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...how is it more honest? And the logic you're giving snowballs into "Varies, 9-C to 3-C Spider-Man, depending on the writer"

It just makes Marvel ratings completely irrelevant or made up, OR just allow outliers to be listed. Thor and Surfer holding back isn't even dishonest, basically EVERY SINGLE MAJOR WRITER repeats the exact same narrative, we have NEVER made up "holding back" for a character, hell we've rejected it altogether for characters like Namor, or the Thing, or lower tiers.

Like it's a really bad idea to dismiss characters holding back, EVEN WORSE to further trivialize over SOME contradictory feats.

Also Gravitron doesn't vary writer to writer, you're oversimplifying it, he gets a power progression.
I agree completely. The Varies tier is only for characters that actually vary in power, not for ones that are just inconsistent because comic book logic.
Okay. I seem to be outvoted then.
 
Eternals kinda are, tbh. They're downscaled from standard heralds, in context to their verse placements, with Gilgamesh being physically the strongest.
That is correct, yes.

Btw: Should we still call the physically strongest Eternal Gilgamesh, or just The Forgotten One, given that another character much closer to the actual mythical Gilgamesh showed up in Hercules comic books some year ago?
 
He was apparently retconned as not being the original Marvel Comics version though, similarly to how Thena is not the same person as Athena, and Zuras is not the same person as Zeus.
 
I think we can just have both profiles named Gilgamesh, like how DC has like, three characters named Cain.
 
Okay. No problem. We do not have a page for the Marvel version of the classic Gilgamesh yet though.
 
Okay. Let's return to the regular discussion here then.
 
3-C from what feats? Literally not a single one belong there. And contextual placement don't apply to them. In case of Terrax and Ulii, they legit has feats of that level, whereas these guys don't.

If we wanna go down that route, literally everyone of the high 6cs can belong on 3-C because they are all considered as op as Thor and Hulk and Hercules.
 
3-C from what feats? Literally not a single one belong there.
Because you say so?
If we wanna go down that route, literally everyone of the high 6cs can belong on 3-C because they are all considered as op as Thor and Hulk and Hercules.
They never have.

Anti-Man and Blue Marvel literally get stated by Sentry to be the strongest ******* he fought, Gilgamesh gets stated repeatedly to be = Thor and has no antifeats.

Only wonk ones are the rest of the Eternals and Captain Marvel, which should just remain High 6-C
 
Oh yeah, Blue Marvel and Anti Man at tier 2 and 1. Very based.


And yeah, they do have anti feats. The same issue is literally the biggest anti feat in his story. He literally gets his ass kicked by Ares and carol. Very 3-C of him.
 
Oh yeah, Blue Marvel and Anti Man at tier 2 and 1. Very based.
Slippery slope.
And yeah, they do have anti feats. The same issue is literally the biggest anti feat in his story. He literally gets his ass kicked by Ares and carol. Very 3-C of him.
Ares can very well be subject to upgrades, and Carol also holds certain mechanics that can very well be 3-C
 
Uhhh?

Anyway, so how about him stalemating Sentry at his absolutely weakest then, hmm? Or being weaker than king Hyperion who just slightly upscales from the current high 6-Cs (Hyperion 712)?
 
No, it is pretty important here. Its like giving batman 4-B for punching Superman with Kryptonite.

And so? Literally every single feat of his doesn't even come close to those 3-C. And since we do slap such high tiers on alt realities? For all we know, they were probably street tier.

Look at his feats, at every turn he is comparable to the current High 6-Cs do you not see an issue with this?
 
I agree about that King Hyperion killing every superhero in his universe is a major feat.
 
What if he did it through prep time? Or used someone else to kill him - which is pretty in character for him? Or just dumped them in another dimension? Or through a random weapon? Too many uncertainties and anti feats to consider it anything above his current rating - 5-B at best if the 5b thing go through, which i am personally starting to doubt more and more.
 
From what I vaguely recall, we saw King Hyperion stand beside a pile of dead superheroes in a flashback in the Exiles comic book, but it is best if somebody can investigate.
 
From what I vaguely recall, we saw King Hyperion stand beside a pile of dead superheroes in a flashback in the Exiles comic book, but it is best if somebody can investigate.
Yeah, Thor and Hulk, and a few herald tiers. And we didn't even see the fight. Plus he had people like gambit and them lot with him, who can negate Dura and stuff like that.

Killing Thor and Hulk of an alt reality should never ever be even considered. They get killed every Wednesday by some low tiers.
 
That is correct, yes. The statistics of characters differ a lot between alternate reality versions.
 
I would still appreciate your help here. It is very important to get this properly done, and not half-finished.
4-B scaling was already a massive Gordian's knot of issues. 3-C is just an even worse and bigger Gordian's knot.

Unless we decide what actually qualifies for serious Thor or whatever we're not going to get anywhere in my view.
Hyperion stand beside a pile of dead superheroes in a flashback in the Exiles comic book, but it is best if somebody can investigate.
He did, but King Hyperion also killed Galactus. Its questionable how strong those versions of the characters are. Especially when a nerfed 616 Juggernaut and Blue Marvel can fight him in relatively even battles.
 
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4-B scaling was already a massive Gordian's knot of issues. 3-C is just an even worse and bigger Gordian's knot.

Unless we decide what actually qualifies for serious Thor or whatever we're not going to get anywhere in my view.
Well, that just makes it extra important to make a serious effort with trying our best to figure out how to properly scale the characters.
 
So should we let Confluctor apply his suggested revisions for the moment, in lack of better options, and then work on adjusting the details?
 
Thank you for the evaluation.
 
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