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Marvel: Big Yggdrasil Downgrade, Skyfather Upgrades, and Thor Revisions

I wonder, what about silver surfer does he have any 1A feats? I think he did survive Eternity exploding or something.
 
So, does it make sense under our current Marvel standards for characters that are below Eternity to scale to infinite realities? And then have Uni Eternity upscale from that? Like from what I understand, we are currently treating destroying a reality as being the same as killing an Eternity, but I feel like that shouldn't necessarily be the case. There are lots of examples of characters that are clearly far below Eternity doing things that affect all of reality, or even many other realities, that I feel like this should work.
 
What are the staff conclusions here so far, and which staff members think that here? 🙏
 
If 1-A is accepted for Skyfather Tiers, and Celestials upscale them, and Abstracts upscale them, how far into 1-A would all these characters be? Is this something that can be listed on their profiles, like how some profiles listed how many universes Tier 2 characters scale to or how many dimensions Tier 1 characters scale to? I don't really know how "layers" work with 1-A.
 
ObberGobb said:
If 1-A is accepted for Skyfather Tiers, and Celestials upscale them, and Abstracts upscale them, how far into 1-A would all these characters be? Is this something that can be listed on their profiles, like how some profiles listed how many universes Tier 2 characters scale to or how many dimensions Tier 1 characters scale to? I don't really know how "layers" work with 1-A.
Click to expand...
Since they'd all probably scale to the standard abstracts, it'd just be baseline 1-A.

The range for stuff affecting all realities would just be baseline 1-A x infinity, or what 2-A is to Low 2-C.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Uh, so looking through the affected profiles, and I couldn't help but see that The Adversary can warp The Otherworld... Oh god.

The Adversary directly being able to warp The Otherworld may actually make High 1-A possible, but that's an entirely different can of worms.
Click to expand...
Separate CRT but this is worth noting for a separate thread...
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. If somebody summarises what needs to be evaluated here, I can ask for input help. 🙏
Click to expand...
Ok, so my points are basically

  1. Yggdrasil should scale to infinite realities. I think this would be 1-A. Some have disagreed with this, because it would theoretically make anyone who scales to Yggdrasil scale to infinite Eternities, but I disagree. There are enough feats of things scaling to infinite realities that are done by characters explicitly below Eternity that I think it has to be reconciled. Basically, I think Yggdrasil should scale to the structure of infinite realities, and then Uni Eternity should upscale from that. Alternatively, its been brought up that it could scale to just one reality, if too many people disagree with infinite. This is based on:
    1. Yggdrasil is connected to all alternate realities across the Multiverse
    2. When Enchantress poisoned Yggdrasil, and Thor stopped her, he said that he had saved all realities and universes
    3. This is supported by Hela and Mephisto being stated to cause omniversal destruction, and as I understand it, "omniverse" is currently accepted to be frequently used as a synonym for the whole multiverse by many Marvel writers
    4. Various gods have a guidebook statement of being able to destroy the Multiverse
    5. Odin and Seth's fight tore at the fabric of the Multiverse. This is accepted as just scaling to the "inner contents" of one reality right now, but I feel tearing at the fabric of the Multiverse is at least support for Multiversal potency by Skyfathers.
    6. @The_2nd_Existential_Seed listed some feats scaling to the whole Multiverse that they found. Odin would not scale to these as they are done by Celestial-tier characters, but still good support I think as they are definitely below Abstracts too
  2. The following characters would scale to 1-A based on these feats:
    1. Thor, through the feats he already has accepted. Furthermore, there are feats of him fighting on an equal footing with Hell Lords and one statement of him being more powerful than the Titans
    2. Odin. He is stated to be more powerful than every Asgardian combined, so should upscale Thor's peak. He also negated Surtur's flames that were burning Yggdrasil, and is more powerful than Hela and Mephisto.
    3. Atlas, and by extension Zeus and maybe Hercules. The Axis Mundi is the Greek form of Yggdrasil, and Atlas is linked to it and maintains it by lifting the heavens. Basically I think that "lifting the heavens" in this specific context is analogous to lifting Yggdrasil.
    4. Every character currently accepted as scaling to these characters scales to 1-A, characters who are accepted as more powerful than them, like the Abstracts, scale deeper in 1-A.
    5. Simplify some of Thor's profile, dropping the backscaling of Herald Thor feats applying to Odinforce Thor.
  3. This is the sandbox I made
 
ObberGobb said:
Ok, so my points are basically

  1. Yggdrasil should scale to infinite realities. I think this would be 1-A. Some have disagreed with this, because it would theoretically make anyone who scales to Yggdrasil scale to infinite Eternities, but I disagree. There are enough feats of things scaling to infinite realities that are done by characters explicitly below Eternity that I think it has to be reconciled. Basically, I think Yggdrasil should scale to the structure of infinite realities, and then Uni Eternity should upscale from that. Alternatively, its been brought up that it could scale to just one reality, if too many people disagree with infinite. This is based on:
    1. Yggdrasil is connected to all alternate realities across the Multiverse
    2. When Enchantress poisoned Yggdrasil, and Thor stopped her, he said that he had saved all realities and universes
    3. This is supported by Hela and Mephisto being stated to cause omniversal destruction, and as I understand it, "omniverse" is currently accepted to be frequently used as a synonym for the whole multiverse by many Marvel writers
    4. Various gods have a guidebook statement of being able to destroy the Multiverse
    5. Odin and Seth's fight tore at the fabric of the Multiverse. This is accepted as just scaling to the "inner contents" of one reality right now, but I feel tearing at the fabric of the Multiverse is at least support for Multiversal potency by Skyfathers.
    6. @The_2nd_Existential_Seed listed some feats scaling to the whole Multiverse that they found. Odin would not scale to these as they are done by Celestial-tier characters, but still good support I think as they are definitely below Abstracts too
  2. The following characters would scale to 1-Abased on these feats:
    1. Thor, through the feats he already has accepted. Furthermore, there are feats of him fighting on an equal footing with Hell Lords and one statement of him being more powerful than the Titans
    2. Odin. He is stated to be more powerful than every Asgardian combined, so should upscale Thor's peak. He also negated Surtur's flames that were burning Yggdrasil, and is more powerful than Hela and Mephisto.
    3. Atlas, and by extension Zeus and maybe Hercules. The Axis Mundi is the Greek form of Yggdrasil, and Atlas is linked to it and maintains it by lifting the heavens. Basically I think that "lifting the heavens" in this specific context is analogous to lifting Yggdrasil.
    4. Every character currently accepted as scaling to these characters scales to 1-A, characters who are accepted as more powerful than them, like the Abstracts, scale deeper in 1-A.
    5. Simplify some of Thor's profile, dropping the backscaling of Herald Thor feats applying to Odinforce Thor.
  3. This is the sandbox I made
Click to expand...
Thank you. 🙏

@Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepmeThree @Elizio33 @MarvelFanatic119 @Catzlaflame @Lightning_XXI @Deagonx @Eseseso @LuciferX @Excellence616 @ByAsura @Emirp sumitpo @Quantu @IdiosyncraticLawyer @PrinceofPein @LordTracer @ProfectusInfinity @M3X_2.0 @Maverick_Zero_X @Dark-Carioca @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @FinePoint @SamanPatou @StarterPack

Are any of you willing to help out here please?
 
PrinceofPein said:
Are there any counter arguments? if there are a summary of it will be nice also
Click to expand...
@Ultima_Reality thinks that Yggdrasil should wait, since an issue of Immortal Thor mentioned the "crown of creation" in relation to it. I disagree, since I don't think there is any indication that will ever actually be elaborated on. If it someday comes up again we can revisit it, but for now I don't think we should wait and indefinite amount of time for something that may never come up again.

@ProfectusInfinity thinks that this wouldn't work, as it would make Skyfathers scale infinitely above Universal Abstracts.

@Accelerated_Evolution said "One of the main bases of the new 1-A Tiering is that characters on a lower-level of existence interacting with the 1-A structures (As long as it ins't with the gelp of a 1-A being) would disqualify the structure as being 1-A in the first place"
 
Excellence616 said:
Not really. despite the fact that he can fight against Skyfather/Galactus level, he isn't comparable to them
Click to expand...
Please keep in mind that we should not blindly scale every character to everybody they have ever fought, as Marvel Comics narratively runs on characters regularly punching far above their actual weight classes.
 
I do not think that Thanos should be 1-A, no. His power source is the Gary Stu-force that allows him to punch far above his actual demonstrated power levels.
 
I think Thanos scale to Skyfather level is a valid scaling, but there is so much that goes into it and its so contentious that it should get its own dedicated thread some other other
 
So what do people think about Yggdrasil scaling to 1-A? At this point I suppose it's best to just have it scale to all of Earth-616 rather than all realities. What do people think about Thor, Odin, Storm, Atlas, Hercules, and Enchantress scaling to it?
 
Can somebody remind us regarding what needs to be evaluated here with a relatively easy to understand explanation post please? 🙏
 
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