MASSIVE Gravity Falls Upgrade

[Meliodas_On_Point_Yessir]

Not really we already discussed this.

His Low Godly Regeneration isnt regeneration but more like a reverse type 9 immortality

We have no proof he can regenerate without time and space

We have no proof Bills Nightmare Realm form could survive it. It was described as "pure energy" which would be destroyed during the collapse.

 

[Planck69]

1. Regeneration doesn't depend on time and space anymore as of High-Godly getting revised. You can regenerate from a 1-B multiversal collapse if you were 10-B. You'd only need like, Self Sustenance to survive after that.

2. It's still listed as regeneration from his 2-D non-corporeal form (he's even in the same location as his forming body) so you might have to tackle that first and get it accepted. Even then, it doesn't change my point.

3. It doesn't have to for the first reason.

 

[Planck69]

Honestly the rift stuff is a bit contradictory from a narrative perspective since it would lead to Bill being completely alone after a while, which heavily goes the against the entire reason for him getting a physical form in the first place, that being causing mayhem and amusing himself eternally. Which would be even worse than being trapped in the Nightmare Realm.

Of course, this has little to do with the thread, just my thoughts.

 

[Meliodas_On_Point_Yessir]

Yes thats why I think he can control the rift

 

[Meliodas_On_Point_Yessir]

1. Okay I didnt know that

2. He doesn't regenerate anything all he does is give himself a material body and transport his existing self into it. Point is that they are 2 seperate entities.

3. His 2D form can be assumed to be destroyed from the collapse. If the Nightmare Realm is gone Bills 2D form will simply die. Or when its destroyed he will go along with it not really any reason to assume he can survive it when hes stated to be "pure energy"

 

[Planck69]

2. Considering he could regenerate actual harm done to specific parts of it (as seen with the Quantum Destabilizer) as opposed to only being able to form full bodies when damaged, I'm more inclined to treat it as actual regeneration.

3. It's non-corporeal so we'd need proof of the collapse affecting him. His 2-D form isn't dependent on the existence of the Nightmare Realm and there's no reason to assume that. You'd need to prove the collapse can affect non-physical beings.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Not really we already discussed this.

His Low Godly Regeneration isnt regeneration but more like a reverse type 9 immortality

That's not what we discussed though. I showed he could regenerate in his 3-D form without the need for his nightmare/2-D form, I just said his 2-D form could also regenerate him so he could get a reverse type 9 via that. It is regeneration.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Exaclty. I tanked a BB-Gun bullet in the shoulder doesn't mean I'm 375 miles per hour and the AP level of that gun

BB pellet moving at that speed is 167.64 m/s. BB pellets range from .12 to .2 grams. We're looking at 2.24 joules here. So unless you're weak as shit, that was a pretty dumb analogy.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Actually kinetic energy formula is E = m * v ^ 2

Plugging the values you mentioned it'll be:

E = 0.12 * 167.64 ^ 2 = 3,372.380352 J, which is well into 9-C

 

[Planck69]

BB pellet moving at that speed is 167.64 m/s. BB pellets range from .12 to .2 grams. We're looking at 2.24 joules here. So unless you're weak as shit, that was a pretty dumb analogy.

That's some shoddy math

Edit: Nvm, took it in grams instead of kilograms. This is embarrasing AF

 

[StrymULTRA]

A small question: when was implied that Bill would tank the destruction of reality via regen? Most of the time we scale scenarios like this to the durability like with Dimentio, unless directly stated that they'd tank it with another way.

 

[ZeedKZ]

At least Universe level+ (Would likely have survived the destruction of the very fabric of existence, which is represented as an explosion by Time Baby)

Bill Cipher's durability is Low 2-C scaling to the destruction of the very fabric of existence, it's not right to change that just because he is getting bumped.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bill Cipher's durability is Low 2-C scaling to the destruction of the very fabric of existence, it's not right to change that just because he is getting bumped.

The very fabric of existence is argued being 2-A, next?

 

[ZeedKZ]

Yes.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Actually kinetic energy formula is E = m * v ^ 2

Plugging the values you mentioned it'll be:

E = 0.12 * 167.64 ^ 2 = 3,372.380352 J, which is well into 9-C

Erm, no, you accidentally input the mass in grams as kilograms, which inflated the results massively. I said bb pellets are .12-.20 grams that means the mass in kilograms ranges from 0.00012 to 0.0002.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Erm, no, you accidentally input the mass in grams as kilograms, which inflated the results massively. I said bb pellets are .12-.20 grams that means the mass in kilograms ranges from 0.00012 to 0.0002.

Right. My mistake. But in real life piercing damage are a thing (which hurts a lot since the bullets have a tiny surface area), so it's still not very good since fiction doesn't really acknowledge piercing damage

 

[Lightbuster30]

Right. My mistake. But in real life piercing damage are a thing (which hurts a lot since the bullets have a tiny surface area), so it's still not very good since fiction doesn't really acknowledge piercing damage

Exactly. Piercing just means the energy is focused onto a smaller point. It doesn't mean we can't punch as hard as a bullet, it just means the bullet will do massively more damage, and it has nothing to do with durability being comparable. It has nothing to do with not being able to punch harder than our own body's durability because a bullet isn't a punch.

 

[StrymULTRA]

What's the point of discussing this if both Bill's AP and Dura are argued to 2-A for their own reasons tho

 

[InfiniteDay]

^

 

[Planck69]

Well, physical AP is bunk but "via Rift" seems to be agreed upon. Though this would downgrade his Low 2-C physicals. What are his new stats?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well, physical AP is bunk but "via Rift" seems to be agreed upon. Though this would downgrade his Low 2-C physicals. What are his new stats?

2-A in both for now, but his striking strenght should be too, if Dimentio is for the same reason

 

[Planck69]

.....What?

OK. What are his actual AP justifications in a profile format? Because I'm getting a lot of conflicting resolutions in this thread.

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

.....What?

OK. What are his actual AP justifications in a profile format? Because I'm getting a lot of conflicting resolutions in this thread.

Sadistic sleuth has a sandbox linked somewhere in the second page

Here it is: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Sadistic_Sleuth/sandbox

 

[Planck69]

OK, seems pretty good, though I'm very iffy on 2-A durability. Speed being None also doesn't really make sense for his first key since a 2-D being still has axes to move across. Unknown across the board would be better IMO.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

On a side note, why doesn't Bill have Spatial/Space-Time Manipulation? He cleary states that he controls space, time, and matter.

 

[Planck69]

He showcases it too. That should be added.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Added that to my sandbox.

 

[Planck69]

OK, seems pretty good, though I'm very iffy on 2-A durability. Speed being None also doesn't really make sense for his first key since a 2-D being still has axes to move across. Unknown across the board would be better IMO.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

A small question: when was implied that Bill would tank the destruction of reality via regen? Most of the time we scale scenarios like this to the durability like with Dimentio, unless directly stated that they'd tank it with another way.

The fact that he has the regen? Dimentio exmaple is a false equivalence, he literally has no regeneration on his profile, Bill has a low godly feat which would explain away his reasoning for surviving.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

2-A in both for now, but his striking strenght should be too, if Dimentio is for the same reason

Why are you using Dimentio? He doesn't have regen and isn't scaled to a chain reaction feat, he literally is not a useable example.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Bill Cipher's durability is Low 2-C scaling to the destruction of the very fabric of existence, it's not right to change that just because he is getting bumped.

You're forgetting that he's getting 2-A via a chain reaction when that Low 2-C reasoning was assuming he physically was Low 2-C in AP.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Though why assume regen when nothing indicates a use of regen at all?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Giver give me an implication of Bill surviving the multiverse collapse via Regen

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Though why assume regen when nothing indicates a use of regen at all?

Though why assume tanking when nothing indicates him tanking it at all?

See the issue here? He's shown low godly feats, it's a chain reaction feat so we can't use newton's 3rd law here. Regen is a fine assumption based off of this.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Giver give me an implication of Bill surviving the multiverse collapse via Regen

Give me implication of him surviving via durability.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Give me implication of him surviving via durability.

Common sense

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Though why assume tanking when nothing indicates him tanking it at all?

See the issue here? He's shown low godly feats, it's a chain reaction feat so we can't use newton's 3rd law here. Regen is a fine assumption based off of this.

You need to prove postive claims. Having Low Godly regen doesn't mean durability isn't as thing. Nothing suggests he would've survived it due to regen and if you want to say he does, you'll need to prove it

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Give me implication of him surviving via durability.

Because usually surviving attacks are due to durability rather than regeneration, regardless of how powerful the regeneration is.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

I feel him surviving it via Regen makes more sense here honestly. We already agree that his AP can't be scaled that high without the rift, but it'd honestly be weird to imply he's a stone wall with infinitely higher durability when such a thing is practically never implied. Given his impressive Regeneration as it is, it would be better as an indicator because it uses already existing evidence versus just assuming he has the durability (when it's out of place).

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I feel him surviving it via Regen makes more sense here honestly. We already agree that his AP can't be scaled that high without the rift, but it'd honestly be weird to imply he's a stone wall with infinitely higher durability when such a thing is practically never implied. Given his impressive Regeneration as it is, it would be better as an indicator because it uses already existing evidence versus just assuming he has the durability (when it's out of place).

It's kind of assumed it's due to durability unless it's clearly been stated that the feat of surviving the multiversal collapse is due to his regen (which would make Bill Mid-Godly regen since the multiverse's destruction would also destroy the ghosts and other souls there)