Master Hand and Tabuu downgrades

[TheNarwhalKing]

I just read Master Hands brawl trophy and at most it say's Master Hand has a secret hidden power, but nothing really that implies that he holds back.

 

[Everything12]

I liked to point out that the Master Hands that Galeem are controlling all explode when defeated except one which is instead stated in the game to have been freed from Galeem's control and then helps you fight against Galeem. So their likely copies made by Galeem with only one being original

 

[QuasiYuri]

except one which is instead stated in the game to have been freed from Galeem's control and then helps you fight against Galeem.

Have you a video or screen of this?

 

[Everything12]

https://youtu.be/39MKuEn6f14?t=46162 and Crazy Hand's is at https://youtu.be/39MKuEn6f14?t=47170

 

[Dominodalek]

except one which is instead stated in the game to have been freed from Galeem's control and then helps you fight against Galeem.

Have you a video or screen of this?

https://youtu.be/ys4YIaNDBfU?t=663 - The first Master Hand is defeated, and explodes. (There are two fake Master Hands and four fake Crazy Hands fought total, which all explode after defeat)

https://youtu.be/ys4YIaNDBfU?t=2206 - The real Master Hand is defeated, and broken out of Galeem's control.

https://youtu.be/ys4YIaNDBfU?t=2378 - The real Crazy Hand is defeated, and broken out of Dharkon's control.

https://youtu.be/ys4YIaNDBfU?t=2408 - Master Hand and Crazy Hand open a rift to Galeem and Dharkon. Master Hand enters and, in a section where Master Hand temporarily becomes playable, defeats fifty of the pair's cloned fighters.

 

[Dark649]

I will be neutral about this.

 

[TriforcePower1]

I'm not an expert, but what I understood so far of the Smash lore is:

Child has toys, and he imagines his hand giving life to them and even possibly creating the world of trophies separated from the "real world" (as MH's description says). After a while his left hand joins as well, but who cares?

Then, in Brawl, someone manages to subdue and defeat MH. This is just speculatio Tabuu may just be the child's father who wanted him to stop playing in the wonderful world of trophy, the childhood, destroying it and slowly transforming it into the Subspace, a desolate universe which represents adulthood, forcing the kid to throw away his toys, represented as MH being controlled by Tabuu Okay, what drug did I take to write this thing?. The point is, Tabuu can very well just be an another person from the real world.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Assalt. Stop taking everything separately like they aren't interrelated with the same character. It's clear cut if you stop treating these as individual points. If everything had to be as concrete as you want, we'd have no 1-As.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Well, way less 1-As, but ye

 

[Warren_Valion]

Where does all this information come from?

Is it the trophy descriptions? If so, then shouldn't they be disregarded in the same manner that databook descriptions are disregarded when they contradict the source.

In this case, every character in the roster being able to defeat the supposed "God" of the world, in every game.

And in the World of Light trailer, Marth said that they need to each defeat about ten, implying that he believed them capable of such a feat.

Master Hand doesn't seem to be this "absolute" creator or anything, and if he was in a previous installment, then he may have been retconned.

 

[Dark649]

And in the World of Light trailer, Marth said that they need to each defeat about ten, implying that he believed them capable of such a feat.

Not in the japonese version where he says Do you think we can take about ten each?, implying he is not sure about it.

 

[PaChi2]

Okay, what drug did I take to write this thing?.

I would also like to know ovo

 

[Everything12]

I would also like to know ovo

Probably Game Theory I remember they had an episode like that, I dread what stuff he will come up for with the Ultimate theory he has next week, though it hard to think of anything he can do with Galeem and Dharkon considering they completely revolve around a stereotypical battle of Light/Order and Dark/Chaos which wouldn't be a theory considering they wear it on their sleeves.

 

[Eficiente]

I would appreciate no more derailing for now. Thanks.

 

[Read_this_post]

Even if that lore statement about the master hand viewing the fighterz as toys is true, it really just sounds metaphorical more than anything. Viewing individual 3D beings as toys is very different from viewing them as lower dimensional/actual fiction. And on top of that, it would be totally contradictory if he viewed everything in smash as fiction or as his playground and yet he can be hurt and beaten by said beings. Plus viewing 3D beings as actual fiction would only be high universal.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Cal

Saying "we are beyond all spatial dimensions" is different than "I am the ruler of this world," when the latter means zilch without a feat. Honestly I don't know why you even mention 1-A since I don't mean there can't be statements, they just have to be statements that make sense and aren't hyperbole/mean nothing.

Also, no, it is not obvious/clear cut even if you take those statements at face value, and you constantly asserting such doesn't make it any more true from my perspective.

 

[Zensum]

I haven't played World of Light, but Galeem at full power absolutely seems to be Galaxy and MFTL. I don't know how the Smashers beat him or if he loses power/assumes a different form, but galaxy is more reasonable than Universe+ considering several Smashers in their native games are stellar/cosmic.

The Smashers do beat Galeem, but they never fight Galeem at full power. The context being that Galeem needed to absorb hundreds of Master Hands to pull off that galaxy wipe and he never uses that move again, especially not in your actual fight against him.

They do end up beating Galeem even though Galeem is powerful enough to subdue and control hundreds of Master Hands at once. I'd also like to point out that the fact that hundreds of Master Hands exist simultaneously contradicts him being a singular universe creator.

 

[Eficiente]

Here's Galeem's profile, look the "Feats" section. The game says universe, that's what he crushed/consumed.

I had to put him those stats, but I still disagree with them.

 

[QuasiYuri]

They do end up beating Galeem even though Galeem is powerful enough to subdue and control hundreds of Master Hands at once. I'd also like to point out that the fact that hundreds of Master Hands exist simultaneously contradicts him being a singular universe creator.

Their is only one true MH and CH in World of Light, like Domino shown.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

And Galeem ia above him and his best feat is probably galactic.

 

[Eficiente]

Here's Galeem's profile, look the "Feats" section. The game says universe, that's what he crushed/consumed.

 

[Everything12]

https://youtu.be/ys4YIaNDBfU?t=663 - The first Master Hand is defeated, and explodes. (There are two fake Master Hands and four fake Crazy Hands fought total, which all explode after defeat)

https://youtu.be/ys4YIaNDBfU?t=2206 - The real Master Hand is defeated, and broken out of Galeem's control.

https://youtu.be/ys4YIaNDBfU?t=2378 - The real Crazy Hand is defeated, and broken out of Dharkon's control.

https://youtu.be/ys4YIaNDBfU?t=2408 - Master Hand and Crazy Hand open a rift to Galeem and Dharkon. Master Hand enters and, in a section where Master Hand temporarily becomes playable, defeats fifty of the pair's cloned fighters.

@Eficiente

I have to point this out because of how his profile mentions he doesn't directly control Master Hand, also I think all but the original Master Hand are probably clones and should be mentioned in duplication.

 

[Eficiente]

Ok cool, fixing that.

 

[Zensum]

Their is only one true MH and CH in World of Light, like Domino shown.

Nothing ever says that there's only one true Master/Crazy Hand, that's just an assumption based on the fact that you only fight one in game. X

We even see there's three extra Crazy Hands in the cutscene right after the Master/Crazy boss fight.

 

[Everything12]

Nothing ever says that there's only one true Master/Crazy Hand, that's just an assumption based on the fact that you only fight one in game. X

We even see there's three extra Crazy Hands in the cutscene right after the Master/Crazy boss fight.

Those are obviously more of the fake Crazy Hands Dharkon makes considering how they working for it despite the original siding against it and just freeing the originals wouldn't just cause all of their copies to just destroy themselves.

 

[Zensum]

Those are obviously more of the fake Crazy Hands Dharkon makes considering how they working for it despite the original siding against it

You free the Master and Crazy Hands that work against Dharkon/Galeem. There's no contradiction here.

just freeing the originals wouldn't just cause all of their copies to just destroy themselves.

They don't destroy themselves. Dharkon and Galeem destroy them all while fighting each other. Again, no contradiction.

 

[ExodusNexus]

Don't know if this was discussed, but in the Smash Direct Sakurai mentioned Master Hand being the thing setting everything into motion

 

[Eficiente]

Point out the Low 2-C part we all miss.

 

[ExodusNexus]

Never mind. It was just that all the world is the imagination of master hand

 

[Eficiente]

This goes for everyone; Show the evidence, expect others to blindly believe you is wrong, so is have many users looking for the evidence themselves because you were too lazy to back up your claims.

 

[Numbersguy]

I don't care. I want the evidence, for everything. I will add it to the profiles, which I'm pretty sure are just lying in many things.

Super Smash Bros N64 Opening-0



You want to get banned? That is how people get banned

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Never mind. It was just that all the world is the imagination of master hand

^

This is literally a Low 2-C feat.

 

[Eficiente]

@Numbersguy Ignoring how the profiles are indeed lying in many things and how that's not at all how people get banned, that is not evidence of universal creation.

 

[Eficiente]

Never mind. It was just that all the world is the imagination of master hand

^

This is literally a Low 2-C feat.

If it weren't contradicted, that is.

 

[Numbersguy]

@Numbersguy Ignoring how the profiles are indeed lying in many things and how that's not at all how people get banned, that is not evidence of universal creation.

I showed you evidence. It took me 2 minutes.

Plus, when Master Hand dies in the game, the character turns into a trophy and the screen turns white and everything seem to fall apart (In Melee they show up in a normal room and so in 64, and as you can see in the intro, it is a normal room). In Subspace Emissary, when a character "dies" they turn into trophies, that means Master Hand by dying caused the universe and its logic to fall apart

 

[TriforcePower1]

By what exactly? Subspace is separated from the world of trophies.

 

[Numbersguy]

Subspace Emissary is the story mode of Super Smash Bros Brawl, read

 

[Eficiente]

MH just animates a small stage, not the already existing universe.

>"Plus, when Master Hand dies in the game, the character turns into a trophy and the screen turns white and everything seem to fall apart (In Melee they show up in a normal room and so in 64, and as you can see in the intro, it is a normal room)"

Not as if this were Low 2-C. Or consistent, even if it were.

>"In Subspace Emissary, when a character "dies" they turn into trophies, that means Master Hand by dying caused the universe and its logic to fall apart"

This is much a massive jump of assumptions.

 

[Numbersguy]

MH just animates a small stage, not the already existing universe.

The toys had no life before MH showed up, and no the entire Smash Bros universe exists at the same time... your argument falls apart on the spot. Now let's use your own logic, how do you think Subspace Emissary happened? Stop using this fallacy, it makes you look bad

Not as if this were Low 2-C. Or consistent, even if it were.

The trophy states it, the intro shows it, the ending of classic mode implies it.

This is much a massive jump of assumptions.

Ad hominem as its finest.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

ohboi.