XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,582
- 9,171
The first canonical encounter with a Symbiote Behemoth had it practically one-shot Base Peter to the point where he was unable to defend himself from the Symbiote Goons rushing him.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Marvel video game’s general discussion
- Thread starter The_one_you_least_expect
- Start date
- 3,781
- 4,081
Two things can be true at once in regards to Miles.
Miles’ bioelectricity can output more energy than natural lightning bolts and Miles can use natural lightning bolts to further amp his bio-electricity. Him using the lightning, multiple strikes in fact, to amp his own bio-electricity doesn’t mean that Miles’ electricity outputs less than lightning. It just means he’s using the lightning to further amplify himself.
This is especially since Sandman was literally surrounded by lightning the entire time and not a single bolt ever crystallized even a single part of him, but meanwhile Miles can crystallize entire chunks of his body with one shot.
Miles’ bioelectricity can output more energy than natural lightning bolts and Miles can use natural lightning bolts to further amp his bio-electricity. Him using the lightning, multiple strikes in fact, to amp his own bio-electricity doesn’t mean that Miles’ electricity outputs less than lightning. It just means he’s using the lightning to further amplify himself.
This is especially since Sandman was literally surrounded by lightning the entire time and not a single bolt ever crystallized even a single part of him, but meanwhile Miles can crystallize entire chunks of his body with one shot.
- 3,771
- 2,175
Playable Black Cat hopefully
- 7,271
- 2,232
I mean, Doc Ock is just normal human without his arms. Even his character file in the first game has no mention of superhuman strength or durability, and he's an old man with a disease. If he can scale to Spider-Man, literally any able-bodied human in the verse can. Wraith is a great example of this, literally a cop with martial arts and a gun taking hits from pre/post-symbiote Peter.
I'm not about to argue all day, scale away
I'm not about to argue all day, scale away
- 17,589
- 27,541
Bruh why are you acting brand new like genuinely, this quite literally isn't anything new and frankly go look at the verse's pages like genuinely because all of these goons scaling to Peter isn't anything new and is how the profiles have already been accepted as of all this time.
Doctor Octopus (Insomniac Games)
Otto Octavius, also known by his media nickname Doctor Octopus, is the main antagonist of Marvel's Spider-Man. A highly intelligent scientist, Otto co-founded the mega-corporation Oscorp with his close friend Norman Osborn. He left the company after Norman committed several safety and ethical...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Hell not even just this one Black Cat and Silver sable scale to high 8-C too but its now suddenly a problem when they get a higher rating also Peter was definitely holding back on wraith it ain't like the guy wants to kill her or was shown to be exhausted after fighting her, just scale wraith off her own 9-B to 9-A feats, hell Dock Ock physically trades blows with spidey with the arms yes but peter is punching him and not the arms and same deal we have that statement and we know Peter isn't trying to kill the man so just scale doc ock off his own physical feats which would have him be around 9-B physically without the arms.
Like seriously tho these have simple fixes but not once did ya have a problem having them scale through all the feats they had in the first game but now suddenly that they've got stuff to backscale with higher ratings its a problem...
Like any number of fictional comic series and their game and movie counterparts, the "normal humans" with actually 0 powers literally always have ratings ranging from 9-B to high 8-C with supersonic to High hypersonic speed feats and we accept it as so that's literally how the medium works, even taking rhe avengers game itself ALL of the regular depowered humans you can play as would be 9-A and Supersonic because they can all replicate the same 9-A feat and fight the same enemies
Last edited:
- 3,781
- 4,081
Y’all gotta remember that this is literally also a game.
Peter can’t one just shot cause he’s so much stronger than him physically because then there’d be no enjoyment to the people playing the game.
Like imagine in that scene of Peter and Otto both fighting on the side of the building. Peter just one taps him no issue. That just sucks the emotional impact right out of the scene.
Or like imagine you’re not allowed to use any of your venom attacks on just regular thugs when they’re committing crimes. Because Miles’ venom attacks are strong enough to stop the Rhino dead in his tracks which would realistically obliterate a regular guy.
It’s gameplay ya know, suspension of disbelief and all that.
Peter can’t one just shot cause he’s so much stronger than him physically because then there’d be no enjoyment to the people playing the game.
Like imagine in that scene of Peter and Otto both fighting on the side of the building. Peter just one taps him no issue. That just sucks the emotional impact right out of the scene.
Or like imagine you’re not allowed to use any of your venom attacks on just regular thugs when they’re committing crimes. Because Miles’ venom attacks are strong enough to stop the Rhino dead in his tracks which would realistically obliterate a regular guy.
It’s gameplay ya know, suspension of disbelief and all that.
- 17,589
- 27,541
Oh trust me I'm fully aware of this its part of why I find this kinda defense so contrived and like just whaa?
- 9,891
- 12,905
This is just disingenuous and I’m fairly certain you’re aware of that
Yes, in this fictional piece of media supposedly unaltered humans who have greater plot relevance don’t die instantly when getting hit by people who punch who can bust buildings. This isn’t a new concept
- 17,589
- 27,541
Also just so I can fully put this to rest of the whole wet sand thing because that's what I really find most disingenuous here par from the point you're trying to make about Ock and Wraith. I'll be providing links as well
There are 2 sources for this one which give 2 ends as far as this goes.
Regular sand as in quartz sand/silica sand/ beach sand has a water absorption rate of 8.69% meaning of the total water exposed to the sand 8.69% of that water is absorbed into the sand. Alternatively this second source here seems to suggest 2.5% to 3% of the total water exposed to the sand is what's absorbed into it.
Your average water tank or holds between 15000 gallons to 3,000,00 gallons. The one's dumped on Sandman are of the smaller variety so we'll go with the 15000 value
15000 gallons is 56,781kg now using the high end of 8.69% only 4934.2689kg of that is what's absorbed into the sand which would itself going off the blog would contain 2584561.2kg of sand
So you'd total out to 2589495.4689kg
With the wet sand portion only taking out
0.00190549431% of the total mass not nearly enough to make a solid difference in the conductivity of the electricity or a major differnce the amount of energy Miles's venom would have yielded
Gonna finish typing this out later, sent it early
There are 2 sources for this one which give 2 ends as far as this goes.
Regular sand as in quartz sand/silica sand/ beach sand has a water absorption rate of 8.69% meaning of the total water exposed to the sand 8.69% of that water is absorbed into the sand. Alternatively this second source here seems to suggest 2.5% to 3% of the total water exposed to the sand is what's absorbed into it.
Your average water tank or holds between 15000 gallons to 3,000,00 gallons. The one's dumped on Sandman are of the smaller variety so we'll go with the 15000 value
15000 gallons is 56,781kg now using the high end of 8.69% only 4934.2689kg of that is what's absorbed into the sand which would itself going off the blog would contain 2584561.2kg of sand
So you'd total out to 2589495.4689kg
With the wet sand portion only taking out
0.00190549431% of the total mass not nearly enough to make a solid difference in the conductivity of the electricity or a major differnce the amount of energy Miles's venom would have yielded
Gonna finish typing this out later, sent it early
Last edited:
- 7,271
- 2,232
I simply don't feel like typing paragraphs. Call it what you want, that is factually true since it has a basis in scaling.
- 7,271
- 2,232
It wouldn't even be 15,000 pounds, as the biggest water tank they were going to use was 10,000 pounds. Regardless, weight or absorption rates have nothing to do with what I said.
- 17,589
- 27,541
But it genuinely directly does tho because you made a point of how it made the electricity have a wider aoe (in turn being more potent) which I'm not refuting in what I said because that's factually true however this bit from above is to show that it didn't have nearly as much of an impact on the feat as you made it out to be as not even the majority of said water would be absorbed through the sand anyways to drastically change its conductivity and range.
I can also drop it as well though
- 7,271
- 2,232
I feel like all the Miles stuff got blown way out of context. Nobody is saying Miles or Li shouldn't scale from the Sandman feat, or that it's not legit. In fact, if you also take into consideration the vaporization of water in addition to the energy it takes to melt sand, it would probably be borderline Low 7-C by itself.
It's Peter automatically scaling directly to Miles (at least) from a fight two years prior in a separate game. If Peter had to fight the current Li whose shield deflects all physical attacks except for evolved venom, he would not be able to bypass it. Just as he couldn't harm Tombstone without giving him the counter-drug to disable his powers. The current reasoning is that the shield is a portion of Li's whole power, therefore since Peter beat Li in the past, he can probably do it again. The only way that scaling would work is if you have base Peter as greater than or equal to Miles with venom, and you agreed with my scaling previously in this thread that has Miles (venom) above Peter.
Last edited:
- 3,781
- 4,081
The current Li has been held in a cage without the ability to use his powers in any regard. By all means, Li from Spider-Man 1 should be stronger than Li from Spider-Man 2 if anything.
Especially since he was being driven off of his negative emotions then which feeds his powers.
Let’s also not forget that Peter fought and literally kicked through the giant demon figure he spawned all around himself while Miles didn’t fight such a thing. I think that’s just as if not more notable than a shield being spawned out of his powers.
- 7,271
- 2,232
When he defeated Li in their last fight, he kicked through the demon like it didn't exist, because it's non-corporeal. Also, the demon is what creates the shield in SM2.
I don't see why you're equating prison to automatically being weaker. Rhino stated that he was locked up for 6 years and stomped Peter even worse than the fight in the first game.
- 3,781
- 4,081
This seems pretty corporeal to me. In fact you bringing up the demon creating the shield just proves the point.
Martin doesn’t have to be weaker, he could be the same strength it’s fine, I’m just saying “if anything” because of a number of reasons, but there’s no evidence he got stronger is what’s being said. Peter fights Rhino under two different circumstances and environments. You can fight a person in one situation and win, and fight a person in another situation and lose.
- 7,271
- 2,232
Watch the rest of the video.
The evidence that he got stronger is taking venom hits from Miles and Kraven chanting on the sidelines for him to use his full power. Again, the whole counter-argument is contingent on base Peter being as strong or stronger than Miles with venom, which I can provide a laundry list of feats to disprove. His venom is rated entirely separate and higher from his base stats anyway. Otherwise, the only other argument here is, "well, Peter did it in the first game, so he should be able to do it again here." Peter hasn't beaten a single person in his rogue gallery without using the symbiote since the first game.
And in the first Rhino fight, you mainly beat him by using heavy construction equipment to break down his armor and pummeling him while he's stunned, which is almost identical to how Miles initially fights Rhino to break off his armor (which he also does with normal blows) at Roxxon. Peter never beat Rhino in his first fight - only contained him. Their fight in Miles Morales was a one-sided stomp in Rhino's favor. I don't see how the fights are dissimilar.
Last edited:
- 3,781
- 4,081
Yeah he kicks through it….that doesn’t make it non physical. Peter physically kicked through it, your argument is that the demon is non corporeal and not physically there to touch and I’m proving to you that the demon is actually physical. So this clip just proves the point that Peter physically kicked through the demon.
Thats not evidence that he got stronger, he could just be the same strength and they could just scale to Miles’ venom attacks, so that wouldn’t be evidence. The counter argument is the fact that Peter is fighting the exact same people that Miles is using his Venom attacks for.
You bring up the demon creating the shield for Martin Li against Miles’ venom attacks, but meanwhile Peter is fighting the actual demon itself, that’s what’s scalable here. Also “Peter’s not beaten a single person from his rogue gallery since the first game” is a really weird argument to make because the first game was about Spider-Man beating his rogue’s gallery, the second game was all about Venom and the symbiote suit, so I don’t see why Peter needs to beat one of his rogues gallery in the second game when he’s already done so in the first and the second game’s focus is about the symbiote suit.
Well one fight involved Peter being dragged through literal explosions and another fight involved turning the enemies against each other and containing them. So differing circumstances lead to differing results. Also Peter being able to damage Rhino who’s able to tank several Venom attacks further proves the point that Peter scales.
Miles with his Venom attacks undoubtedly stomps Rhino but that doesn’t stop Rhino from scaling to Miles’ Venom attacks.
- 7,271
- 2,232
incorporeal
not corporeal : having no material body or form
You think an energy construct isn't non-physical just because it can interact with other things? Your last point just restates exactly what I said.Coulda woulda shoulda. You provide me hypotheticals based on conjecture as an argument. Again, unless you can prove Peter is as strong as Miles with venom, there is no evidence Li has always been this strong.
-Kraven kills Peter
-Rhino stomps Peter
-Miles fights weakened symbiote suit Peter
-Miles one-shots a weakened Kraven
-Miles holds his own against Venom, while Peter was still fighting Venom while symbiote-enhanced
-Miles blows Sandman's arm off while Peter is literally incapable of inflicting harm
I don't see how he's "fighting the actual demon" when the only course of action you can take is dodging its attacks until it goes away. The demon has no evidence that it is the susanoo you portray it to be.
Elite red herring. It happened, and it isn't up for debate as to why it happened, nor does the out-of-universe why matter. Nobody said he needs to beat them, I said he hasn't won a fight against anybody who matters since the first game. So to assume he scales to somebody's unique powerset that is consistently shown above him since the first game is a stupid take in my opinion.
Miles also got dragged through the same initial massive explosion that Peter did. The explosions throughout the Roxxon building isn't what finished Peter off; you can literally see Rhino laying hands on him in the background while Miles is fighting off waves of thugs. I'll even link you to the exact moment you're referencing.
Damage is an extremely generous term. Peter was dropping multi-ton shipping equipment on his head, which did most of the work, then hitting him while he was already down. I don't see how he scales after getting stomped. I think we should revisit your original point before I waste more time doing basic fact-checks.
You said "Peter fights Rhino under two different circumstances and environments. You can fight a person in one situation and win, and fight a person in another situation and lose."
Peter never won his first fight, only contained him. Second fight he got stomped. This was your justification for Peter losing against Rhino. Your original point was that if anything, Li should be weaker because he was in prison. The whole point of bringing up Rhino was to prove that being locked up does not mean Peter automatically escapes getting his ass beat when they fight again. I proved that point.
His durability would scale, sure. But can you somehow prove that Rhino hits with as much power as venom to justify an AP change?
- 3,781
- 4,081
No what you’re stating is that Peter kicked through the demon “like it didn’t exist.” Like it was non-physical, but meanwhile the shield that Miles breaks through that is done by this very same demon is entirely physical. That is the claim that you made and that is the claim that you have yet to substantiate. You have not provided evidence that there is some arbitrary distinction between this manifested demon and the manifested shield, and the fact that Peter actively dodges this demon as he’s kicking through it just proves to the point that it’s something physically to interact with.
I did not, I provided you concrete proof that Peter is comparable with how showing against Li. Also that’s not how burden of proof works, you’re the one making the claim that Li got stronger, therefore it’s your burden of proof to prove that he got stronger. I don’t need to prove anything since you’re the one making the claim that Li got stronger.
The same Kraven that beat down Miles. Also Kraven is a new opponent to Spider-Man here so irrelevant.
After Peter has beaten Rhino before.
These two points become irrelevant thanks to the added “weakened” section of your quote.
And? This doesn’t prove Peter doesn’t scale, which is the claim you’re making.
Isn’t this the same Sandman that can harm Miles but literally struggled to hurt Peter?
He literally kicked through said demon. Also, you’re the one making the claim that the demon is this kind of intangible thing that doesn’t have durability to it or acts like it doesn’t exist, therefore it’s up to you to prove that claim. In every situation we see the demon in, we see it physically being there. Peter kicked through the demon the same way Miles punches through the shield, it’s up to you to prove that the demon isn’t actually there for Peter since you’re the one making that claim.
Thats not a red herring, I’m explaining why that point doesn’t matter. We assume he scales to somebody’s power set because the people that individual is fighting with that specific power set are the very same people that Spider-Man has fought and damaged and beaten against. Ergo this is a basic understanding of scaling in my opinion.
I never claimed that the explosions finished Peter off, but damage can accumulate and being dragged through several explosions is what we can certainly classify as “damage.” Rhino is a heavily armored tank, Spider-Man is not. Rhino can tank explosions better than he can, ergo, different circumstances lead to different results.
That’s still scalable, Peter can literally perform finishers on Rhino that we can see do damage in that fight. Also we have direct instances of Peter scaling to Rhino like for example Peter throwing Vulture at him, knocking him down. And Peter directly stopping a punch from Rhino. These are some pretty basic fact checks that you seem to be missing.
You can contain someone and win a fight against them, that’s not mutually exclusive. Peter directly fighting Rhino, knocking him down and doing damage to him and scorpion as well while being able to successfully contain the two, is winning the fight. I also never claimed that being in prison means Peter can escape losing, but your point is that Martin Li got stronger in his time in prison, which there is no evidence for. I also mentioned more reasons than just “being in prison” for why Martin Li would be weaker “if anything.” Like how Martin’s power feeds off of his negative emotions, which was fueling him in Spider-Man 1 but he’s largely mellowed in Spider-Man 2.
Uh yeah…he can harm Miles, whose durability scales to those 8-A+ values. Just how scaling works, since Miles’ durability scales to his venom attacks and Rhino is able to harm Miles, then that leaves Rhino’s AP being on the level as those venom attacks.
- 3,781
- 4,081
Venom profile Sandbox
vsbattles.fandom.com
Miles Morales (Insomniac) profile sandbox
vsbattles.fandom.com
Peter Parker (Insomniac) profile sandbox
vsbattles.fandom.com
Sorry guys for the long wait, very heavy schoolwork this month, I'm in the middle of working on Harry's profile creation while Peter and Miles' profiles are completed (or close to it if there are any other inputs). It's still gonna take a minute for me to finish Harry's profile, but I just wanna give an update on how the process for this CRT has been going.
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,582
- 9,171
There's a period where there should be a comma in Peter's speed section.Venom profile Sandbox
Miles Morales (Insomniac) profile sandbox
Peter Parker (Insomniac) profile sandbox
Sorry guys for the long wait, very heavy schoolwork this month, I'm in the middle of working on Harry's profile creation while Peter and Miles' profiles are completed (or close to it if there are any other inputs). It's still gonna take a minute for me to finish Harry's profile, but I just wanna give an update on how the process for this CRT has been going.
- 3,781
- 4,081
I’m crying at my failure
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,582
- 9,171
There's also a period where there should be a comma in the attack potency section as well.
- 11,829
- 8,623
When these revisions go through, would it be any way fair to put both insomniac Miles and Peter against Tasm (game) Peter? Like, giving the duo bloodlust, prior knowledge, optional equipment, etc.
- 3,781
- 4,081
Hopefully.
I got my own matches in mind. I’m planning on hopefully doing a Venom vs Chainsaw Man match once these revisions go through.
- 17,589
- 27,541
Could work and you Could have their combo finishers as team attacks
- 11,829
- 8,623
Yeah all I'm worried about is that AP gap. There's probably a way around it (or unless the gap is being raised from 5x to something idk whats going on with that thread)
- 17,589
- 27,541
Ah I misread In thought you were talking about a team profile
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,582
- 9,171
Do Duos qualify for Team Profiles? I know Trios do but I'm unsure about Duos.
- 17,589
- 27,541
It should their team up is notable enough
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,582
- 9,171
You could throw MJ and Miles' friend in there too probably.
- 9,891
- 12,905
How come Peter’s base durability is still Low 7-C???Venom profile Sandbox
Miles Morales (Insomniac) profile sandbox
Peter Parker (Insomniac) profile sandbox
Sorry guys for the long wait, very heavy schoolwork this month, I'm in the middle of working on Harry's profile creation while Peter and Miles' profiles are completed (or close to it if there are any other inputs). It's still gonna take a minute for me to finish Harry's profile, but I just wanna give an update on how the process for this CRT has been going.
- 3,781
- 4,081
I got that from tanking Sandman’s swings which are rated as low 7-C.
- 9,891
- 12,905
So…why isn’t Peter’s base AP at Low 7-C…? He fights/defeats/harms those who can harm himself all the time and yet he’s 8-A in base? This also extends to Miles
- 17,589
- 27,541
- 9,891
- 12,905
Okay, thanks for clearing that up.
- 3,781
- 4,081
Aight no problem, that’ll be an easy fix as soon as I get home.
- 16,000
- 6,005
Firmly disagree with Peter being stronger than Miles.
- 17,589
- 27,541
Wanna elaborate there?
Similar threads
- Locked
