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Marvel Comics - Thor Shaking the Realms of the World Tree
- Thread starter NaturalDestroyer
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Yeah, that’s fine with me.
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In older comics nine realms are inconsistently large. Sometimes they are depicted as continents, planets or alternate dimensions. Does it say in that specific comic nine realms are universes or something similar? Because that could just be larger planet level feat. Just asking.
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I only know of planets and universes but I think wiki accepts them as universes, Probably more consistent but idk.
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I agree that nine realms are universes, at least in the new comics. I remember in one comic (forgot the name though) when nine realms are clearly meant as planets. Even in the comic where thor pushes the weight of the nine realms Midgard is stated to be just the planet earth, and that yggdrasil contains universe.
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In my opinion, I don't really think that's necessary and it seems like it would make everything way too overly complex. I think we should just look for consistency and recency. The only time we should split cosmology is if there is actually an in-universe reason as to why, such as the destruction of the Seventh Multiverse and the creation of the Eighth.
Hellbeast
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It depends, older stuff has the Realms as planets or continents (in fact I think one had it they’re all in the same space) but newer stuff like Odin’s statements place the realms as being universes
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King in Black issue 3 2021:Thor said all were in the galaxy.
Hellbeast
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Hmm do you have the scan?
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That does not seem like convincing evidence at all.
Anyway, what, if anything, is left to do in this thread?
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Scaling to Thor at his peak. This was discussed earlier in the thread.
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Well, Ares should probably be roughly comparable to Wonder Man, but he has fought Hercules repeatedly.
The Angela character is thoroughly nasty and unlikeable in every way, and should preferably be eradicated from history, but I think that she has been portrayed as defeating Bor more easily than Thor could.
Waziria should be deleted, yes.
I think that it was the telepathic part of the blast that knocked our Hercules. Otherwise we will have to consider it as an outlier.
Sersi can probably scale from Ikaris and Gilgamesh.
The robot that Hank Pym created did not actually harm Thor, and it doesn't seem like a good feat to scale him from. For example, when written by Dan Slott, as the "scientist supreme", we should probably be able to find better preparation feats to scale from instead.
We should probably remove the scaling from Thor, and just write "Unknown with wrist-blasters" instead. It is a major outlier.
We might have to upgrade Iron Man armor model 65 to scale to Ultron. I need more information. However, we also need to adjust Ultron's second straight 2-C key downwards, as Ultron did not actually defeat The Sentry, much less at the latter's peak.
Iron Man model 16 breaking out of a force field that Thor could not escape from seems like a massive outlier, he did not actually harm the true Ultron, and the horde of Ultron drones that he did defeat were not made of Adamantium. We can probably scale him from Titania though.
I am not sure what we should do with Midnight Sun, as he doesn't scale from anybody except a held back Silver Surfer, but is nowhere near as powerful.
Jane Foster was never portrayed as anywhere near as powerful as Thor as his peak, but is in theory supposed to be comparable, so I am not sure what we should do there.
In sum total, I really think that we may have shot ourselves in the legs here, as, in addition to the above problems, quite a lot of characters, such as Ulik, do not really make any sense with 3-C or 2-C statistics, so we at the very least likely need to mention a specific extremely held back 5-B scaling tier to the footnotes in Thor's and Silver Surfer's pages.
The Angela character is thoroughly nasty and unlikeable in every way, and should preferably be eradicated from history, but I think that she has been portrayed as defeating Bor more easily than Thor could.
Waziria should be deleted, yes.
I think that it was the telepathic part of the blast that knocked our Hercules. Otherwise we will have to consider it as an outlier.
Sersi can probably scale from Ikaris and Gilgamesh.
The robot that Hank Pym created did not actually harm Thor, and it doesn't seem like a good feat to scale him from. For example, when written by Dan Slott, as the "scientist supreme", we should probably be able to find better preparation feats to scale from instead.
We should probably remove the scaling from Thor, and just write "Unknown with wrist-blasters" instead. It is a major outlier.
We might have to upgrade Iron Man armor model 65 to scale to Ultron. I need more information. However, we also need to adjust Ultron's second straight 2-C key downwards, as Ultron did not actually defeat The Sentry, much less at the latter's peak.
Iron Man model 16 breaking out of a force field that Thor could not escape from seems like a massive outlier, he did not actually harm the true Ultron, and the horde of Ultron drones that he did defeat were not made of Adamantium. We can probably scale him from Titania though.
I am not sure what we should do with Midnight Sun, as he doesn't scale from anybody except a held back Silver Surfer, but is nowhere near as powerful.
Jane Foster was never portrayed as anywhere near as powerful as Thor as his peak, but is in theory supposed to be comparable, so I am not sure what we should do there.
In sum total, I really think that we may have shot ourselves in the legs here, as, in addition to the above problems, quite a lot of characters, such as Ulik, do not really make any sense with 3-C or 2-C statistics, so we at the very least likely need to mention a specific extremely held back 5-B scaling tier to the footnotes in Thor's and Silver Surfer's pages.
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Do marvel have other realms in the galaxy apart from the 10 realms? I know realm can mean alot of things but I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
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I think he clearly means realms of Yggdrasil.
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Hmmm, I agree with this. I just re-read the "knocking back Ultron" scan, and Tony literally says the blast is only producing minimal effect.
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There is nothing suggesting this whatsoever. Read the responses in the thread
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Let's try to deal with our main tasks here please.
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I know that Ares has fought Skaar and took attacks from Doctor Doom, aka 5-B scaling (at least for DD, not sure about Skaar since his page is deleted). The Hercules part is a definite issue, but his page does mention that he is the strongest of Zeus' sons, which includes Ares, so Hercules is already supposed to scale above him.
Honestly, Angela's page is terrible. Her P&A has no sources or anything to back it up + her speed scaling to Hercules and Lifting Strength are baseless. Imo, deleting it seems like a better option
Great, thank you
Agreed
Unknown rating, I guess?
For her Thor key, we can probably axe her 5-B rating and leave her at 3-C. She has a supporting 4-A calc, so it isn't bad
For her Valkyrie key, maybe it's just me, but that doesn't really look like overpowering Thor. It is still scaling given that she is harming Thor, so if we keep it, it could just be "Varies, up to Galaxy level (Could harm Røkkva-possessed Thor)"
Alternatively, she does parry and shatter Dragonfang. Dunno much about the sword, but I know it is mainly a weapon of Brunnhilde, who has 5-B scaling. But that's about it
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Thor is indeed the protector of the 10 realms so him saying protector of all realms in the galaxy might be referring to the 10 realms but who knows.
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We really didn’t.
Ulik doesn’t even have a page?
The Hercules part shouldn’t be an issue since we consider Hercules to be a character that holds back. Ares has scaling to 5-B characters like Wonder Man and Carol Danvers, I’ll grab the scans later.
It was supposed to be deleted a long time ago.
We need actual feats of her being comparable to them though.
Agreed.
Fine.
Ultron-Pym, the version that the Model 65 actually fought, mainly has 5-B feats like fighting Rogue with Wonder Man’s powers and easily overpowering a Hulkbuster in Uncanny Avengers Vol. 3 #11. Its tier is fine.
Make him Unknown.
This, I completely agree with this.
That’s fine with me.
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Well, we might be forced to scale him to 3-C, as The Sentry had to make a great effort to rip him in half.
I personally do not mind, as we both likely cannot scale Angela properly, and I greatly dislike the character.
No problem.
Thank you.
In lack of better options, I suppose so. He is officially supposed to be "class 75" though, whatever that means in Marvel's thoroughly weird and inaccurate scaling system.
I suppose so, as she fought Odin once, but if she managed to harm the Mangog, we might have to scale her to the real Thor instead.
I think that the devil Hulk rather easily defeated her and several other Avengers during the story with the Grandmaster and the Challenger though, but may misremember.
However, Jason Aaron was all over the place. One moment Jane had serious problems against the Silver Samurai, and the next she was fighting Odin.
I suppose so, yes, but I am not certain.
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Oh, it was deleted? I suppose that is likely a good thing then.
Well, Hercules also needs to get a footnote about that he often holds back to a 5-B degree against mortals or when on Earth, although Ares is not a mortal, just usually portrayed as much weaker.
It seems like we have reached an agreement in that regard then.
Yes, and her powers are mostly based on very powerful hax rather than raw power. Somebody should investigate her feat history though. Didn't she fight Exodus evenly for example?
Thank you.
Another conclusion has been reached about this then it seems.
Okay, but then we need to create a new statistics key in Ultron's page, and also preferably remove the key that possessed and turned Tony Stark into a woman in order to fight the Sentry, Carol Danvers, and Wonder Man, as it only appeared in a single issue.
Okay. I suppose that is probably fine then, unless somebodyq finds other feats than outskilling but being easily overpowered by the Silver Surfer.
Okay. I suppose that is a better solution than currently, but again, she was all over the place.
Okay.
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Tbh I feel like Ares’ page could be deleted, because it’s pretty barebones and bad. But if we don’t want to go that route:
Ares breaks out of a hold from Wonder Man, Sentry and Carol Danvers in The Mighty Avengers #2. He knocks out an off-guard Wonder Man with a stone in Incredible Hercules #114. He harms Blue Marvel with his axe in Adam: Legend of the Blue Marvel #5.
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Honestly, I’m thinking delete. It might be easier to remake his page from scratch.
Excellence616
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Yes, Devil Hulk easily defeated Jane Foster Thor along with Hercules, Wonder Man, Rogue etc
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Avengers Vol 1 685:
- Devil Hulk trades blows with and defeats Robert Maverick Red Hulk by gamma draining (we don't have a profile for Robert Maverick)
- Devil Hulk fights Vision and crushes his head (Unknown currently, though chances are this'll be 5-B)
- Devil Hulk easily overpowers Wonder Man (5-B)
- Devil Hulk fights against Hercules and Jane Foster Thor (3-C assuming they weren't holding back)
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