Master Hand and Tabuu downgrades

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

>Legitimately arguing that "world destruction" is 9-A

 

[Wokistan]

People have referred to stuff like their newborns as "their world". It can also refer to abstract things, like mental states.

10-C world destruction but it's also conceptual.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Seriously though that's one of the lowest interpretation possible of this statement. Unreasonably low at that, given how much assumptions are needed in this context. It's not a legit rebuttal.

 

[SomebodyData]

Tier 6 Smash characters sound legit. Not sure about tier 2 or 3 via spirit amp.

Btw, I've been thinking, given how Smash seems to change rather considerably from the trophies to this entry, shouldn't a seperation based on key, or at least a note acknowleging this, be made?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Although...where was the Moon's High 6-A feat stated? Its melee trophy only says that "[...] it threatens to devour everything and everyone in a cataclysm of fire."

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I believe it was stated in the Smash 4 trophy for Majora's Mask.

"[...] In a separate dimension called Termina, it tries to cause the end of the world by making the moon fall from the sky. [...]"

But seriously occam's razor dictates that "ending the world" in this case is definitely surface busting. Because it's a freaking moon being slammed into the Earth. We know scientifically that the planet's going to get fricked up really bad if that happened.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well that's better, I guess.

@SD Not really...? It's just statements. No reasons to treat it separately.

 

[Jinsye]

I mean

wouldn't a Moon being slammed into earth generally indicate tier 5 ke

 

[SomebodyData]

@Saik, weren't you the one who said the trophies part of the smash canon is 'inconsistent at best', espically now with Ultimate? Maybe I'm misremembering though.

 

[Missy0124]

I believe it was stated in the Smash 4 trophy for Majora's Mask."[...] In a separate dimension called Termina, it tries to cause the end of the world by making the moon fall from the sky. [...]"
But seriously occam's razor dictates that "ending the world" in this case is definitely surface busting. Because it's a freaking moon being slammed into the Earth. We know scientifically that the planet's going to get fricked up really bad if that happened.

i generally do argee with 5-A on smash majora's mask's moon and just wondering how did this turn into majora's mask debate it was about Tabuu and Master Hand Downgrades

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I was saying that the whole idea of the characters being literal toys being literally played by a kid was inconsistent. The whole thing about turning into trophies, however, works well enough even without this narrative.

@Everyone Y'all realize Majora's Moon is small af, right? No KE would make it Tier 5. This statement is all we have.

 

[Missy0124]

I was saying that the whole idea of the characters being literal toys being literally played by a kid was inconsistent. The whole thing about turning into trophies, however, works well enough even without this narrative.
@Everyone Y'all realize Majora's Moon is small af, right? No KE would make it Tier 5. This statement is all we have.

this is a different canon so size could be different from the main zelda timeline where it is the size of a tower to town

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Despite the fact that the moon was portrayed nearly exactly the same size as it is in LoZ in both of its Smash appearances.

 

[Missy0124]

Despite the fact that the moon was portrayed nearly exactly the same size as it is in LoZ in both of its Smash appearances.

in the great bay stage and it's assist tropies which one is unscaleable due to vision and the other is buliding sized at least due it being the size of stages which alot of them are at least buliding in size and the one from zelda being town level in size

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Yeah the moon was building sized in Majora's Mask too.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yeah, Majora's moon is way smaller than our own moon (except it seems to have a pocket reality on the inside, but this is only referring to the exterior).

It's not going to reasonably destroy the world via its own KE with the speed it was falling at.

We just know it can destroy the world because the game repeatedly states that it can/does if you fail to stop it.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

i generally do argee with 5-A on smash majora's mask's moon and just wondering how did this turn into majora's mask debate it was about Tabuu and Master Hand Downgrades

Because it's been derailed a ton and the idea of making profiles for each smasher got brought up again.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

So what's the verdict on Master Hand, Crazy Hand, Tabuu, Galeem, and Dharkon's rankings?

 

[Missy0124]

So what's the verdict on Master Hand, Crazy Hand, Tabuu, Galeem, and Dharkon's rankings?

master hand would universe level for different reasons including the scene where forms multiple dimensions around himself and gallem soul destroying everyone which both of these are at planet with one having dimensions inside the planet sized orbs or his would be alot higher than him but by scaling it should put gallem

 

[Teengohanrocks]

Master Hand and Crazy Hand: 3-B to 3-A

Tabuu: 3-A

Galeem and Dharkon: High 3-A

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We don't just ratings base on that. 3-A and Low 2-C have an infinity gap, and High 3-A being for infinite 3-D scale. We're questioning Master Hand's Low 2-C feat which would scale to all god tiers, but Galeem and Dharkon would be 3-A if it's not legit. I still think Tier 2 is legit though.

 

[Missy0124]

Master Hand and Crazy Hand: 3-B to 3-A
Tabuu: 3-A

Galeem and Dharkon: High 3-A

seems about right from my point of view but master hand is never shown to do much and he created stages with galaxys so i guess mutigalaxy and fighters like kirby are shown to be at large buliding and the fact it supports scaling despite not being desctive feat it could work as a placement until we have solid evidence shown or a good enough calc given for god tiers for scaling purposes

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I'm still very much against such high tiered Smash characters. Galeem's feat is 3-A, but it is also only done after absorbing the numerous Master Hand clones and successfully kills the Smashers, spirit boosted or otherwise.

I am against MH being any cosmic tier, since it being the "spirit of creation" is too vague and it gets stomped by pretty much every entity it fights, including Tabuu and Galeem.

 

[The_Smashor]

Galeem did the feat casually without absorbing anything in one of the endings.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

We never see what he does in the ending where Dharkon is wounded by the Smashers. Considering it's the exact same attack as before, I think he probably did Absorb, just off-screen. It would make sense, since Galeem = Dharkon without boosts and the Smashers > Galeem/Dharkon without boosts.

 

[The_Smashor]

Well, we don't see it, so we can't assume that's the case. Also, MH created the stages. I feel like that can easily be a supporting feat since just look at Smash 4's and Ultimate's Final Destinations.

 

[Jaakuace44]

If MH created the stages, then let's take a look at Brawl's Final Destination real quick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52i7DhGWO8Q

What would you guys say creating a space of this size would qualify for?

 

[Missy0124]

@Jaakuace44

as for master hand creating galaxy level creations it would not be a attack potency thing since creation and destction are two different things and the power of him would be unknown otherwise

 

[The_Smashor]

Tell that to literally every character with creation feats on this wiki. Also Crazy Hand can scale to MH's creation due to being his destructive counterpart. And since their equals...

 

[Missy0124]

@The Smashor

Argeed

 

[Teengohanrocks]

Master Hand is potentially 3-A, if he created Brawl's Final Destination and the rest of the stages. As for Galeem and Dharkon, the only argument I could see for them being Low 2-C is that they turned Arceus, Palkia, Dialga and Giratina all into spirits. But I think that's just PIS.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Bump

 

[Assaltwaffle]

This is still a big no for me. Nothing in Brawl's FD is 3-A, and the CT of Smash are featless.

Galeem is only 3-A at max power and that attack completely wrecks even spirit-booster Smashers. It's inconsistent for them to be that strong normally.

 

[Jaakuace44]

At best, Master Hand is 3-B based on creation feats.

Galeem might be 3-A or High 3-A.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

So the God tiers are gonna get downgraded to 3-B or 3-A?

 

[Eficiente]

This will probably be continued in another thread, which is fine, however I find absolutely no reason to not update the profiles with the information that isn't discussed anymore and was accepted by many. I will take care of making the next thread and summarize the points we are discussing in this one.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Link it here when you're done.

 

[Eficiente]

Bump. It will still take some time for this thread to reach 500 comments.

Can someone please answer my petition?

 

[The_Smashor]

Here's what I think. Master Hand should be At least 3-B for creation feats, possibly High 3-A/Low 2-C for possible higher dimentional feats (His trophy descriptions outright state that he's the link between the Smash Bros universe and the "Real World". No clue what tier being 3.5D is, I assume it's in the High 3-A to Low 2-C level)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

3.5 Dimensional isn't even a thing.