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Medaka Box Tiering CRT

Agnaa seems to make sense. This is most likely unreliable to scale from.
 
I am neutral on Ajimu scaling/gaining a tier, but everything points toward Low 2-C Medaka and Kumagawa. Their abilities would have been High 3-A/limited 4D (if they had an AP feat). With these many things pointing towards Universal+ when it already has universal range.

So with all these i don't see why the jump from High 3-A/Limited 4D with Universal range to Low 2-C seems unreasonable.

And as i said i am proposing a "possibly Low 2-C" tier on top of Unknown, not giving it a true tier. So basically "Unknow, possibly Low 2-C", basically implying that it could be Low 2-C same as the show heavily implies it is Universal+ without clearly showing it.
 
Well, I am afraid that we cannot scale them based on speculation. Sorry.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, I am afraid that we cannot scale them based on speculation. Sorry.
Click to expand...
No, no. Not speculation, more like statements and feats. Similar to how we treated the Light Speed stats previously.

Note 1: Regarding the Light Speed Hyperbole, there are only so many statements that could be dismissed as mere hyperbole, but none of the with any contradictions whatsoever. Even narration point to certain characters (5 at the maximum) being lightspeed, with no contradictions at all. In fact Ajimu blowing up the star, the nature of Hinokage's Theme Song, and Medaka destroying the moon overnight only point towards it.

The Light Speed was stated, explained and implied so many times we had no choice but to accept it.

Similarly, the universal tiers have been stated (both all fiction statements, ajimu's skill) and heavily implied (the dream world and the existence of other universes when according to Ajimu's backstory "the universe came into creation" the universes weren't in numbers, there was a single universe, whereas by the end of the series after ajimu has used ther universe creation ability there is stated to be another universe) several times. It would be a case similar to the Light Speed. The upgrade is also reasonable because as i said the only thing that changes is the fact that now they will have AP, their dimensionality stays the same.
 
Which skills/powers do you wish to give a definite tier, and what is the summarised evidence for each of them?
 
Well the only abilities that can get a tier are:

Baby Planet (obviously). Both translations (from the databook and from the show) explicitly say universe creation (even another translation for the name is Newborn Universe). But this is only if you are ok with giving Ajimu a tier. As i said im neutral on giving Ajimu a tier. However this would also go to Medaka who copied this skill from Ajimu.

All Fictio. Other than Baby Planet, this is the only skill that can translate to AP (due to being practically EE). Sumerized evidence:

  • 2 statements from both Misogi and Gagamaru saying that All Fiction is capable of destroying the universe (the scans are in the OP)
  • All Fiction (as Misogi himself stated) contributing in sealing Ajimu and her skills which includes Baby Planet and whatever skill she used to create the Dream World which has shown to be a Universe.
  • Both of these on top of the thing that are already accepted about All Fiction:
    • Universal Range
    • Limited 4 Dimensonal
    • Capable of erasing concepts on an universal scale
 
Well, I am neutral about giving Medaka and Kumagawa Low 2-C statistics then, but Najimi should remain unknown, as she likely far exceeds such a tier.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, I am neutral about giving Medaka and Kumagawa Low 2-C statistics then, but Najimi should remain unknown, as she likely far exceeds such a tier.
Click to expand...
Exactly the reason i am also neutral on Ajimu gaining "at least Low 2-C" and why i didn't put it in the OP. I can agree to Ajimu being cut out from the scaling.
 
Well, if we are uncertain what is intended, it seems unwise to assign a definite tier.
 
I think you should take the statements case by case, apply context to assign the meaning. Rather than just rejecting all of them based on them being interchangable at times.
 
Medaka Box (kumagawa) only uses "world" for universe specifically (same word he uses when he erases colors), same for Ajimu. Medaka Box in general has shown to use world specifically for universe in all cases i can think of. And when adding in his already universal range, potency and the fact that he contributed to nullifying ajimu's universal skills it just makes more sense.
 
DontTalkDT is mainly supposed to handle wiki policy change analysis and applications, and complicated calc group forum discussion evaluations.
 
Ajimu being the absolute and undeniable God tier in the verse means that anything she does in the series is hilariously downscaled from what they make her out to be. While this is deliberately done because metafiction, it still does not discount the fact that giving her any tier other than Unknown is both undermining and overstating her power.

This weird paradox stems from the fact that Low 2-C, likely far higher is still laughably low for someone of Ajimu's capacity and really downplays her power. However, anything higher than that is unsubstantial and shaky at best. So I think she should remain at Unknown.

As for Kumagawa, his range is universal but that does not mean his abilities are. While yes, "world" and "universe" are interchangable phrases, there has to be more blatant evidence if you want me to believe he really can erase the universe. Plus, the ending to the anime really needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, as it massively breaks continuity and this is not even mentioning the fact that Kumagawa canonically never uses Non-Fiction, so you can't say he undid removing colour from the universe.

Look my guy, we don't hand out tiers based on just statements alone, especially not from a manga that favours rule of cool over making sense. Kumagawa has universal range, I'm willing to give you that. But no where does he ever erase the universe. What you're asking us to do now is assume he can erase the universe because people suggest that he can. Heck, you can remove all proof from Kumagawa's statements because he is a chronic liar. Anyone else who says he can based on his words is now less trustworthy.
 
That last argument blatantly misses context and misinterprets his character. Kumagawa doesn't lie needlessly, he lies for purpose. He also almost always is either deduced to be lying or tells us he was lying later, so if neither of these things happen with the statements then his statements can be taken as valid.
 
Sir Ovens seems to make sense to me.
 
@Ovens, i never argued ajimu to scale. But the argument of everyone downscaling is false. Misogi canonically used his abilities to affect Ajimu twice. She is stronger over all, but Bookmaker and All Fiction definitely scale.

Well Kumagawa uses world referring to "universe", same for every other use of the word. There is no scene where world has meant "planet" in Medaka Box.

Gagamaru also stated that he could do it, so it is far more believeable. It has been stated by 2 characters and scales from intercepting Ajimu's Low 2-C skills.

It's not just 1 statement that im throwing out. It's a constructive argument based on 2 statements, scaling, context and lack of contradiction with only additive relatively minor changes. (A 4D ability with universal range turning into a 4D ability with universal AP due to the aforementioned points).
 
The thing is that if Bookmaker and All-Fiction scale to Ajimu, then they are way above just Low 2-C. Which is massively outlier because they've never been used on anyone else even close to Ajimu's level.

As for the universe level statements, even if "world" is referred to as "universe" this does not discount the fact that Kumagawa has never erased the universe even once. Like, he doesn't even have statements of him erasing universes in the past, which would make his Low 2-C rating way more justified than the statements now.

Also, while I wasn't present at Kumagawa's universe level range thread, I'd like to actually see why it went through, considering the events of the anime make no sense continuity wise.
 
An outlier is only an outlier if there are anti-feats, which there aren't. Book Maker and All Fiction in combo are clearly meant to be of Ajimu's level
 
And outlier is also an outlier if something has been consistently used on a far lower scale than thier highest showing. Anything working on Ajimu should not be used to justify a tier because she is so far above everyone it's not even funny.

Look at it this way, if Bookmaker worked on Ajimu and we take that as gospel, then it should have no problems affecting Low 2-C characters and up with no defined limit. Because that's what Ajimu represents, a character with no defined limits, who the main character must overcome. You see wherein lies the problem? NLF. There is a clear limit to the scale of Kumagawa's abilities, and based on the story that's presented to us, that limit is below Low 2-C.
 
Book Maker is specifically meant to be far higher and on Ajimu's level. Everyone else it effected it did easily.

Saying something is low 2-C and saying something has no limits are not the same and you know it. Kumagawa doesn't have the backing of The Hero for you to simply toss it aside as PIS. Ajimu is at the very least Low 2-C, but we know she is far higher. No one except you is saying we should pin no limits onto book maker
 
"Never shown to work on anything close to Ajimu's level"

Cus she's as high as you can get. They affected Hanten too. There is literally no case of Bookmaker failing. Also it canonically worked along with All Fiction on Ajimu twice, and ajimu herself states "yeah bookmaker does work on me".

Well yeah, but as i said, intercepting Ajimu's Low 2-C stuff, on top of having several statements of being capable of Low 2-C feats and having feats of comparable level (4D, Universal range, universal concept nuking etc). Everything does indeed point towards Low 2-C All Fiction.

"Why it went through when he nukes the colors?"

Ajimu my dude, ajimu. Ajimu can just bring back the colors or create others. Nisio himself made that, we can't go and say "it's not cus it seems weird" and go against the author himself. It is possible to bring back the colors or create new ones especially when people lik Ajimu and Hanten are things in the verse.
 
Sir Ovens said:
Look my guy, we don't hand out tiers based on just statements alone
Click to expand...
Well, to be entirely fair most feats over Tier 3 can't really be expressed visually, although this is being a bit nitpicky.

If the issue is that "Ajimu is probably stupid higher then Low 2-C, so we can't rate her at Low 2-C", that just means we do "At least, likely far higher".

Mostly neutral on this because I don't know Medaka Box, although I trust Agnaa on this matter.
 
Cell has much more going for him though:

  • The guides say it.
  • The video games show it
  • Nothing contradicts he wouldn't bust the Solar System
  • It wouldn't be an outlier.
 
Statements with more supporting evidence, that aren't as vague.

So yeah, not statements alone.
 
This ain't on statements alone either, it's on feats near low 2-C, fears of intercepting low 2c skills on top of 2 statements of being capable to do so.
 
So what should we do here?
 
Okay. Feel free to ask more of them then.
 
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