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Alright, now that act 1 has been concluded, let's go straight to act 2!
INTERMISSION
Seems like our attention is being redirected to another matter at the moment: Cosmology reviewing and upgrading.
With the new revisions and standards regarding qualitative superiority, homestuck, a verse that has a lot of this, needs to be adapted to them, and also i want to make the cosmology clear here, so let's summarize it.
In homestuck, we have 4 types of universes:
The normal universes, which are usually referred to as timelines, both terms are in fact distinct in the story. They can also becalled Instances.
The Genesis Frogs, which are always referred to as universes, but include infinite timelines inside of them, they are called universes because all of those timelines follow fundamental events and aspects that make them similar in many ways, such as alternia existing or earth existing.
Dream Bubbles, which are afterlifes blown by the horrorterrors, made of memory stuff and being made to serve as stable realities for ghosts in the furthest ring. While their size is never directly said, we have seen them possessing cosmic skies, being able to recreate the universe that bec noir destroyed inside of the expanded Skaia pond and John here talks about Lord English blowing up universes, given that his rampage was seeking and blowing up dream bubbles, than John is most likely calling them universes, so they should be at least as large as Genesis Frogs.
and now, for the final type, we have the "Jenga Tower of Creators", essentially, there are "meta-rivers" (the metaphorical part is just that they aren't literal rivers) representing fate and story of others (as well as causality in general), with those higher in the chain being completely unaffected by those things from lower universes, and yet, having their own fates, story and causality being controlled by the creators in the higher worlds, following the same logic on and on, so basically each layer has laws and narratives on them.
Size wise, they are stated to be infinitely larger and vaster than lower rivers, with the "planets" said rivers reside on (which, given the context, probably means the universe/plane of existence said creator is on) is swept by the next higher river, viewing them as mere pixels and being controlled like chessboards. Alongside that, there are infinite levels of meta-rivers.
So to summarize, there is a chain of universes that are considered infinitely larger and vaster than each other, being unbound by the fate, causality and story of lowers worlds and controlling them freely like pieces in a chessboard, with the process of going up to them being referred to as "transcedence" and leaving all of them letting you reach the "full light of reality".
they should be considered a qualitative superiority over the baseline universe, which means they see infinite timelines as effectively fiction, since the first layer already does that, that means the the very first level of the hierarchy would be 1-A, i'm not sure if we handle having the same transcendence process as meta-qualitative superiority, or just another layer to it.
going by the latter, this makes the full Jenga Tower of Creators 1-A+
Now we move on to the next part of reality: The Furthest Ring, home to the Horrorterrors.
It is a infinite void that exists outside of the universes and is completely untouched by their spacetime, being considered the default reality and the most fundamental layer of the cosmology, with universes, dream bubbles and sessions all being short lived anomalous dream-like irregularities existing as bubbles blown by the horroterrors.
It is also the canvas where the aspects themselves exist on, with the aspects being the source of all concepts, being effectively unseparable due to how mixed and intertwined they are there, to the point where space and time are unreliable and trying to move in one leads you to randomly moving through the other, and considering that it is untouched by the spacetime of universes, them the spacetime there must come from the aspects themselves, and those would be higher levels of space and time due to existing indepedently from the universes that already have them.
So the Furthest Ring is considered to be infinitely larger than any universe, untouched by their spacetime, having the very concepts of space and time, which aren't confined to the normal reality the characters exist on, spread over it's fabric, and being more fundamental, important and "real" than the universes, to the point where they are considered "dream-like anomalies" that briefly exist compared to the lifespan of the Horrorterrors.
i think this is enough for it to be considered qualitative superiority? infinitely larger, existentially superior, unlimited to realities' aspects, comparing them to dreams, etc.
i think, even if it's not full on qualitative superiority, would it be superior enough to warrant High 1-A.
Paradox space's nature is harder to explain due to it being very "subtle" in many aspects thanks to it's role in the story, as in, the characters rarely talk about what paradox space is, they mostly rant about paradox space sucking due to fate and rules being unfair and apathic, fortunately we have bits of information scaterred around, as well as implications.
the main thing to remember is that paradox space is mean't to be the entire the setting of the story, containing everything in existence, being reality itself and the multiverse.
However, there are implications that the events of the comic, including Lord English's entire existence, is one big loop mantained by paradox space, and that said loop is "stitched to the fabric of cyclical reality", as well as being part of the "cyclical, fatalistic prison of the story", and John's freedom from the story is what allows him to fight back against said inevitability.
So it seems like Paradox Space is in fact, a sort of "timeline" for everything inside of it at bare minimun, despite the concept of time, which includes fate and causality, and Doom, which deals with inevitability and rules, being inside of the Furthest Ring which is contained by it, and it's destruction being part of said loop given that Paradox Space still exists after the furthest ring is gone, and the meteor that exists on Earth C being the one Caliborn lives on, and given the nature of said loop and inevitability being tied to the story, it could also be a qualitative superiority, as it would be a loop of the narrative itself.
so Paradox Space is superior to the Furthest Ring as either a hypertimeline (one that's beyond the concept of time which is itself beyond infinite levels of higher fate, causality and stories), or straight up sees it as fiction.
so i'm pretty sure it means it scales 1 layer into High 1-A.
Currently those that would scale to this new Tiering would go like this:
Retcon John Egbert, Davepetasprite^2, Weakened Lord English and Noble Cycle of Horrorterrors = Furthest Ring (Baseline High 1-A)
Andrew Hussie, Transcedent Feferi Peixes and MSPAReader = Paradox Space (1 Layer above High 1-A)
Lord English, Ultimate selves (Dirk, Rose and Dave), The Blackout (Retcon John Egbert and MSPAReader and Black Hole Alternate Calliope = R>F over Paradox Space (2 Layers above High 1-A)
First Guardian MSPAReader = apparentely he has R>F over Dirk and Calliope? in that case (3 layers above High 1-A)
i'll try making the rest of the cast scale to the second one in the fourth thread!
INTERMISSION
Seems like our attention is being redirected to another matter at the moment: Cosmology reviewing and upgrading.
With the new revisions and standards regarding qualitative superiority, homestuck, a verse that has a lot of this, needs to be adapted to them, and also i want to make the cosmology clear here, so let's summarize it.
Universes and Hierarchy
In homestuck, we have 4 types of universes:
The normal universes, which are usually referred to as timelines, both terms are in fact distinct in the story. They can also becalled Instances.
The Genesis Frogs, which are always referred to as universes, but include infinite timelines inside of them, they are called universes because all of those timelines follow fundamental events and aspects that make them similar in many ways, such as alternia existing or earth existing.
Dream Bubbles, which are afterlifes blown by the horrorterrors, made of memory stuff and being made to serve as stable realities for ghosts in the furthest ring. While their size is never directly said, we have seen them possessing cosmic skies, being able to recreate the universe that bec noir destroyed inside of the expanded Skaia pond and John here talks about Lord English blowing up universes, given that his rampage was seeking and blowing up dream bubbles, than John is most likely calling them universes, so they should be at least as large as Genesis Frogs.
and now, for the final type, we have the "Jenga Tower of Creators", essentially, there are "meta-rivers" (the metaphorical part is just that they aren't literal rivers) representing fate and story of others (as well as causality in general), with those higher in the chain being completely unaffected by those things from lower universes, and yet, having their own fates, story and causality being controlled by the creators in the higher worlds, following the same logic on and on, so basically each layer has laws and narratives on them.
Size wise, they are stated to be infinitely larger and vaster than lower rivers, with the "planets" said rivers reside on (which, given the context, probably means the universe/plane of existence said creator is on) is swept by the next higher river, viewing them as mere pixels and being controlled like chessboards. Alongside that, there are infinite levels of meta-rivers.
So to summarize, there is a chain of universes that are considered infinitely larger and vaster than each other, being unbound by the fate, causality and story of lowers worlds and controlling them freely like pieces in a chessboard, with the process of going up to them being referred to as "transcedence" and leaving all of them letting you reach the "full light of reality".
they should be considered a qualitative superiority over the baseline universe, which means they see infinite timelines as effectively fiction, since the first layer already does that, that means the the very first level of the hierarchy would be 1-A, i'm not sure if we handle having the same transcendence process as meta-qualitative superiority, or just another layer to it.
going by the latter, this makes the full Jenga Tower of Creators 1-A+
Furthest Ring
Now we move on to the next part of reality: The Furthest Ring, home to the Horrorterrors.
It is a infinite void that exists outside of the universes and is completely untouched by their spacetime, being considered the default reality and the most fundamental layer of the cosmology, with universes, dream bubbles and sessions all being short lived anomalous dream-like irregularities existing as bubbles blown by the horroterrors.
It is also the canvas where the aspects themselves exist on, with the aspects being the source of all concepts, being effectively unseparable due to how mixed and intertwined they are there, to the point where space and time are unreliable and trying to move in one leads you to randomly moving through the other, and considering that it is untouched by the spacetime of universes, them the spacetime there must come from the aspects themselves, and those would be higher levels of space and time due to existing indepedently from the universes that already have them.
So the Furthest Ring is considered to be infinitely larger than any universe, untouched by their spacetime, having the very concepts of space and time, which aren't confined to the normal reality the characters exist on, spread over it's fabric, and being more fundamental, important and "real" than the universes, to the point where they are considered "dream-like anomalies" that briefly exist compared to the lifespan of the Horrorterrors.
i think this is enough for it to be considered qualitative superiority? infinitely larger, existentially superior, unlimited to realities' aspects, comparing them to dreams, etc.
i think, even if it's not full on qualitative superiority, would it be superior enough to warrant High 1-A.
Paradox Space
Paradox space's nature is harder to explain due to it being very "subtle" in many aspects thanks to it's role in the story, as in, the characters rarely talk about what paradox space is, they mostly rant about paradox space sucking due to fate and rules being unfair and apathic, fortunately we have bits of information scaterred around, as well as implications.
the main thing to remember is that paradox space is mean't to be the entire the setting of the story, containing everything in existence, being reality itself and the multiverse.
However, there are implications that the events of the comic, including Lord English's entire existence, is one big loop mantained by paradox space, and that said loop is "stitched to the fabric of cyclical reality", as well as being part of the "cyclical, fatalistic prison of the story", and John's freedom from the story is what allows him to fight back against said inevitability.
So it seems like Paradox Space is in fact, a sort of "timeline" for everything inside of it at bare minimun, despite the concept of time, which includes fate and causality, and Doom, which deals with inevitability and rules, being inside of the Furthest Ring which is contained by it, and it's destruction being part of said loop given that Paradox Space still exists after the furthest ring is gone, and the meteor that exists on Earth C being the one Caliborn lives on, and given the nature of said loop and inevitability being tied to the story, it could also be a qualitative superiority, as it would be a loop of the narrative itself.
so Paradox Space is superior to the Furthest Ring as either a hypertimeline (one that's beyond the concept of time which is itself beyond infinite levels of higher fate, causality and stories), or straight up sees it as fiction.
so i'm pretty sure it means it scales 1 layer into High 1-A.
Scaling
Currently those that would scale to this new Tiering would go like this:
Retcon John Egbert, Davepetasprite^2, Weakened Lord English and Noble Cycle of Horrorterrors = Furthest Ring (Baseline High 1-A)
Andrew Hussie, Transcedent Feferi Peixes and MSPAReader = Paradox Space (1 Layer above High 1-A)
Lord English, Ultimate selves (Dirk, Rose and Dave), The Blackout (Retcon John Egbert and MSPAReader and Black Hole Alternate Calliope = R>F over Paradox Space (2 Layers above High 1-A)
First Guardian MSPAReader = apparentely he has R>F over Dirk and Calliope? in that case (3 layers above High 1-A)
i'll try making the rest of the cast scale to the second one in the fourth thread!
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