Medaka Box Tiering CRT

[Firephoenixearl]

It just gives a wrong idea, was my point. Only 1 disagreed, 1 was neutral, it's not that he was against the topic. So you weren't wrong, it's just that it gives a wrong idea the way you put it.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Not really familiar with Medaka Box, so I am mostly neutral on this matter, but I think Agnaa's points seem to make sense here.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Agnaa did make a mistake though. On the point of "no one can scale to Ajimu" when All Fiction and Bookmaker specifically countered her and sealed her existence and all her skills for 3 years.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Why isn't this outlier, especially since they aren't used against anyone nearly as powerful as her ever again?

Like it has consistently worked on a bunch of 8-As and a handful of times on the absolute God tier.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

For the sole reasons of:

• The databooks say it.

• Ajimu herself states that it does work on her.

• Kumagawa states time and time again it does work on her.

• It worked on Hanten who's comparable to Ajimu.

• It worked on The End which is a skill that was capable of copying Ajimu's skills.

• It has never failed to work.

• Worked on an exact copy of Ajimu.

Your argument of "outlier" is not applicable as it would only be a case if it were stupid. Example batman who's a normal human kicking specter in the face. That's an obvious outlier and huge logic gap. This is not the same. Bookmaker and All Fiction are god tier skills who have never failed to work on anything. Whenever they have been used they have been able to do the job, be it against other god tier skills like The End, against both god tiers of the verse and twice at that. And the databooks and the characters themselves say "yeah it was legit". There is literally nothing saying or even leading to assume this is an outlier. When it has been done 3 times and all backed up by statements and even the guidebook.

 

[InfiniteSped]

It's never really failed to seal anyone iirc, so I don't think that argument quite works

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Working on Hanten and an exact clone of Ajimu should be enough to prove this.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Is there any scan that shows the dream world being an actual physical place?

 

[InfiniteSped]

And that Ajimu created the place?

 

[Antvasima]

Firephoenixearl has a point about Kumagawa.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Is there any scan that shows the dream world being an actual physical place?

I found no evidence supporting it being a physical place.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Is there any scan that shows the dream world being an actual physical place?

I found no evidence supporting it being a physical place.

Zenkichi trained there. But it's not just the dream world either, count in the universe creating skill too and all fiction's statements on top of that. They all just complement the Low 2-C tier with 0 contradiction.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

I was under the impression that was mental training.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Do you have the scans?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ps: More uses of the word "world" meaning "universe" i Medaka Box

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Do you have the scans?

From reading it again, the Dream World is a bit unclear on the physical part, but it has been shown to have a timeline/time flow of its ow including having it's own past. Which would still qualify for a Low 2-C world. This on top of as i said the universe creating skill, other 4D skills, All Fiction being capable of concept nuking the universe and 2 statements stating that "yes All Fiction can acomplish a Low 2-C feat" and literally every statement in the verse saying "world is universe".

I do not see why "Possibly Low 2-C" is off mark, unacceptable, or too much. Considering as i said, All Fiction is already Pseudo High 3-A.

 

[InfiniteSped]

If it's just a "mental" place that doesn't physically exists, it really shouldn't count. Only consciousness go there, and it's described as Kumagawa's heart at one point, so that doesn't really help with any tier 2 rating.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Baby Planet: While it's not impossible that this is literal, her skills descriptions are hard to take seriously. Like, when she was attacking those guys, she apparently used "Become Pregnant Skill", "Big Breast Skill", "Lay Eggs Skill", "Both Sides Kill Each Other Skill", etc. She also used Baby Planet there, it seems. She could certainly be able to do that, but that doesn't really convince me.

Other Universes: You seem to be implying that Ajimu created those other universes, but I don't think anything like that is ever stated. Alternate universes existing doesn't really point to any character being universal.

All Fiction: Statements could mean universe, but not necessarily. I disagree with it being 4-D in the first place.

Dream World: For these to count, they'd have to actually exist physically, which they don't seem to, and we'd need some confirmation that Ajimu actually created those.

Overall, I disagree with low 2-C.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Baby Planet was also re-translated from the databook to mean the same.

All Fiction. Statements do mean universe. As i showed literally every other use of the word "world" is referring to universe.

 

[Antvasima]

InfiniteSped makes some good points.

 

[InfiniteSped]

The problem isn't what it means, it's that other skills have some ridiculous descriptions that she uses normally when attacking those guys. Like laying eggs, killing herself, using stars as bullets, etc. And she apparently just went and created an universe while beating up a dude. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Just because they use it that way in some intances, doesn't mean all the others are the same. This could work, but since the other arguments backing it up don't seem to be valid, I don't think it's enough by itself.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Of course it doesn't make sense it's a gag manga and this character is extemely nihilistic.

A select amount of skills being ridiculous doesn't mean anything to another skill that has evidence from a guidebook to create a universe. We haven't actually seen what those abilities do, the ones with funny implications or what "Baby Planet" does.

Unless you're claiming all her skills are just idiotic and incomprehensible because a select few have funny names this isn't a point.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Doesn't the guidebook list all the skills she showed, Baby Planet just being one of them? They all have the same amount of evidence for them afaik, and some of them not making sense shows that those descriptions aren't really trustworthy, not without feats to back them up.

 

[The_Causality]

The name "Baby Planet" is a word game, actually, the real title of this ability is þöƒÒü¥ÒéîÒüƒÒüªÒü«Õ«çÕ«Ö which can be translated as "Newborn Universe" and from what i know, not all the ability Ajimu showed are listed in it, only the relevant (with other parodic ones)

But i'am busy to read all of the stuff on this thread and also IRL stuff, so good luck for the rest.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The skills existence by itself being backed up by the guidebook is proof enough. The fact that ajimu has a skill that according to the guidebook means "create a universe", is Low 2-C itself.

They use it that way in "all instances", not some. There is literally no case in the whole manga where "world" was referring to "earth/planet". There is no reason to assume these 2 are unlike the other 100 mentions of the word.

And again you're looking at these cases very specifically. I know that neither of these cases on their own are proof of Low 2-C, they aren't sufficient. But there are so many cases that it is heavily implying "Low 2-C":

• Ajimu's Baby Planet

• Medaka's Pioneer Flag

• All Fiction Statements

• All Fiction being pseudo High 3-A

Etc. So while neither on their own do give Low 2-C, there several cases making the tier very plausable. As an example take the SoL speed ratings on the characters. 1 statement would have never been enough to warrant that tier. But the fact that there were like 6 statements all around the series and very specific descriptions of things made the rating very plausable. Same thing here. 1 of those feats is not proof enough but when you look at all of them as a whole it makes the Low 2-C tier seem very likely.

That's why i say that "Possibly Low 2-C" for Medaka and Kumagawa is not wrong or far fetched considering they are already around that level already.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Doesn't the guidebook list all the skills she showed, Baby Planet just being one of them? They all have the same amount of evidence for them afaik, and some of them not making sense shows that those descriptions aren't really trustworthy, not without feats to back them up.

The guidebook is basically WoG. The author himself is saying things. We cannot say "well there is nothing to say the author isn't lying", same as we can do with characters.

 

[InfiniteSped]

The problem isn't the skill's name or descriptio. It's that she uses it alongside other skills that literally make her die, make her lay eggs, make her use stars as bullets, and kill whoever looks at her. She didn't die, she didn't lay eggs, the planet didn't go to hell after being hit by a star bullet, and the ones watching the fight didn't die. Those are all in the data book too, afaik, so those descriptions aren't trustworthy at all.

 

[InfiniteSped]

So, for low 2-C, you only really have the world statements, which aren't enough at all, imo.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes, but you cannot disregard things that are described in the guidebook. It's canon WoG, there is a reason it's called that. There is no argument you can bring up against WoG. We try to get as close to the true potency of the character as possible, if the creator of said character outright says "yeah she can create a universe", there is nothing you can say to debunk it.

So back to the point, Baby Planet still stands. If it were just a mistranslation it'd be different, but the fact that the guidebook also says "it creates a universe" makes it legit.

 

[InfiniteSped]

We see her using several skills that don't create the effects their description says they should. Why is Baby Planet different?

That alone should debunk it, unless she actually uses Baby Planet to create an universe.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

My question is: What is the argument that says "the author is wrong and the skill does not create a universe"?

You'd need a really good argument to defy word of god.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am undecided in either direction regarding this, but have limited time, so I have to unsubscribe from this thread. You can send me a message when you have reached a conclusion.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

We see her using several skills that don't create the effects their description says they should. Why is Baby Planet different?

Which skills would that be?

 

[InfiniteSped]

There were apparently two suicide skills there, for one.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Beautiful Last Scene (µ£ëµò░Òü«þ¥ÄµäÅÞ¡ÿ, Byütifuru Rasuto Sh─½): Self-destruct skill.[147]

Last Murder (µ«║õ║║ÕìöÞ│ø, Rasuto M─üd─ü): Both sides kill each other skill.[147]

 

[Paul_Frank]

she is immortal anyway so neither of those skills could possibly affect her

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

It seems like quite a few users have issues with All Fiction being 4-D, myself included. Perhaps it's best to make a separate thread regarding that? Anyway back on topic I agree with Agnna and Infinitesped regarding this topic.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Beautiful Last Scene (µ£ëµò░Òü«þ¥ÄµäÅÞ¡ÿ, Byütifuru Rasuto Sh─½): Self-destruct skill.[147]
Last Murder (µ«║õ║║ÕìöÞ│ø, Rasuto M─üd─ü): Both sides kill each other skill.[147]

Them being overlapping skills doesn't mean they are not distinct. She explicitly has other skills that effectively make others obsolete

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It seems like quite a few users have issues with All Fiction being 4-D, myself included. Perhaps it's best to make a separate thread regarding that? Anyway back on topic I agree with Agnna and Infinitesped regarding this topic.

That was already accepted by many members including Ant and a Consultant though. Im not going back to the 4D thread.