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The P&A CRT?Speaking of which, did that second crt of the Celestials go through?
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The P&A CRT?Speaking of which, did that second crt of the Celestials go through?
It's dead, although the changes were applied before being accepted, and there are still more things to deal withYeah
changes were applied before being accepted
Uhhhh, no he wasn't. Like, that's literally just a bold faced lie. He was still conscious. I'm not saying he scales to the full power of Hulk. I'm saying the fact that he's conscious at all shows that he isn't billions of times weaker like the pages say he is. If he truly scales to IM (which he doesn't he was caught off guard both times and completely unscathed), then Hulk would've outright killed him. Loki also survived a full power lightning blast from Thor in Thor 1 (But like with Hulk was left unable to move). He scales to the Warriors 3 who were able to take attacks from the Destroyer. Loki shouldn't be relegated to IM level for 2 off guard showings.He legit was close to being paste tho.
Being conscious =/= having survived it well enough to scale.Uhhhh, no he wasn't. Like, that's literally just a bold faced lie. He was still conscious.
He doesn't scale at all. He got ******* floored by those slams. You can be infinitely stronger than someone and still floor them without killing them if you know how much strength to apply, and I'm pretty sure Hulk while having anger as his main goal, is at least smart enough to not end up accidentally killing his weaker team mates.I'm not saying he scales to the full power of Hulk. I'm saying the fact that he's conscious at all shows that he isn't billions of times weaker like the pages say he is.
Again, we have people several tiers higher non-lethally one-shot lower-tier people all the freakin' time. This is nothing new.If he truly scales to IM (which he doesn't he was caught off guard both times and completely unscathed), then Hulk would've outright killed him.
Thor was massively holding back against Loki, if he wanted to kill him, he'd have done it right then and there without any prior warning.Loki also survived a full power lightning blast from Thor in Thor 1 (But like with Hulk was left unable to move).
The Destroyer nearly killed them all, Thor straight up got killed in human form until Mjolnir responded to his death.He scales to the Warriors 3 who were able to take attacks from the Destroyer. Loki shouldn't be relegated to IM level for 2 off guard showings.
1. In the final battle of Avengers, before Hulk smashed Loki, Thor punched Loki seven times in a row in 10 seconds, and Loki kept fighting Thor. So Loki took Iron Man's repulsor blast, Thor's punches, and Hulk's rampage. The fact none of this even knocked Loki unconscious is a testament to his durability.That's not grounds to scale, AT ALL. Man was literally floored and was moaning in agonizing pain.
If you have a problem with how our wiki works in general with these standards, then I'm afraid this is not the place for you.
Still isn't a grounds for scaling at all. They all could've killed him if they wanted to.1. In the final battle of Avengers, before Hulk smashed Loki, Thor punched Loki seven times in a row in 10 seconds, and Loki kept fighting Thor. So Loki took Iron Man's repulsor blast, Thor's punches, and Hulk's rampage. The fact none of this even knocked Loki unconscious is a testament to his durability.
This is not how this works. Loki was fighting Thor with the Staff.1. In the final battle of Avengers, before Hulk smashed Loki, Thor punched Loki seven times in a row in 10 seconds, and Loki kept fighting Thor. So Loki took Iron Man's repulsor blast, Thor's punches, and Hulk's rampage. The fact none of this even knocked Loki unconscious is a testament to his durability.
If you keep proposing views that don't match up with our wiki's standards, we will be forced to report you to the RVT.2. Unless you can deactivate my account, I will comment here as I see fit.
Okay and? Doesn't mean their standards of powerscaling is the same as ours.And the reason I comment here is because VSBattles appears on the first page of Google whenever I type "MCU Thor power level." Lots of people see VSBattles tiers.
This is a very subjective thing to say because VSDebating in its very nature is incredibly subjective. What you think works may not work elsewhere. I am sorry, but this is how we do things and you should do the same, or else seek some other place to unload your worries.So you all have an ethical obligation to get it right.
This is not how this works. Loki was fighting Thor with the Staff.
If you keep proposing views that don't match up with our wiki's standards, we will be forced to report you to the RVT.
Okay and? Doesn't mean their standards of powerscaling is the same as ours.
This is a very subjective thing to say because VSDebating in its very nature is incredibly subjective. What you think works may not work elsewhere. I am sorry, but this is how we do things and you should do the same, or else seek some other place to unload your worries.
Get me blocked then. The durability tiers here for MCU Thor and Loki have always been wrong, on a factual objective basis.
These clips show that in Thor 1 the Bifrost energy beam was moving stars. Multiple stars are clearly moving in relation to each other in each of the clips below. Moving stars is a physical act with destructive power, Thor and Loki tanked the Bridge part of the Bifrost blowing up with the equivalent destructive power, all of which occurred AT THE SAME TIME that the energy beam used the equivalent destructive power to damage the planet Jotunheim from ANOTHER GALAXY.
Reality Stone is Reality Warping and Durability Negation. Does not scale to physicals.These are not outliers. In Thor's very next solo movie, he survives a point blank Reality Stone explosion to the face as it was IN THE PROCESS OF DESTROYING THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE, which by onscreen statements would have occurred within one more minute.
Then in Thor 3 Hela casually destroys Mjolnir, which TANKED THE ABOVE EXPLOSIONS, then Hela chokes Thor with the same hands that destroyed Mjolnir, while slamming Thor into the actual Bifrost energy beam, the Bifrost energy beam shown capable of physically moving stars in Thor 1. Thor stays conscious throughout Hela's attack, which she later said she thought had killed him. Loki also tanks getting rammed through the Bifrost energy beam here.
Sorry to burst your bubble but uh...And all of this is BEFORE Nidavellir, defined onscreen as a neutron star, which Thor is stated and shown onscreen to survive an energy beam that comes from the heart of that star. Heart of this star is the core of this star, as shown onscreen in Thor 1 by the page of a book recounting the creation of Mjolnir. Neutron star core temperatures average 500 BILLION DEGREES, gravity is 72x our sun, solar mass 2x our sun. NASA's own webpage shows a neutron star the exact SAME COLOR as Nidavellir. And the onscreen size of Nidavellir's sphere MATCHES the 2.8 mile diameter of NASA's size calcs for the core of a real neutron star.
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/science/neutron_stars.html#:~:text=Neutron stars cram roughly 1.3,kilometers (12 miles) across.
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/chandra/multimedia/casa2011.html
https://www.nature.com/articles/546018a
https://www.space.com/22180-neutron-stars.html
In every possible respect, the MCU has consistently shown that Thor and Loki have survived star-level destructive assaults. Hence their real durability (what it takes to KILL THEM) has always been at least star-level-plus.
You cannot be serious LMFAO(And yes, Thanos choking Loki to death with the Infinity Gauntlet is a star-level-plus feat. Thanos casually crushed the Tesseract with his bare hand, the Tesseract that is stated onscreen in Avengers 1 as capable of withstanding anything less than 120 Million Kelvin degrees. Our sun's peak core temperature is 15 Million Kelvin.)
https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/solar-system/sun/overview/#:~:text=The%20temperature%20in%20the%20Sun's,enough%20to%20sustain%20nuclear%20fusion.
Reality Stone is Reality Warping and Durability Negation. Does not scale to physicals.
The star is pretty ******* old. And Thor only took 50K kelvin worth of heat, which I calculated to be 7-B.
Reality Stone does not do Nuclear Transmutation, I think it'd be pretty clear if it did, because not even Erik Selvig would then be able to ignore the harmful radioactive waves it'd emit, but nope, people are running, screaming and shouting in close vicinity just fine.1. Thor 2 states the Reality Stone was transmuting matter into dark matter. Nuclear transmutation is a real scientific phenomenon. Transmuting every atom in the universe by definition requires the equivalent energy.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20205008118/downloads/E-19811J-4 Revised Paper Clean Copy Final Proof Edits.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_transmutation
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/ab...what-is-the-mass-of-the-universe-intermediate
After Malekith started using the Reality Stone to destroy the universe, Jane said she could not get close enough to use Selvig's gravimetric spikes. When Thor walked through the infinity storm he was visibly struggling with each step, showing the Reality Stone exerted physical force on him. Then the blast knocked Thor back several yards and unconscious, while greatly damaging his armor, all of which require physical force from the Reality Stone.
2. US Department of Energy says the average surface temperate of all known neutron stars is 1.8 million degrees Fahrenheit, well above 50K kelvin. NASA says most neutron stars are billions of years old.
https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsneutron-stars
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/science/neutron_stars.html
No and no.Furthermore, the temperature at which something melts does not define the temperature of the thing melting it. A 500 million degree star core can melt metal that melts at 50K degrees. The logic that the star must max out at the melting temperature of the metal is wrong. And to be 100% clear, that Wakanda Files image does NOT say Nidavellir's energy beam was 50K Kelvin. Your calc is wrong.
1. Your harmful radioactive waves statement is headcanon because the Reality Stone is converting matter into dark matter. It is NOT sending out normal matter and energy, which all science on radioactive decay is based. NASA admits to knowing next to nothing about dark matter except that there is a lot of it:Reality Stone does not do Nuclear Transmutation, I think it'd be pretty clear if it did, because not even Erik Selvig would then be able to ignore the harmful radioactive waves it'd emit, but nope, people are running, screaming and shouting in close vicinity just fine.
No and no.
Also, the melting point of Uru is 50K kelvin, and the star is already sealed shut forcing Thor to open it himself, and it doesn't melt the metal instantly, taking a few minutes.
What is headcanon is to say that the Reality Stone does nuclear transmutation, it is a fantasy stone that allows you to manipulate reality at will, there is no science behind it because it is FICTION, or you also have a scientific explanation of why the Celestials are capable of creating galaxy-sized suns that have more mass and energy than the universe itself?1. Your harmful radioactive waves statement is headcanon because the Reality Stone is converting matter into dark matter. It is NOT sending out normal matter and energy, which all science on radioactive decay is based. NASA admits to knowing next to nothing about dark matter except that there is a lot of it:
I'm not talking about the science of Celestials and their star-galaxy creation. I'm talking about the Reality Stone as used in Thor 2. And Odin says onscreen "It changes matter into dark matter." Matter and dark matter are real things. It's a factual statement that matter is made of atoms with nuclear cohesion. That's not headcanon, that's just true. Whatever happens to turn matter into dark matter by definition requires changing the atomic structure of matter. There is no way around that. Because the real world is made of atoms with nuclear cohesion. Denying this is denying the basic fundamentals of what is real. If that's where you wanna go on this thread, have fun.What is headcanon is to say that the Reality Stone does nuclear transmutation, it is a fantasy stone that allows you to manipulate reality at will, there is no science behind it because it is FICTION, or you also have a scientific explanation of why the Celestials are capable of creating galaxy-sized suns that have more mass and energy than the universe itself?
Burden of proof is on you to show that my statement is headcanon, because the entire purpose of the Reality Stone is to manipulate reality at will. Nothing IRL can do it as efficiently as the Reality Stone can.1. Your harmful radioactive waves statement is headcanon because the Reality Stone is converting matter into dark matter. It is NOT sending out normal matter and energy, which all science on radioactive decay is based. NASA admits to knowing next to nothing about dark matter except that there is a lot of it:
https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/9-12/features/what-is-dark-matter.html
Can't burn hot enough if there isn't enough material to burn. Stars lose mass and heat as they age because they burn up the materials required to sustain them, it's not infinite.2. Per the link to your first "no" on neutron stars which says "most are old and cold and radiate very little" ... that is not a temperature.
It's called "A star grows old and burns out the materials needed to sustain it and thus grows colder and smaller and generates less heat".What temperature does "old and cold" mean? Without a temperature that statement is meaningless.
It's basic physics, why would this need a document?Also, what exactly is the source document for that statement?
Same thing I have been trying to hammer down for the last few comments. On-screen showings and statements > Wacky aspects of IRL science that have incredibly tight restrictions with regards to being applied to fiction on this wiki.3. What is your second "no" referring to, exactly?
Sorry, that's not how it works. Official statements and on-screen showings > everything else.4. Stormbreaker's melted Uru is NOT directly exposed to the star's energy beam, as the energy beam heats burners and then a cauldron containing the Uru. So all statements about 50K Kelvin star heat are baseless.
Who's to say the pipes and cauldrons aren't made of more heat-resistant materials?The star's heat transfers through several yards of pipe before it reaches the Uru that melts into Stormbreaker, AND THE PIPES AND CAULDRON DO NOT MELT THEMSELVES. Therefore the pipes and cauldron obviously can withstand temperatures above 50K Kelvin. Your calc is wrong.
That's called evaporation.5. Also, the melting point of a substance does NOT occur instantly once it comes into contact with that temperature. Ice melts at 32 degrees Fahrenheit. It's 72 degrees Fahrenheit in my home right now. I just held this ice cube in the open palm of my hand for over a minute before any water appeared, and the other ice cube I sat on my counter took eight minutes to fully liquify.
Most of this is evasion and does not supply the requested documentation or numbers that would serve as a basis for the facts of your statement.Burden of proof is on you to show that my statement is headcanon, because the entire purpose of the Reality Stone is to manipulate reality at will. Nothing IRL can do it as efficiently as the Reality Stone can.
Can't burn hot enough if there isn't enough material to burn. Stars lose mass and heat as they age because they burn up the materials required to sustain them, it's not infinite.
It's called "A star grows old and burns out the materials needed to sustain it and thus grows colder and smaller and generates less heat".
It's basic physics, why would this need a document?
Same thing I have been trying to hammer down for the last few comments. On-screen showings and statements > Wacky aspects of IRL science that have incredibly tight restrictions with regards to being applied to fiction on this wiki.
Sorry, that's not how it works. Official statements and on-screen showings > everything else.
Who's to say the pipes and cauldrons aren't made of more heat-resistant materials?
That's called evaporation.
This isn't evasion, this is literally how it works around here.Most of this is evasion and does not supply the requested documentation or numbers that would serve as a basis for the facts of your statement.
Okay and? That still does not tell us by how much higher the temperature at the core was. Thor wasn't exactly in the dead center either."Who's to say the pipes and cauldron aren't made of more heat resistant materials?" -- Heat resistant materials have a higher melting point than other materials that melt at lower temperatures. Heat resistant does not mean impervious to melting from heat. Proof:
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/176628/new-record-worlds-most-heat-resistant/
That means the pipes and cauldron melt at temperatures higher than Uru.
That still does not tell us how much higher the temperature at the source was, for all we know, it could be slightly hotter than the melting point of Uru by an unquantifiable amount.As for ice melting outside the freezer, that is not evaporation because it did eventually turn to liquid. As per the US Department of the Interior:
"Evaporation is the process that changes liquid water to gaseous water (water vapor). Water moves from the Earth’s surface to the atmosphere via evaporation."
https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/water-science-school/science/evaporation-and-water-cycle#:~:text=does it occur?-,Evaporation is the process that changes liquid water to gaseous,water molecules together to break.
I was not talking about evaporation. I was talking about ice melting, as an example of why Uru would not melt instantly.
Okay.This isn't evasion, this is literally how it works around here.
Shown feats and statements in fiction > IRL laws unless stated otherwise.
Okay and? That still does not tell us by how much higher the temperature at the core was. Thor wasn't exactly in the dead center either.
That still does not tell us how much higher the temperature at the source was, for all we know, it could be slightly hotter than the melting point of Uru by an unquantifiable amount.
So what is the current proposed tier for Thor, Gorr and co.?
I'm still not sure if the consensus is to push for 3-C or go for upscaling from Khonshu. Personally I think the latter has a much higher chance of successSo what is the current proposed tier for Thor, Gorr and co.?
Yeah, I'm all for upscaling from Khonshu, but 3-C doesn't seem likely to get acceptedI'm still not sure if the consensus is to push for 3-C or go for upscaling from Khonshu. Personally I think the latter has a much higher chance of success
Best I could find was this shit clip used by an MCU Thor powerscaling YouTube videoCan someone post the scene were Thor Valkyrie and Jane talk about omnitpotent city?
thanks but that’s not all of the clip that I needBest I could find was this shit clip used by an MCU Thor powerscaling YouTube video
They're likely not going to scale to the Celestials and will probably only scale to the Egyptian Gods who are around 5-B+/4-A. And also, the Stormbreaker shouldn't be backscaledjust to start some conversation again here's some updates I made to my sandbox for Thor and Mighty Thor now that Celestials are 3-C
Love & Thunder sandboxes
vsbattles.fandom.com
is the 4-A rating not only Spatial Manipulation from Khonshu and non-applicable to AP?They're likely not going to scale to the Celestials and will probably only scale to the Egyptian Gods who are around 5-B+/4-A. And also, the Stormbreaker shouldn't be backscaled
It is only with Spatial Manip thois the 4-A rating not only Spatial Manipulation from Khonshu and non-applicable to AP?
just to start some conversation again here's some updates I made to my sandbox for Thor and Mighty Thor now that Celestials are 3-C
Love & Thunder sandboxes
vsbattles.fandom.com
Low Multiverse level as a Super Saiyan (Held his own against a casual Gamma 1, although prior to unleashing his potential he was on the back foot)