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And maybe you posted the wrong scan here, because I just don’t see Doom’s armor warp in any significant way
Doom himself says that his armor had to undergo self-repair procedures after Ben beat him around.
Do we not list the Carol holdbacc on the files? She has a statement where she holds back her strength unless it is a massive wartime scenario :V
Can you link said statement?
 
But Mangog has effortlessly stomped Ulik with a single blow, She-Hulk also stomped him, and he consistently loses to everybody, with the handbooks stating that he is only as strong as pre-power-up Wonder Man. I think that tier 5-B seems more reasonable.
Meh I mean I don’t mind THAT much, it’s just that means alot of Asgardians may need to be readdressed in scaling, since when I originally did the rewrite I listed all of them 4-B assuming no non-PIS antifeats
Also, Groot has no feats of anywhere near this scale.
yeah Groot shouldn’t be.
Doom himself says that his armor had to undergo self-repair procedures after Ben beat him around.
Again though you need to visibly warp the armor to scale, harming components through it is wayyy lower.

It’s the difference between caving in a skull vs. giving a concussion, to get 6-B off Doom you have to scrap-metal his suit
Can you link said statement?
Lemme try find it, it was in the OG holdbacc revision sandbox
 
But Mangog has effortlessly stomped Ulik with a single blow, She-Hulk also stomped him, and he consistently loses to everybody, with the handbooks stating that he is only as strong as pre-power-up Wonder Man. I think that tier 5-B seems more reasonable.
Well, yeah, because mangog is one of the strongest Thor villains.
Also, Groot has no feats of anywhere near this scale.
Yes. But just delete the file. Its not that good ATM
 


Isn’t the most direct but you get the gist of it, she won’t ever go for fatal attacks on her opponents in most scenarios, and honestly given context, oneshots either.



She can also hold back her strength enough to give Spider-Man a decent couple of hits.

I’ll write up my variant of the Captain Marvel scaling, basically no one should scale to her unless she’s getting immensely overpowered or they’re matching her when very pissed, which knocks off half the list, no?

Also to address this:

Tracer you keep bringing this file up for scaling so damn often despite me telling you it’s immensely flawed, I am genuinely just going to ask for its deletion.

It uses dogshit presumptions for Gravitron’s powers, their relation to AP and give far more importance to his self-amping over his actual durability.

You can just LOOK through the scans given or some of the feats, and tell it’s immensely wrong. We’ll remake the file some time later, but currently I’m just gonna get it deleted
 
Tracer you keep bringing this file up for scaling so damn often despite me telling you it’s immensely flawed, I am genuinely just going to ask for its deletion.
I don’t recall talking above Graviton before, but I would think it’s extremely obvious that I was just going off the profile justifications for the sandbox.
 
I don’t recall talking above Graviton before, but I would think it’s extremely obvious that I was just going off the profile justifications for the sandbox.
You brought him up in the Iron Man reworks.

I mean you shouldn’t only go off of profile justifications alone though, especially for lacking ones :/
 
Well, during Fabian Nicieza's Thunderbolts run, Graviton's powers increased to the point that he could easily defeat most superheroes on the planet at the same time. He should definitely be far above High 6-C.
 
Tracer is just trying to help out. There is no need to get upset at him.
 
Well, during Fabian Nicieza's Thunderbolts run, Graviton's powers increased to the point that he could easily defeat most superheroes on the planet at the same time. He should definitely be far above High 6-C.
That’s wayyy later though, our file isn’t even keyed and recognise they null this relatively quick afterwards the run, where Gravitron is reverted to just be a standard threat

Again the file should just be deleted, Gravitron‘s powerset is shown to be IMMENSELY unconventional, and the profile does a REALLY poor job at showcasing this, it just reduced him to generic blaster dude :V
 
Anyways off of scaling to Carol & Friends crowd, think only Star, Marvelbuster (downscale/maybe not at all) and Venom should scale, right?

Abomination resides in the weird overlap so may have to do that after Confluctor completes his Wonder Man stuff
 
Anyway, is Ulik really currently listed as 3-C along with Groot? That seems way too high for them. They are nowhere near as powerful as other characters placed at this level. I could see the Thing defeating either of them, and Wonder Man definitely could.
Ulik survived the explosion that destroyed Mjolnir along with Thor.
 
That’s wayyy later though, our file isn’t even keyed and recognise they null this relatively quick afterwards the run, where Gravitron is reverted to just be a standard threat

Again the file should just be deleted, Gravitron‘s powerset is shown to be IMMENSELY unconventional, and the profile does a REALLY poor job at showcasing this, it just reduced him to generic blaster dude :V
Okay, and you would not be willing to clean it up instead?
Ulik survived the explosion that destroyed Mjolnir along with Thor.
Okay. Given the context of that he constantly easily gets beaten, it seems like an outlier to me though.
 
Okay. That would need to be explained in his page though.
 
Okay. What do the rest of you think?
 
Okay. That would need to be explained in his page though.
"Refrain from scaling others to this character, as they're portrayed far weaker in practice than what they're contextually meant to be, due to Marvel's lax standards for use of relatively minor characters in stories. As such, they possess many antifeats which are disregarded on this profile to represent a cohesive scaling with respect to the greater verse."

Something to this effect should be a note on his file.
 
I don’t mind it being deleted.
Okay. I will do so then, unless a "Variable between High 6-C and 3-C" tier would be acceptable.
"Refrain from scaling others to this character, as they're portrayed far weaker in practice than what they're contextually meant to be, due to Marvel's lax standards for use of relatively minor characters in stories. As such, they possess many antifeats which are disregarded on this profile to represent a cohesive scaling with respect to the greater verse."

Something to this effect should be a note on his file.
That seems fine to me.
Alternatively we can try list them Unknown
Or give him a "Variable between High 6-C and 3-C depending on the story", if that is acceptable, as I find the "holding back" definition too dishonest regarding why we really use this practice.
 
...I am confused, who are we talking about?

Gravitron is to be deleted, and Ulik is to either be given a note and remain at 3-C, or be listed Unknown, that is what I'm saying.
 
Also Ulik has every reason to be 3-C. Like Terrax, he just jobs more than he should. Also losing to Mangog is no brainer. He is by far one of the most powerful Thor characters.


Also he doesn't have or need high 6C. He has no reason to other than PIS.
 
Or give him a "Variable between High 6-C and 3-C depending on the story", if that is acceptable, as I find the "holding back" definition too dishonest regarding why we really use this practice.
There must be reasons that justify a variable level, in this case there are not, they are just the inconsistencies between the scriptwriters, if it is going to be left as variable for this reason then all the characters must also have a variable level.
 
Does Ulik have enough jobber moments to justify a note? Because if he frequently loses to "weak" characters, then I think it makes sense. But if it is just Bleeding Edge, then I don't think it should be added.
 
...I am confused, who are we talking about?

Gravitron is to be deleted, and Ulik is to either be given a note and remain at 3-C, or be listed Unknown, that is what I'm saying.
I meant that I prefer if we switch to somewhat variable tiers, rather than the "holding back" rationale, as it seems more honest, and it also works better for characters like Ulik and Graviton, who usually differ a lot from writer to writer.
 
About wonder man, i can't find any varied statements or something from any of the RTs but I do remember that he tends to get stronger with each resurrection - West Coast Avengers Vol 1 3. That is shown through his feats often. His first resurrection was around the 80s, second around 90s, and third in 2010s. Current version so far is the strongest one - at least durability wise - but he is a pacifist so hard to scale.


During the 90s - Wonder Man Vol 2 25 to be more specific - he absorbrd the power of eight other ionic people and it seemed to have amped him.


I would read his shit and separate him properly.... But 700 issues are too much. So probably not.
 
I meant that I prefer if we switch to somewhat variable tiers, rather than the "holding back" rationale, as it seems more honest, and it also works better for characters like Ulik and Graviton, who usually differ a lot from writer to writer.
...how is it more honest? And the logic you're giving snowballs into "Varies, 9-C to 3-C Spider-Man, depending on the writer"

It just makes Marvel ratings completely irrelevant or made up, OR just allow outliers to be listed. Thor and Surfer holding back isn't even dishonest, basically EVERY SINGLE MAJOR WRITER repeats the exact same narrative, we have NEVER made up "holding back" for a character, hell we've rejected it altogether for characters like Namor, or the Thing, or lower tiers.

Like it's a really bad idea to dismiss characters holding back, EVEN WORSE to further trivialize over SOME contradictory feats.

Also Gravitron doesn't vary writer to writer, you're oversimplifying it, he gets a power progression.
 
Gilgamesh lifting the Earth. It’s on his profile.
Ok, I have many issues with this then. When did he ever do this? That's not something that can just happen. The guy could be on Thor's level for all we know, do we explicitly know that there is no silly "holding back" for him for others to scale to 5-B?
 
That is not what I asked. Marvel can be stupid for scaling, so I fear he could hold back, I asked if we explicitly know he doesn't, and if nobody showed that he doesn't then that's not the same. I appeal to knowing full well the character given his larger relevance for scaling.
 
How exactly do you expect it to be proven that he doesn’t hold back when there’s been no evidence that suggests he does?
 
I don't expect it to be proven, I expect someone who knows the character to reply to what I said.
 
Nah, Gilgamesh doesn't hold back. Especially around that era when he was quite evil - more than usual and whatnot. And a few of the Eternals fought him then.
 
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