But the moon thing is not an argument sorry. They could have brought tsurubami back to life if that was the case, it would have been an option, nobody tried, it. Misogi nuked concepts from the universe, that alone would allow All Fiction to in some way or another stop the moon from falling yet nobody tried to use abilities. And Hanten's case is again, not an argument, you're just interpreting it without anything to back it up. Hanten said "i went to save Medaka", there is nothing to say Medaka used her abilities. She is not the type to use skills like that. Medaka has "never" used all fiction in canon except for the time she stated she used it on Iihiko, but that was because she didn't expect any skill to work if Ajimu's quadrillion didn't. Never has she used it for anything else. She could have used All Fiction when Zenkichi was stabbed through the heart, she didn't. PIS or CIS on not using hax doesn't translate to "they can't use their hax". And the exact mechanics and properties of Testament are a big fat unknown, so the moon thing is about as clear as Ajimu's "transcend dimensions" skill.

All Fiction Feats
All Fiction is already a 4D erasure which has universal range and can do stuff like nuke concepts from the universe. And yes if Diavolo said "I can erase part of time, i can even erase all of it", it would give Diavolo a "possibly Low 2-C". Becaus he has feats comparable to Low 2-C, universal range and a universe nuking statement on top of it.

Dream World
Unknown, like testament that you're using to counter the Low 2-C tiers? Except we know more about the dream world than testament.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
half snip
Click to expand...
Ah, the infamous "didn't post" one time i wrote a 8 points long CRT with around 50 links as proof for everything. I felt my life shatter when it didn't post, cus i hadn't saved it. That was hell. Just for context, it was 7'710 kilobytes worth of handwritten crt. Since then i learned to save anything that takes me more than 1 min to write down.
@Fate. Sides aside. Glad you're back. Not the same without you. I lowkey missed being opposed

My God, just reading that first part hurt me on an emotional level. I still remember a single post I did full of links being gone and me having a blank stare towards the screen... I can't imagine how that would have felt if it was a whole CRT.

Yeah, nice to see you all still going strong too! Before I answer this here... Did we get any updates/translation on te Kumagawa novels since I left? I'm assuming not, but one can dream.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Ah, the infamous "didn't post" one time i wrote a 8 points long CRT with around 50 links as proof for everything. I felt my life shatter when it didn't post, cus i hadn't saved it. That was hell. Just for context, it was 7'710 kilobytes worth of handwritten crt. Since then i learned to save anything that takes me more than 1 min to write down.
Click to expand...
That happened to me the first time I made a profile, and I had fully wrote it.

Needless to say, I was pissed.
 
FateAlbane said:
My God, just reading that first part hurt me on an emotional level. I still remember a single post I did full of links being gone and me having a blank stare towards the screen... I can't imagine how that would have felt if it was a whole CRT.

Yeah, nice to see you all still going strong too! Before I answer this here... Did we get any updates/translation on te Kumagawa novels since I left? I'm assuming not, but one can dream.
Click to expand...
I know right. The first thing that came to mind when it happened was "Ant, give me a refund". Not to mention the mental workload i had done to word everything correctly and go into scientific details.

Well the novels no not yet. Causality does have his hands on 1 of the 2 guidebooks for Medaka Box though.
 
Anyways, on to the thingies!

Baby Planet
Well it's more a case where, if we take the statement for Baby Planet literally, we should be doing that for a lot of other statements and/or skills about Ajimu. Were we to actually take this, we would be opening the door for even more abilities that gives us only the name and a description, but no context to go by. Furthermore, even "Create a universe" is too... Blank. We never see it in use -- so we don't know how it is done, which way the "Universe" to be otherwise evaluated would look like, not size, not if Universe here could be a pocket one, if it's literal, if an entire Universe with corresponding scale pops up... And then there's the problem that this is Ajimu's skill. The same goes for Pioneer Flag, that Medaka used in Hakoniwa against that perv suitor --- It didn't show anything nor was there any lasting effects in the series. That perv Kairai who is fodder took it to the face technically and was... Relatively alright afterwards.

And there are no mentions really of New Universes existing or any impact from it in the series at all, which makes it even more iffy. It only lasts for as long as the skill description is said, then along with the page filled with all the other skills, it's gone... Which leads me to agree more with Agnaa in this front.

Other universes
I think we agreed for the most part here. Though I wasn't making the titles analogy to straw man you there, just for two things - One is that War-Gold was called "King of Another Universe"; the other is to evidence that these series tend to be pretty loose at implications of Universal power while not as prone to back up said statements.

AF Statements
Agnaa already covered why the statements don't fly. AF does not have feats on that scale --- at absolute most, the color feat gives it range, by no means it translates to AP.

Fukurou was literally the cause for most of the bad things going on through the arc and generally a creep. The fact that they had everyone cured (suitors included) but kept him dead especially was obvious.

The moon had already been falling. Resurrecting Fukurou would literally do nothing when he had something to make it fall but not something to tell it to kindly return.

On the "moon is not an argument" matter, we already went over this situation in a previous thread. We cannot arbitrarily disregard the entire plot of the manga's end and something that was thoroughly treated as a huge issue from this point onwards to the series end as if "It doesn't count".

Erasing colors is, again, at best, Kumagawa's range. If he can't erase the moon, the simple explanation is that again with the Diavolo analogy --- he doesn't have that kind of AP, even though his hax can otherwise reach all the way to the stars and beyond. Kumagawa doesn't have a feat of erasure that scales to his AP at all, so him not being able to erase the Moon is actually as consistent as it gets given how the tiering for that is ludicrously above his otherwise best showings.

I'm not misinterpreting Hanten's situation because the scans don't even leave much room for that --- at best an easily tied Occam's Razor. Medaka herself tells all the group to not expect her to return, once alone considers again that both Iihiko and her would die from this. Then she thinks maybe she alone wouldn't only for later the story goes out of its way to give us confirmation that "She survived because Shiranui Hanten who is Ajimu's double went there to save her".

We can't say this is PIS because a Moon Level power is a tier much higher than anything these characters displayed. Literally looking at their profiles you can see the tier jump from there. And it keeps being an issue treated as of huge proportions (with Medaka needing to make a project later to try and make a new one). This would be PIS if they had fought galaxy or actual universal level foes time and again, only to later have problems with the moon.

But they were dealing with tier 8 levels of destruction until then, only to suddenly have a Low 5-B "Colony Drop" situation on their hands. When Udou calls to say the Moon is falling they are terrified of that fact before Momozono even takes the Cellphone to tell them a style had anything to do with triggering that. Udou even stresses that the problem is the size and scale of the moo - she never mentions it's trouble because "a style triggered its fall so nothing works". This again, adds to how everyone present at the time had never destroyed anything that would come even closer to the power needed to destroy or stop a moon: So it makes a load of sense.

Taking endgame feats and making another analogy, even something like DB!Roshi legitimately busting a moon in front of everyone's eyes early series isn't accepted by virtue of being inconsistent with other showings of the series later. The statements of Kumagawa fall short by absolute lack of demonstration of such AP and it being inconsistent with best showings the chars have to offer.

All Fiction Feats
Range does not equal AP. It's hax. Erasing colors is also hax, not AP -- we can't quantify that. Once again, we can't use those things for AP. It's another point where I can bring the Lavos analogy: Base Lavos would be Low 2-C or even higher if we used stuff like this (and Base Lavos actually has much more statements and time stuff to push that but it still is super inconsistent with its best showings so I know it doesn't work).

Dream World
Well, Testament is rated Low 5-B actually, not unknown. And that Low 5-B is part of what is countering it.

Also referring once again to my point above in regards to the moon. The Dream World is the same deal with every other series actually, a lot of characters who have dream world powers tend to be shown as Unknown if they're vague. Even peops like Freddy Krueger get their tier listed as "Unknown" in the dream world (this is a suffering I share since there is this one series I wanted to upgrade for Aeons but can't because the dream world is also vague as it gets).

...Also I'm not sure if it was ever stated Ajimu created it or if she just appears there with Alibi Block since she says she can appear inside dreams and whatnot, but at this point my memory is failing me. Are there scans saying she made the thing? It could be once again be the case of Ajimu's infamous "beyond scaling" skill going on here.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Well the novels no not yet. Causality does have his hands on 1 of the 2 guidebooks for Medaka Box though.
Click to expand...
I have been on a desperate search for them, which now spins between giving up and trying again.

Given how Novels always boost everything the novel seems positively big when you consider all the volumes, there must be a load of feats from Kumagawa there. Also one of them covers the original battle between him and Medaka while Ajimu was still around so food for thought.
 
I know they will give feats but i did find 2 of them on amazon i think. But i also think that someone is trying to translate them though it seems fairly unreliable. It's in a really weird spot.
 
I would love to see more of anything.

Kumagawa years in between series end and epilogue. Momo as Student Council President. Unzen going Kamina. Ajimu returning. Nienami anything.

The full story in the novels with Kumagawa vs Sukinasaki full battle.

Instead we get...

Nothing. ALL FICTION!

It's almost like Kumagawa made it all never happen to troll us in reality itself.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
 
@Fate

It's all part of Nisio's plot to make us believe Medaka Box is real, do not fall for it. Pull yourself together.
 
Nothing yet, but @Fate i prepared a counter to your arguments, but then i thought, do I really need that kind of negativity in my life?
 
Baby Planet

The fodder didn't "tank" that skill (you don't tank creation of a universe that's not in your face, it was just created somewhere...the author says so), and apparently Medaka's skill doesn't have the same translation it says "create new heaven and earth(?)" (i think i remember Causality translated it from the guidebook for me but i don't remember what exaclty it was so excuse me if i made a mistake there). And we cannot do that for "other skills" simply because we don't know what they mean. The only skill that are seemingly stronger than Baby Planet are:

  • Become God (Do i need to mention why we can't use this? We have no idea what the standards of god are, gods literally range from tier 6 to tier 0 in fiction).
  • Transcend Dimensions (This is a case of we don't know for sure if they mean what we think they do. Not only can dimensions be both universes and higher dimensions, but we're not even sure what it means to "transcend them" does it mean 1 by 1 which would mean an eventual 1-B or transcend them as a concept as in "1-A"? It is too vague so it cannot be used, there are many ways to make a mistake in this one).
I think that's about it. And we know it's not a pocket universe from the fact that it would have been stated and that when ajimu says "universe" she means actual universe, like when she stated she waited for "the universe to come into creation". And you're still missing the point of the tier being "Possibly Low 2-C". It being possibly questionable doesn't mean it cannot be added to the profiles. There are MANY profiles with "likely" and "possibly" tiers in them, they still work wonderfully.

Other Universes
It never implies universal power tbh. "King of another universe". Lord Boros was king of the universe, doesn't mean he can "nuke" the universe, he's just the strongest in the universe.

AF Statements
I did discuss with agnaa afterwards doe The conceptual manipulation gives it (while not ap as he's not destroying anything physical), conceptual manip type 3, universal range and All Fiction being a 4 dimensional ability. As i said, All Fiction is already "High 3-A" (by virtue of being a limited 4D), it having 2 statements of Low 2-C on top of a feat of working on a skill that is HEAVILY implied to have Low 2-C capability makes "Possibly Low 2-C" rather valid imo.

A creepy dude vs the destruction of the world. Who do you think is better? And the only thing he really did was bring the moon down, which was done after he died, he may have manipulated some stuff but he was still seen as a savior rather than a bad guy as he was the "only one" who could help with defeating Iihiko (although that was proven not true later via muh plot and friendship but you get the point).

There was nothing to say that, we know nothing about how testament works.

Well all fiction didn't have to erase the moon, it just needed to make it so that it never fell, which as you know is something it can do. Yet no one ever tried it. Many things were treated as huge issues in the series. The style users were treated as a huge issue, but Ajimu could have just winked at them, same for hanten and Misogi, yet they never did that. Unless we're saying that since Ajimu didn't do anything to the style users she couldn't do anything.

(Actually Diavolo's range is universal but eh). He may not have something that directly ties to "ap" on that scale but he has things that scale it to dimensionality on that level, range and even pseudo feats (with erasing time colours and more, while none of them are AP, erasing time and concepts from a 4D construct is not easy).

She said "maybe" i can survive, if she did survive Misogi would survive as well because they both have all fiction, and Medaka doesn't have any better self defensive abilities. And we do not use Occam's razor on things that are too vague, otherwise we would have slapped occam's razor on 1-A ajimu via several "transcending dimensions" statements and skill long time ago. If Hanten says "i went to save her" we don't know what he did. She may lack the means to get back to earth, and he went and saved her because she would just stay there dying of oxygen. Occams Razor can't apply because we don't know anything about it, and no real solution is truly likely, it depends on how you want to interpret it, but it all remains just personal interpretation nothing more.

Well having dealt with stuff like Baby Planet, star busting skills and more yeah i'd say it's PIS. But the reason i say it's PIS is because no one tried to fix it? No one tried to use abilities at it, everything was just shoved on physical stuff, abilities weren't even mentioned to work or not to work.

Similarly everyone was shocked at Hinokage's physical strength and speed yet it doesn't mean it's an actual big deal. This was just of a higher scale.

There are no "best showings" everything was done casually from 4D feats, to universal in range ones, to simply erasing people. There are no "best showings per character", it's entirely debatable on what was used for the moon destructon. If medaka had used abilities she wouldn't need to go to the moon at all. It's just a really questionable part of the series that is left up to interpretation.

AF Feats
Yes but a 4D ability universal in range (High 3-A) that has Low 2-C statements on top of working on Low 2-C skills is a plus.

Dream World
I didn't mean Testament is unknown in tier, i said it's unknown in mechanics. Same as how the dream world is unknown in it's true nature.

(5571 Kb...geez)
 
Baby Planet

Even if we went that route and assumed Kairai didn't tank it, I fear that line of thought would kind of nuke the reasoning for using these kinds of descriptions as evidence even further. At that point either

a. Skills like Baby Planet and Pioneer flag qualify even less since even the contextless description isn't necessarily implying/showing the literal effect (actually, and going by that reasoning, these skills wouldn't qualify for AP even if we took the literal words from their names).

b. Once more, there's never any impact in the story or even a passing mention of any universe being there or created, nor shown in any manner. It is far too vague a thing and far too higher of a scale than what the series shows. A good chunk of Medaka Box's story doesn't even have the cast leaving the scope of Hakoniwa or directly impacting large parts of the world.

c. Not really. As a matter of fact, the skill *is* vague. Every series - I'm pretty sure every series - when there's Universal anything we have... Well, an Universe to see, to compare, to evaluate and all that. Here, we have nothing. There is absolutely no info or show of this supposed Universe, means of its making, size, space or time or implications to the series, how it impacts anything if at all, etc.

d. I'm not missing a point. I'm saying that as much as I'd be glad to say otherwise if we had proper evidence, we can't decide this is Possibly Low 2-C against the series' whole scope based on a few passing words that ultimately are too contrary to the scale we see. We haven't ever seen a single enemy or char in Medaka Box doing anything on screen that possibly ever comes anywhere near say... SS level (And even that is a *VERY* generous stretch on my end for this comparison when "Star Busting" was done once, as an isolated feat inside Kumagawa's dream while he was unconscious and being treated by Aoki Aka, by Ajimu at that). It feels like a far too big stretch to believe Kumagawa and Medaka may be Universal+ based on so little when so much in the story points in the other direction.

Other Universes
Ye.

AF Statements
a. I don't disagree with AF having Conceptual Manip, Range and erasing whatnot. Like I joked about before, Kumagawa tends to do a Diavolo kind of thing for Pseudo Time-Stop. But many many chars have hax capable of affecting even higher dimensional structures (Hello, Beatrice at 25-D hax but needs intrincate plan to create a new world) and they are called smurfs, because their AP is still in 3-D while what their hax may affect can make their abilities ellusive. As another example Base Lavos at its weakest makes the structure of space time unstable and creates gates at places via existing but it's still hax. Not AP.

b. I disagree on the basis of the implications being either vague, clashing with the scope of the series and generally not having anything concrete to back them up (Sadly, Medaka vs Nasuverse at Low 2-C would be kind of cool).

c. Like I said:

"Fukurou was literally the cause for most of the bad things going on through the arc and generally a creep. The fact that they had everyone cured (suitors included) but kept him dead especially was obvious.

The moon had already been falling. Resurrecting Fukurou would literally do nothing when he had something to make it fall but not something to tell it to kindly return."

In your own words, Fukurou was a creep. He was the one who caused this situation out of literal spite when he died. Not only he never made a style to tell the moon to stop falling, his personality would most certainly not lead him to.

"We know nothing about how testament works..." ...And that's precisely why the most we can say about it is that it drops a moon on things. Assigning extra effects and/or assumptions to it that were never adressed in the series is not something we can do.

The AF and Moon thing falling is again the same thing I adressed before --- Kumagawa has hax and range, but not AP for that kind of feat.

Getting to the heart of the problem: The statements are far too vague, and the characters they would apply to (the series as a whole at that) do not have anywhere or any feat to ascert them as true.

Be it for Creation or Destruction, Medaka Box does not give us Universal scale actual feats anywhere and then the chars you'd otherwise tie these statements to have trouble dealing with something of a much lower scale.

Even ignoring the EOS Moon Fall situation entirely, there's nothing in the series that gives us a serious instance of Universal Threat or Universal Effects in the world. As a matter of comparison, ut times in other series we get actual Universal Destroyers who are shown legitimately busting a Universe on Screen and they still can fall short of that tier at Multi-Galaxy by doing it overtime (Example: Vorgis has a Universal Destruction statement after absorbing Belleria's Power, Mugen Souls has Universal Statements and he is shown casually busting Multiple Galaxies on screen. Still 3-B.).

Yet in Medaka Box we have either a character making a bold statement about their power or the description of one of Ajimu's quadrillion skills and neither is ever backed up while the actual series gives us Tier 8 stuff to work with for the most part.

This isn't even out of context for Medaka Box, Kumagawa himself lampshades that the series focuses on Hax and that Kugurugi "should go to a Shonen manga if her power makes things explode".

...Ajimu is an unknown here. Actually every time I re-read Medaka Box I realize once more how Nisio literally made consistent scaling a nightmare for her. Ajimu once again, scales to no one. She never gave two cents about the suitors actually (she outright says in one page that she could oneshot them all), and she wasn't there for the moon deal. So that analogy is not valid here.

I never questioned Kumagawa's range being that high. I'm also fine with AF being Smurf hax to some extent.

No, this situation is more than enough to use Occam's razor because both the affected one's quotes (Medaka), the other characters (the group), scenario as the plot presents it and the one who saved her (Hanten) point towards this direction.

Also no, Occam's Razor would *not* point to 1-A Ajimu when she has a few statements without context or backing up and then instances that beat that idea down the road. The higher a tier, the more evidence it takes and given the amount of time, statements, lore, cosmology and feats to put literally any 1-A in existence to stand where they are at now (Chaos Gods come to mind), this is again, not quite a valid analogy.

From this point onwards it's the territory of assumptions that we can't use -- as in, once again stuff that the story never bothers to explain. Medaka points to death by the moon, the plot points to the same and so does Hanten. Also it was definitely not returning the matter here, since Medaka still mentions dying for Iihiko or her while still on the planet, if the moon fell.

It's not PIS.

Baby Planet is vague and has absolutely no context or point in the series to work with.

"Star busting" was literally done by Ajimu who scales to no one, and what's worse, inside a dream.

And more... ...There's nothing more because then we have the series back to tons of feats and destruction around tier 8 that do not at all tier with these isolated quotes or instances. It's not PIS because a Moon trumps destruction in any scale that Medaka had possibly dealt with thus far.

I can't agree with the idea of rating chars as Low 2-C based on a few things said here and there when, even if we took them at face value... These things are ludicrously beyond what they have ever shown us. And when something that is far above their tier 8 showings - but still doesn't come anywhere near that scale - pops up for the first time, they treat it like the end of the world, have to literally pull a heroic sacrifice on Medaka's end and the story goes out of its way to tell us later that "Well she couldn't have dealt with that scale of destruction alone, Ajimu's double saved her".

The story doesn't acknowledge Medaka even at the very end as being capable of, by herself, dealing with something of that scale -- until someone who's up there with Ajimu shenanigans enters to save the day.

"There are no "best showings" everything was done casually from 4D feats, to universal in range ones, to simply erasing people."

...Hax does not Equal AP. And Range does not equal AP either. There are smurfs and time users with stuff way stronger than this everywhere in the site and they don't suddenly get tiers corresponding to how far their hax reaches. Using the Base Lavos example again, it would be 2-A if I applied this line of thought to it.

4-D feats?

Kumagawa erases colors >> Range of Hax.

Making stuff have never Happened/Erasing Time >>> Existence Erasure on a good enough level does this. Sakuya Izayoi completely erases the time of something and they from Space-Time. That's by no means evidence of Low 2-C, just hax.

...Other than that, I positively don't remember much of anything pointing to 4-D feats.

On my end I'd say it's pretty clear cut on this front.

AF Feats
Well, refer to the above as for why this by no means can scale to AP.

Range, AP and Hax: Three entirely different things that may complement each other with displays but are by no means the same. We don't use these parameters for any series, Medaka Box can't get a special treatment.

Dream World
Unless I missed something there, don't think there's much else to say here.
 
...With that said, these replies are growing increasingly large, so I may ultimately just leave this as my final stance on the matter, agree to disagree and spare us both from this Replyhell.
Dun dun duuun
Also if you or anyone ever finds the novels translations, be sure to tell on my wall.

Anyways Fire, and to end this on a nice note:

I can actually admire the amount of time and effort you've been putting into this verse.

In a thread like this one, I can see it actually takes dedication to face the enemy stand THE WALL.
 
I was just about to say: "Fate let's all be friends here and spare each-other brain cells" before i read this.

But yeah I agree i think at this point we both understand that neither is going to let up anytime soon. I can keep arguing, and so can you, but....
JonTron - Why would you do that?
JonTron - Why would you do that?

Why would we do any of that?

So I say we just leave this up to votes I guess. That's the only thing left.

Likewise, to end this on a nice note:

I am always here to support and give Medaka Box some love, the show is far greater than the recognition it gets (and that is something that I doubt a single soul in this whole wiki will disagree with). But what is the point of being here if no one will oppose you amirite? The whole point is to argue, so having a worthy opponent someone like you is nice too.

And below i will post my opinion of you ovo

Finally, A Worthy Opponent , Our Battle Will Be Legendary! (Kung Fu Panda)
Finally, A Worthy Opponent , Our Battle Will Be Legendary! (Kung Fu Panda)
 
That's a tearful post...

Oh by the way, i think from all the posts above, i find myself agreeing with Fate's reasoning. So i disagree to the op suggestions
 
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