MCU Love & Thunder Spoiler Thread

[Qawsedf234]

I don't want this thread to get locked like that one did

Based on your last comment on that thread I believed that you had given up on the purpose of the CRT. If you still have more to say I can reopen it, even if it's just as a last response since that's proper debate courtesy.

Although I do believe I captured the essence of that previous thread in my above post

Headcanon or variation of that word was only used three times in thqt thread and only twice if you don't Include quotation boxes. Of those two instances you said it once and I said that the subject you called headcanon was just canon material according to WoG.

Me: “Thor 1 he tanked an exploding Bifrost, which his first and fourth movies define as an Einstein-Rosen Bridge wormhole, and NASA calculates that as at least star-level in power.”

VS Battles: “Headcanon.”

I said that the feat doesn't match up with what you're suggesting. The Bifrost doesn't operate like a real wormhole, the MCU has canon static wormhole positions and the object it's based on stabilizes quantum tunneling to open a portal.

Me: “Thor 2 he overcame the Reality Stone and survived a point blank explosion to prevent the immediate destruction of the universe, an explosion that knocked him out for 1 minute.”

VS Battles: “Headcanon.”

I'm the only one who addressed it and I never said headcanon. I did call it an outlier because claiming Thor is universal is indeed an outlier.

But for the plot the Reality Stone was going to manipulate and change reality. It's not an AP feat you can scale to anyone.

Me: “IW Thor survived a Power Stone explosion that exceeded the force of a singularity, and he survived a neutron star which on average produces heat and gravity many times the sun.”

VS Battles: “Headcanon.”

This was addressed with in-universe material. The power stone's power is dependent on target size. The Neutron Star Thor withstood was also an ancient one with far less heat than a young Neutron Star.

The gravity aspect has been tried on a couple upgrade threads but it's hard to get anywhere when the scene rather consistently breaks physics.

Me: “The simplest answer seems to be that, across several movies, the MCU gave Thor so many feats, so consistently, that can be interpreted as star-level, because Thor is in fact star-level.”

VS Battles: “Headcanon.”

The numbers you gave were bare minimum solar system busting and at the maximum universal. If you were asking for a 4-C upgrade you used possibly the worst examples for that upgrade (besides Zeus).

 

[Dalesean027]

1:08
After his does what he does to create more shadows the sun is seen moving around at FTL speeds for the entire duration of the fight

 

[Qawsedf234]

Who else could it have been?

Just the realm? Throughout the entire fight you see the ball of light constantly spin around the asteroid. If you looked hard enough it also wouldn't shock me if there was enough weird to stuff to suggest it isn't a star in the first place.

 

[KLOL506]

1:08
After his does what he does to create more shadows the sun is seen moving around at FTL speeds for the entire duration of the fight

A bit blurry but I do see the Sun moving in the 1:26 mark. The asteroid remains still unlike the Sun which just zips across the sky.

 

[Dalesean027]

Just the realm? Throughout the entire fight you see the ball of light constantly spin around the asteroid. If you looked hard enough it also wouldn't shock me if there was enough weird to stuff to suggest it isn't a star in the first place.

Nah the shots of them outside before manipulates the shadows it's a pretty static light source

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Nah the shots of them outside before manipulates the shadows it's a pretty static light source

^

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Upon arriving on the asteroid, the star is completely static. It only starts moving when the fight begins

 

[Qawsedf234]

The star only starts moving when the fight itself begins.

It means either Gorr was rotating a star around the asteroid at FTL speeds for the entire fight or that Thor summoning Stormbreaker caused the asteroid to start rapidly spinning.

Either is plausible (I guess), but I wonder what the RKE of the second figure would be. It might be a good backup upgrade if nothing else.

 

[Dalesean027]

Thor summoning Stormbreaker

The reason why I don't think it's this is because the debris and all presentations for the things on and involving the asteroid are mostly static otherwise shit would be shooting out at absolutely insane speeds

Either is plausible, but I wonder would the RKE of the second figure would be. It might be a good backup upgrade if nothing else

But yeah this would still be good

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Heard someone say that if the asteroid were rotating rapidly enough to make the star look like its cycling across the asteroid the debris would start flying around. So its more likely that Gorr is moving the star

 

[Qawsedf234]

the debris would start flying around.

I mean the debris was still moving weird even under the assumption the planet has weirdly high gravity.

Either way I don't think it's a bad end to use for a calc. If it's better than what we currently have we can always good with a more flexible "X, likely 4-C" route anyways.

 

[Dalesean027]

I mean the debris was still moving weird even under the assumption the planet has weirdly high gravity.

Either way I don't think it's a bad end to use for a calc. If it's better than what we currently have we can always good with a more flexible "X, likely 4-C" route anyways.

Elden Ring profile type literally Radahn lol

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Even tier 4 getting recognized is a win

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

I could go with likely 4-C

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

Gonna try calcuing the yield if it was the asteroid spinning
So according to this calc by Abaddon the asteroid is around 61.7421685383m in diameter and 30.871084m in radius
Volume = 4/3 x π x 30.871084m^3 = 123237.88m3
Mass = 123237.88m3 x 3350kg/m3 = 412846898kg
Circumference = π x 61.7421685383m = 193.968743m
using 6 seconds for the timeframe (the time it takes for the sun to disappear from view and come back)
Sped = 193.968743m/6s = 32.32812m/s
KE = 0.5 x 412846898kg x 32.32812m/s^2 = 215734662262.4599 joules or 51.56 Tons of TNT (not star level)

 

[Dalesean027]

Gonna try calcuing the yield if it was the asteroid spinning
So according to this calc by Abaddon the asteroid is around 61.7421685383m in diameter and 30.871084m in radius
Volume = 4/3 x π x 30.871084m^3 = 123237.88m3
Mass = 123237.88m3 x 3350kg/m3 = 412846898kg
Circumference = π x 61.7421685383m = 193.968743m
using 6 seconds for the timeframe (the time it takes for the sun to disappear from view and come back)
Sped = 193.968743m/6s = 32.32812m/s
KE = 0.5 x 412846898kg x 32.32812m/s^2 = 215734662262.4599 joules or 51.56 Tons of TNT (not star level)

City block level yikes

 

[Propellus]

Gonna try calcuing the yield if it was the asteroid spinning
So according to this calc by Abaddon the asteroid is around 61.7421685383m in diameter and 30.871084m in radius
Volume = 4/3 x π x 30.871084m^3 = 123237.88m3
Mass = 123237.88m3 x 3350kg/m3 = 412846898kg
Circumference = π x 61.7421685383m = 193.968743m
using 6 seconds for the timeframe (the time it takes for the sun to disappear from view and come back)
Sped = 193.968743m/6s = 32.32812m/s
KE = 0.5 x 412846898kg x 32.32812m/s^2 = 215734662262.4599 joules or 51.56 Tons of TNT (not star level)

Yikes

 

[Dalesean027]

To be fair the size and physics on that asteroid are still inconsistent as hell with the wideshot having literally no one not even the ship visible

 

[Dalesean027]

Anywhoo pretending we never saw that calc I'd still say argue for flatout tier 4 Thor with likely being our compromise but I'd still say the consistency of the Gods star feats, gorr's sun feat, coupled with Thor's statement and the strongest he'd ever been statements from WoG would make a solid case for at the very least possibly 4-C imo

 

[Propellus]

Does this sound fine?

At least High 6-C, likely 4-C

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Does this sound fine?

At least High 6-C, likely 4-C

That would be the compromise, yes

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Though given there's plans to upgrade the Celestials since they also create supergiant stars, the tier could be High 4-C

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Anywhoo pretending we never saw that calc I'd still say argue for flatout tier 4 Thor with likely being our compromise but I'd still say the consistency of the Gods star feats, gorr's sun feat, coupled with Thor's statement and the strongest he'd ever been statements from WoG would make a solid case for at the very least possibly 4-C imo

That's exactly what's gonna happen. The plan is to argue flatout tier 4 L&T characters with the compromise being 'likely'

 

[Qawsedf234]

61.7421685383m in diameter and 30.871084m in radius
Volume = 4/3 x π x 30.871084m^3 = 123237.88m3
Mass = 123237.88m3 x 3350kg/m3 = 412846898kg
Circumference = π x 61.7421685383m = 193.968743m

Would you have to use M = gr^2/G for mass? M = Mass in kilograms, g = gravitational acceleration, r = radius from core in meters, and G = universal gravitational constant.

 

[KLOL506]

I mean the debris was still moving weird even under the assumption the planet has weirdly high gravity.

Either way I don't think it's a bad end to use for a calc. If it's better than what we currently have we can always good with a more flexible "X, likely 4-C" route anyways.

Unfortunately it wasn't long after we found out that using the boat to find the size was... well... inconsistent. Because the damn asteroid keeps changing sizes

To the point where Thor and co. were not even visible anymore even when zooming in close to the surface. Which sucks.

Asteroid is the last thing I'd want to measure at this point.

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

Would you have to use M = gr^2/G for mass? M = Mass in kilograms, g = gravitational acceleration, r = radius from core in meters, and G = universal gravitational constant.

idk

 

[RoTt35]

Though given there's plans to upgrade the Celestials since they also create supergiant stars, the tier could be High 4-C

And 4-B if we use neutron stars

 

[KLOL506]

And 4-B if we use neutron stars

Unlikely that we'd use neutron stars, the visuals just fly against it.

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

Also can't neutron stars form from normal stars? It's possible that a celestial never made one of those straight up and they formed naturally

 

[RoTt35]

Also can't neutron stars form from normal stars? It's possible that a celestial never made one of those straight up and they formed naturally

That's true, ignore what I said

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Unlikely that we'd use neutron stars, the visuals just fly against it.

That would be a nonissue. The problem is that neutron stars aren't created, they're the collapsed cores of supergiant stars, so we don't know if Celestials can create them

 

[KLOL506]

That would be a nonissue. The problem is that neutron stars aren't created, they're the collapsed cores of supergiant stars, so we don't know if Celestials can create them

That's kind of the reason why the Celestials wouldn't bother creating already-dead stars to begin with.

 

[Qawsedf234]

idk

I'm only asking because the asteroid has normal Earth gravity acceleration, which means it must be far denser than just using volume to achieve that gravity.

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

I'm only asking because the asteroid has normal Earth gravity acceleration, which means it must be far denser than just using volume to achieve that gravity.

That's true, although isn't it possible that the acceleration could have just been something the creators of the film overlooked?

 

[ParkerKent007]

Based on your last comment on that thread I believed that you had given up on the purpose of the CRT. If you still have more to say I can reopen it, even if it's just as a last response since that's proper debate courtesy.

Headcanon or variation of that word was only used three times in thqt thread and only twice if you don't Include quotation boxes. Of those two instances you said it once and I said that the subject you called headcanon was just canon material according to WoG.


I said that the feat doesn't match up with what you're suggesting. The Bifrost doesn't operate like a real wormhole, the MCU has canon static wormhole positions and the object it's based on stabilizes quantum tunneling to open a portal.


I'm the only one who addressed it and I never said headcanon. I did call it an outlier because claiming Thor is universal is indeed an outlier.

But for the plot the Reality Stone was going to manipulate and change reality. It's not an AP feat you can scale to anyone.


This was addressed with in-universe material. The power stone's power is dependent on target size. The Neutron Star Thor withstood was also an ancient one with far less heat than a young Neutron Star.

The gravity aspect has been tried on a couple upgrade threads but it's hard to get anywhere when the scene rather consistently breaks physics.


The numbers you gave were bare minimum solar system busting and at the maximum universal. If you were asking for a 4-C upgrade you used possibly the worst examples for that upgrade (besides Zeus).

First off you posted a response critiquing my final post on my original star-level MCU Thor calc thread then locked it, instead of just locking it after my final post, so in effect you allowed yourself to get the last word. I also did not name or tag anyone when I posted here after that, because I did not want to make it personal. My reason for posting on this L&T Spoilers thread was about concerns with the internal rules for calc logic of VS Battles. Apologies if anyone here felt attacked since that was very much not my goal.

But it seems to me that VS Battles saying I'm wrong to use NASA data on the power needed for Einstein-Rosen Bridge wormholes when calculating the Bifrost does amount to me indulging in "headcanon." But if you prefer "wank" or some other term then so be it. Either way, I do believe that it is illogical for VS Battles to ignore actual real world science and onscreen statements that the MCU movies provide concerning their characters. I also think it is illogical to do so in the face of multiple feats across multiple movies, for the same character.

The first and last Thor movie explicitly define the Bifrost as an Einstein-Rosen Bridge wormhole, and NASA explicitly defines that as star-level in power. Even stronger, NASA's definition of an ERB wormhole involves black holes, and NASA states that black holes can cause stars to orbit them and suck in stars. People before me on forums have said those glowing white dots that move toward the hole in Thor 1 are stars. None of this seems like a leap to me, just strongly connected supporting evidence.

Thor 2 explicitly states that Malekith was going to use an Infinity Stone to destroy the universe, and that by the time Thor stopped him Malekith had less than a minute to do it before the Convergence ended. So universal destruction would have occurred very quickly. Whether through transmutation or straight up snuffing stars, the energy required for universal destruction is at least star level. NASA states that elemental transmutation is real and requires energy. Also, in the opening of Thor 2, Odin calls the Aether "an ancient force of infinite destruction." The explosion KOed Thor for 1 minute.

Thor 4 has Eitri explicitly state that Thor took "the full force of a star." Eitri is the most informed and reliable in-universe character on the power of Nidavellir. The movie also has Thor state that Nidavellir is a neutron star. NASA and the US Department of Energy state that the average neutron star is many times hotter than the sun, both surface temperatures and core temperatures. To ignore the onscreen statement of someone who operates the star, and ignore the real-world temperatures about that type of star, and ignore Thor survive the star, is ridiculous.

Look, I understand that VS Battles has an internal culture and policies that posters here will abide. I just think that it is worthwhile to take a step back every so often and re-evaluate whether that culture and those policies really make sense. This is the case in all aspects of life, whether political parties or companies or online communities. If this comment gets dismissed and attacked, so be it. But recognize that this website is publicly available and many viewers read your calcs with the hope they are based in reality and not groupthink.

One last point. That WoG creator you cited who says the comics are canon to the movies, Will Corona Pilgrim. He works on comics and interactive exhibits for Marvel but he does not have any writer, director, or producer credits for any MCU movies or Disney+ shows. Of course he would say the comics are canon. His own website shows the extent of his work for Marvel , as does his IMBD page.

 

[Qawsedf234]

That's true, although isn't it possible that the acceleration could have just been something the creators of the film overlooked?

Oh I'm certain you're right, I wa just wondering what the results would be if we used the formula to get a more depiction accurate value.

First off you posted a response critiquing my final post on my original star-level MCU Thor calc thread then locked it, instead of just locking it after my final post, so in effect you allowed yourself to get the last word.

I locked it as a misunderstanding then. I had thought you dropped the CRT completely after your last line, so apologies for misinterpreting your intentions. I have reopened it so you can get a response in.

But it seems to me that VS Battles saying I'm wrong to use NASA data on the power needed for Einstein-Rosen Bridge wormholes when calculating the Bifrost does amount to me indulging in "headcanon

On screen statements and visuals will always override IRL logic. It's why most black holes in fiction are not accepted as legitimate on this site, as they heavily break science. Not only does the Bifrost contradict what a IRL wormhole is, it's based on something that can keep itself open by stabilizing quantum tunneling effects.

People before me on forums have said those glowing white dots that move toward the hole in Thor 1 are stars

Visually this is contradicted in the scene itself.

snuffing stars, the energy required for universal destruction is at least star level

Well I guess technically, but this is such a massive understatement. It requires quadrillion of times more energy to destroy a galaxy compared to a star and even more to destroy the universe. The numbers you gave utterly eclipse the GBE of the Sun.

average neutron star

Key word. Average.

Neutron stars age and get colder as time goes on. The Neutron Star in the forge is called ancient multiple times and took over a minute to melt something with a canon melting point of 50,000 Kelvin.

Also the electromagnetic and solar radiation emitted from a Neutron Star can be calculated and its not sun busting.

To ignore the onscreen statement of someone who operates the star, and ignore the real-world temperatures about that type of star, and ignore Thor survive the star, is ridiculous.

We don't ignore it. It's mentioned on his profile and we have a calc of it. It's just not impressive with the canon low temperature which is why his AP is based on something else.

Of course he would say the comics are canon.

The key point here is that Feige/another MCU executive went through all the comics and decanonized multiple issues but let others remain. The fact they did that shows that it's canon material.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So with the other formula the mass is 1.4002923E+14 kilograms and with the 32 m/s figure it's a 7-B calc.

RIP.

If only the asteroid wasn't small af

 

[ParkerKent007]

Oh I'm certain you're right, I wa just wondering what the results would be if we used the formula to get a more depiction accurate value.


I locked it as a misunderstanding then. I had thought you dropped the CRT completely after your last line, so apologies for misinterpreting your intentions. I have reopened it so you can get a response in.


On screen statements and visuals will always override IRL logic. It's why most black holes in fiction are not accepted as legitimate on this site, as they heavily break science. Not only does the Bifrost contradict what a IRL wormhole is, it's based on something that can keep itself open by stabilizing quantum tunneling effects.


Visually this is contradicted in the scene itself.



Well I guess technically, but this is such a massive understatement. It requires quadrillion of times more energy to destroy a galaxy compared to a star and even more to destroy the universe. The numbers you gave utterly eclipse the GBE of the Sun.


Key word. Average.

Neutron stars age and get colder as time goes on. The Neutron Star in the forge is called ancient multiple times and took over a minute to melt something with a canon melting point of 50,000 Kelvin.

Also the electromagnetic and solar radiation emitted from a Neutron Star can be calculated and its not sun busting.


We don't ignore it. It's mentioned on his profile and we have a calc of it. It's just not impressive with the canon low temperature which is why his AP is based on something else.


The key point here is that Feige/another MCU executive went through all the comics and decanonized multiple issues but let others remain. The fact they did that shows that it's canon material.

I think I get where you're coming from. I just find it odd that part of VS Battles reasoning is "on screen statements and visuals will always override IRL logic" yet the very "on screen statements and visuals" of Thor 2 feat preventing universal destruction is rejected because of "IRL logic." That, to me, seems contradictory. The stakes are literally stated on screen 3 times, by 3 different characters, and we literally see the Aether flowing into different galaxies at the climax. Furthermore, if the Thor 2 feat is ever accepted, it establishes Thor as being capable of tanking a star-level Bifrost explosion in Thor 1. Yet, again, the Thor 2 feat is rejected due to what seems to be contradictory reasoning against what I'm being told here.

 

[Qawsedf234]

of Thor 2 feat preventing universal destruction

Because its not universal destruction. The Dark Elfs were going to transform the universe to be darkness using a special event and the reality stone at the fulcrum point. Thor also didn't destroy the stone, but just break apart the crystal housing. It reformed right after.

star-level Bifrost explosion in Thor 1

In no situation is this star level. Either its a non-feat, a Tier 7 feat or a 4-B feat by your own sources. At no point would it ever be 4-C.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Just curious but has anyone calced the moon feat while accounting for its earth like gravity?