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Finally the CRT is over and the Celestials are now 3-C. Here is the second part to revise the P&A of the Celestials
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Good luck getting that acceptedThanks for making my job impossible
I calculated the mass of the galaxy-sized star using the density of the sun, which I don't know if it's correct to do it that way, and I got very inflated results, and by inflated I mean millions of times higher than the baseline of Universal AP and LS
Though the calc probably doesn't sound reliableWouldn’t be ridiculous considering Arshiem created the universe seemgly casually
I don't think you can calculate stars to be that big, they'd end up as black holes as we both know, no GBEs from black holes.I calculated the mass of the galaxy-sized star using the density of the sun, which I don't know if it's correct to do it that way, and I got very inflated results, and by inflated I mean millions of times higher than the baseline of Universal AP and LS
I have seen accepted calcs that use GBE to calculate Black Holes, likewise we can see Celestials creating galaxy sized suns without any problem and according to this thread GBE can be used on celestial bodies of that sizeI don't think you can calculate stars to be that big, they'd end up as black holes as we both know, no GBEs from black holes.
That was for Asura's Wrath and even then DontTalkDT had massive contentions with the methods used, but he was ultimately overruled.I have seen accepted calcs that use GBE to calculate Black Holes, likewise we can see Celestials creating galaxy sized suns without any problem and according to this thread GBE can be used on celestial bodies of that size
Oh, fair then,going from 4-C to millions of times 3-A would have been interesting
I mean, DontTalkDT lost and Asura's Wrath got upgraded to 3-A via Chakravartin's GBE which makes no sense because he's not spherical in the least big but hey, here we are
3-A Thor would be World War 3 lmaoSo you're telling me that 3-A Celestials and Thor is possible
FammmmmmmmSo you're telling me that 3-A Celestials and Thor is possible
3-A Thor would be World War 3 lmao
So you're telling me that 3-A Celestials and Thor is possible
Hax, not AP. Loki and Sylvie don't fight or harm Alioth in any wayOh, since MCU Loki is directly connected to MCU Thor and various MCU cosmic level events, can someone explain to me how Loki and his variants of comparable power are all listed as base 8-A Multi-City-Block Level, when two of them together enchanted 2-A Multiverse+ Alioth?
Not how it works. Dividing a 2-A attack by two doesn't make the individual characters 4-AI'm not saying Lokis need to be 2A, but seriously, even if you chop their VSBattles Tiering by half (accounting for two of them vs Alioth) shouldn't each Loki's Attack Potency be at least 4-A Multi-Solar System Level?
So then why is there no accounting for Hax in VSBattles Tiering? If Hax stops an opponent, controls an opponent, beats an opponent, how does it not factor into Tiering numbers?Hax, not AP. Loki and Sylvie don't fight or harm Alioth in any way
Not how it works. Dividing a 2-A attack by two doesn't make the individual characters 4-A
Because most of the time it bypasses durability. Plain and simple.So then why is there no accounting for Hax in VSBattles Tiering? If Hax stops an opponent, controls an opponent, beats an opponent, how does it not factor into Tiering numbers?
Okay thanks, this explains why VSBattles tiers MCU high-tier feats the way it does. Bifrost moving dozens of stars each light years away would be Hax. Celestial Ego's plan to spread spores over all known inhabited planets in the universe would be Hax. Doctor Strange imprisoning 2-C Low Multiverse Dormammu in a time loop would be Hax. Wanda destroying all Darkholds across the multiverse and thus saving countless universes from rogue alt-Doctor Strange incursions would be Hax. Maybe consider that the MCU operates on Hax and your Tiering system for the biggest entertainment franchise in history unintentionally lowballs lots of its characters? Nevertheless I hope you still get MCU Thor to star-plus.Because most of the time it bypasses durability. Plain and simple.
Hax
Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant. The most common hax are the ones that ignore durability, and their scale/potency are unrelated to their users' AP & Tier, however, they can be measured with...vsbattles.fandom.com
You do realize that not every verse is Dragon Ball where hax is brute-forced with strength alone, right? Being a higher tier doesn't automatically make you immune to hax unless existential layer dimensional shenanigans become involved.Okay thanks, this explains why VSBattles tiers MCU high-tier feats the way it does. Bifrost moving dozens of stars each light years away would be Hax. Celestial Ego's plan to spread spores over all known inhabited planets in the universe would be Hax. Doctor Strange imprisoning 2-C Low Multiverse Dormammu in a time loop would be Hax. Wanda destroying all Darkholds across the multiverse and thus saving countless universes from rogue alt-Doctor Strange incursions would be Hax. Maybe consider that the MCU operates on Hax and your Tiering system for the biggest entertainment franchise in history unintentionally lowballs lots of its characters? Nevertheless I hope you still get MCU Thor to star-plus.
That enchanting thing they're doing is a feat that requires them to peer into the victims mind and grab hold of a memory. That kind of hax isn't applicable for Tiering or Attack PotencyOkay thanks, this explains why VSBattles tiers MCU high-tier feats the way it does. Bifrost moving dozens of stars each light years away would be Hax. Celestial Ego's plan to spread spores over all known inhabited planets in the universe would be Hax. Doctor Strange imprisoning 2-C Low Multiverse Dormammu in a time loop would be Hax. Wanda destroying all Darkholds across the multiverse and thus saving countless universes from rogue alt-Doctor Strange incursions would be Hax. Maybe consider that the MCU operates on Hax and your Tiering system for the biggest entertainment franchise in history unintentionally lowballs lots of its characters? Nevertheless I hope you still get MCU Thor to star-plus.
First one is straight up hax, doesn't have range or AP.That enchanting thing they're doing is a feat that requires them to peer into the victims mind and grab hold of a memory. That kind of hax isn't applicable for Tiering or Attack Potency
Moving stars is perfectly acceptable. We accepted it for Khonshu
Ego's Expansion is also accepted on the wiki as Environmental Destruction
The Time Stone's time loop is still listed under its Attack Potency, so I'm not sure about that one
The type hax that Wanda used to destroy the Darkhold can't be used for Attack Potency
Yeah but there are Hax and then there are Hax. Random dudes who through no ability of their own hit Superman with Kryptonite is a pure Hax that should not scale to that random dude's power. But Thor's BODY tanked the Bifrost energy beam as it was sucking in stars. Strange is the only known sorcerer except Agomoto to figure out how to use the Time Stone against Dormammu. Ego itself and its own DNA in Quill caused the Expansion across the universe. Wanda is stated onscreen is to be able to enslave or destroy the multiverse. I'm just saying that the MCU has committed to imbedding what you call Hax as inherent to their main characters' powers.You do realize that not every verse is Dragon Ball where hax is brute-forced with strength alone, right? Being a higher tier doesn't automatically make you immune to hax unless existential layer dimensional shenanigans become involved.
That's more of a skill thing than an AP thing, Dormammu just didn't have any protection against being trapped in a time loopStrange is the only known sorcerer except Agomoto to figure out how to use the Time Stone against Dormammu
Apparently powerful enough artifacts are capable of impacting Dormammu, such as Infinity Stones, but yeah. Not sure whether that's APAs for the Time Stone, pretty sure that should be a hax thing but the range is definitely upto the mark.
Kryptonite isn't even hax, it's literally a weaknessYeah but there are Hax and then there are Hax. Random dudes who through no ability of their own hit Superman with Kryptonite is a pure Hax that should not scale to that random dude's power. But Thor's BODY tanked the Bifrost energy beam as it was sucking in stars. Strange is the only known sorcerer except Agomoto to figure out how to use the Time Stone against Dormammu. Ego itself and its own DNA in Quill caused the Expansion across the universe. Wanda is stated onscreen is to be able to enslave or destroy the multiverse. I'm just saying that the MCU has committed to imbedding what you call Hax as inherent to their main characters' powers.
That's not hax. That's taking advantage of a weaknessRandom dudes who through no ability of their own hit Superman with Kryptonite is a pure Hax that should not scale to that random dude's power.
But Thor's BODY tanked the Bifrost energy beam as it was sucking in stars.
Like what Aguywhodoesthings said: That's skill, not APStrange is the only known sorcerer except Agomoto to figure out how to use the Time Stone against Dormammu.
Perfectly fineEgo itself and its own DNA in Quill caused the Expansion across the universe.
This is addressed here. It is possible to use it, but extremely pointless at the same timeWanda is stated onscreen is to be able to enslave or destroy the multiverse.
And it's perfectly fine depending on the type of hax. Something like Memory/Mind Manipulation in the case of Sylvie's enchanting is a big no. Something like Spatial Manipulation in the case of Khonshu's star feat is fineI'm just saying that the MCU has committed to imbedding what you call Hax as inherent to their main characters' powers.
OK, just to be 100% clear, are we saying that a character's ability to stop and control a multiversal entity who was about to destroy that character does not impact the character's Tier?That's not hax. That's taking advantage of a weakness
Main problem is that the wiki doesn't like Tier 4 - 3 MCU Thor
Like what Aguywhodoesthings said: That's skill, not AP
Perfectly fine
This is addressed here
And it's perfectly fine depending on the type of hax. Memory/Mind Manipulation in the case of Sylvie's enchanting is a big no. But Spatial Manipulation in the case of Khonshu's star feat is fine
Yes, because Sylvie and Loki can't scale their Memory/Mind Manipulation to the 2-A Attack Potency of AliothOK, just to be 100% clear, are we saying that a character's ability to stop and control a multiversal entity who was about to destroy that character does not impact the character's Tier?
If they can physically harm him, then we're talking business.Apparently powerful enough artifacts are capable of impacting Dormammu, such as Infinity Stones, but yeah. Not sure whether that's AP